Grow your own PNS!

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Hey @Kenneth Wingerter

I am interested in growing my own Rhodopseudomonas palustris. I see you sell the homegrow kit but what about for subsequent batches? Do you sell the growth medium as a standalone product? Or is there something readily available we can use?

We only sell the complete kit (i.e., no replacement media). The reason for this is that the media are by far the most expensive part of the kit in terms of both material and labor; for example, to ensure consistency, every single ingredient down to the vitamins and trace elements are precisely measured individually. The cube itself is not especially pricey, but should be replaced often anyway for two reasons: (1) The heat exposure weakens them over time, and (2) reusing the cubes and especially the spigot present significant biosecurity challenges. Because we guarantee success with these kits, we must be sure that clean, new equipment is used for every batch.

Not to say that the cubes can't be reused for other things; they're great for storing RO water or mixing kalk, for example.

 

[shakygator]

Thanks for the response @Kenneth Wingerter

While I have your attention, I hope you don't mind if I throw out another question or two real quick.

I was interested in culturing my own PNS because the system I am dosing it with is 200+ gallons. And that is one of my 3 systems. The costs to follow a daily or bi-daily dosing of 200ml+ would be way too high. I could culture my own with the kit but according to my math that still only gets me about a month or two of dosing at max levels.

Now on to my question: Is there any benefit to micro-dosing? Let's say, 1ml per 10g? As I understand the bacteria are going to multiply anyways so a continued dosing should help establish/sustain bacteria populations? Or would I be better off dosing at recommended levels initially and then just letting their populations increase over time? I also have a bottle of substrate sauce that I'm using to soak some marinepure balls and then re-introducing to my sumps.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Yes, the 1.25 ml/gal/day dosing recommendation is for using this product as a live food. Smaller doses are way better of course than using none at all, at least in terms of providing a source of nutrition to your corals. For bioremediation, on the other hand, it's hard to say in each instance how much is needed for a particular application (to reduce phosphate concentration by some specific amount, for example) because every system is different. Most notably, every microbiome is different; this matters because competition appears to be a big factor in determining whether or not these bacteria establish large, permanent populations in any one particular closed system.

You're on the right track by introducing the bacteria directly to an appropriate (i.e., anaerobic) biomedium such as the MarinePure. If your aim is to 'seed' a system, my recommendation for dosing would be different than it would be for feeding. In this case, a single large dose is preferable to many small ones. This is simply because a large number of recruits is more likely to overwhelm potential competitors. For example, a few cells cannot release enough antibiotic to inhibit a nearby competitor, though a large number can release enough (that is, increase the concentration to a lethal level) to create a so-called 'zone of inhibition' into which they can themselves grow.

Hope that helps!

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

How to Dose the PNS Products

It’s totally understandable if you have a few questions about dosing the PNS (purple non-sulfur) bacteria-based products PNS ProBio, PNS Substrate Sauce and PNS YelloSno. For one, they’re all unusual products and it’s likely that you haven’t worked with anything like them before. Also, as with...

www.hydrospace.store

 

[shakygator]

You're on the right track by introducing the bacteria directly to an appropriate (i.e., anaerobic) biomedium such as the MarinePure. If your aim is to 'seed' a system, my recommendation for dosing would be different than it would be for feeding. In this case, a single large dose is preferable to many small ones.

Thanks again for the detailed response.

I'm actually trying to do both, really. One of my systems is over 10 years old where I am 1) fighting Dinos, 2) trying to ensure a healthy biome exists (and persists), and 3) act as a food source for my corals. I've had to heavily dose N/P the last year as this system was ULNS and likely the cause of my Dinos, so nutrient reduction is not my goal here. I have finally sustained N/P levels but the Dinos persist.

In another newer system I have struggled keeping stable, I want to seed the system as well as hit bullet points 2/3 from above. It's a nem tank so I'm not sure there is much benefit to being a food source, in that case.

