Growth led vs aquarium led

[C4ctus99]

I’m working on a budget build currently for a 75g and will hopefully spend less than $1,800 on the whole setup including livestock for right now be we’ll see. Definitely an interesting read though and I’ve been wondering why aquarium lights cost so much

 

[MoshJosh]

Not really. You’re assuming diode count is the only thing that creates cost into a light in that scenario.

So far, I have been able to find which diodes almost every big name is using. Even if the company doesn’t list them, others do.

I'm not saying that at all, just that IF a grow light and reef light are using the same diodes (IF), then why the huge cost difference. Frankly I am not an electrician/lighting expert, there may very well be other components that play a much bigger role in both the effectiveness and cost of reef lights. . . That said, as a lay person, it seems to me that grow lights and reef lights seem to use very similar technologies, and in some cases the same light emitting diodes, however, grow lights seem to be much cheaper. Obviously the reef lights are going to have specific advantages when it comes to lighting a reef tank, that said, when it comes to pure light output and coral growth is the cost really justifiable (for cheapskates like me). And if a grow light company switched out some of those red diodes for blue ones. . . at nearly the same cost, how would they compare to reef specific LEDs.

 

[rtparty]

They arent using even the same type of diode. Horticultural lights now tend to use very efficient but low powered leds without added optics and a whole lot of them, while aquarium leds use much higher powered leds with optics. Also it comes down to light penetration through the water collumn and not just light output.

The big names in our hobby started adopting the lots of low powered LEDs a generation or two back. Lensed LEDs should be a thing of the past once people realize how bad they are

 

[Dan_P]

Good brands for aquarium led cost 3-6 times more than quality growth led full spectrum for plant for commercial purposes.
The best diodes come from companies like Samsung and Osram and they all use the same diodes.

I don’t get it.

Companies like Spider Farmer, AC Infinity, ViparSpectra, Vivosun and and Mars Hydro only cost a fraction compared to Orphek, EcoTech Marine, Neptune Systems, Kessil and Philips.

It’s not logical.

It is capitalism!

i bet that I could grow coral and enjoy them with full spectrum plant LED grow lights. I have those type of LED grow lights, I just need to find the time to prove my point. Of course proving that we are getting ripped off isn’t a very motivating reason :)

 

[dedragon]

The big names in our hobby started adopting the lots of low powered LEDs a generation or two back. Lensed LEDs should be a thing of the past once people realize how bad they are

The 2 bigger ones doing this are ati straton and neptune sky, but I would still say they