A little off topic but I also have a pond I'm considering adding it to. Although I've had no issues there with anything specifically. (yes I realize there is a different species for fw)

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Thanks again for the detailed response.

I'm actually trying to do both, really. One of my systems is over 10 years old where I am 1) fighting Dinos, 2) trying to ensure a healthy biome exists (and persists), and 3) act as a food source for my corals. I've had to heavily dose N/P the last year as this system was ULNS and likely the cause of my Dinos, so nutrient reduction is not my goal here. I have finally sustained N/P levels but the Dinos persist.

In another newer system I have struggled keeping stable, I want to seed the system as well as hit bullet points 2/3 from above. It's a nem tank so I'm not sure there is much benefit to being a food source, in that case.

A little off topic but I also have a pond I'm considering adding it to. Although I've had no issues there with anything specifically. (yes I realize there is a different species for fw)

PNS ProBio (Rhodopseudomonas palustris) is great for ponds. Its ability to degrade cellulose makes it especially useful for breaking down leaf litter, lawn clippings, dead algae, etc. I actually recall seeing this species in some ponds products for that purpose years ago working at a water garden nursery. These bacteria confer similar benefits to planted aquaria (or a refugium for that matter). https://www.hydrospace.store/post/r-palustris-reliably-consumes-plant-macroalgal-rubbish Just one thing, these bacteria don't grow well in cool water, so wait until the pond water temp is at least in the mid 70s before adding it.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

By the way, there's a Mothers Day sale (12% off) on the PNS HomeGro kits running through May 14 (use code: MOTHERSDAY12).

Was originally just for site subscribers, but thought I'd share it here too.

 

[ravi197699]

I am planning to buy the kit, I have 800 gallon total volume system (tank and sump), what is the correct dose to start with since I will be dosing with dosing pump, I have marine pure bricks that are in one section of the sump stacked up, just want to check how many of you are dosing?

 

[minus9]

I am planning to buy the kit, I have 800 gallon total volume system (tank and sump), what is the correct dose to start with since I will be dosing with dosing pump, I have marine pure bricks that are in one section of the sump stacked up, just want to check how many of you are dosing?

You'll have to use a stirrer in order to use a doser. You need to shake it or stir it before use.

 

[ravi197699]

You'll have to use a stirrer in order to use a doser. You need to shake it or stir it before use.

thank you for reply, this should be dosed daily, best to dose during day or night after lights out?

 

[minus9]

thank you for reply, this should be dosed daily, best to dose during day or night after lights out?

I usually dose in the morning after lights turn on. I think it depends on what you're trying to accomplish by using it? If you're using it as food, then split the recommended dose up over the course of a couple days and you can dose a couple times a week, but if you're aiming for nutrient/detritus reduction, then you can dose more frequently (but I still reduce the dose no matter what). I found when I use it, it's best to dose every other day or two days at half the amount. You can also feed/use Yello Sno the following day after dosing Probio, as these two products compliment each other (as food and a vitamin B source for PNS bacteria). Regardless, just monitor N&P after dosing. Regardless of what I'm dosing, I always, always ease into dosing (insert what product you're dosing). Small incremental changes are best.

 

[Projects with Sam]

My PNS is always ready for dosing in the morning.



... i cant...
*removed myself from the thread*

 

[ravi197699]

I usually dose in the morning after lights turn on. I think it depends on what you're trying to accomplish by using it? If you're using it as food, then split the recommended dose up over the course of a couple days and you can dose a couple times a week, but if you're aiming for nutrient/detritus reduction, then you can dose more frequently (but I still reduce the dose no matter what). I found when I use it, it's best to dose every other day or two days at half the amount. You can also feed/use Yello Sno the following day after dosing Probio, as these two products compliment each other (as food and a vitamin B source for PNS bacteria). Regardless, just monitor N&P after dosing. Regardless of what I'm dosing, I always, always ease into dosing (insert what product you're dosing). Small incremental changes are best.

Thank you for your suggestion, I will order the PNS kit and get started, just watched video on how to cook the bacteria,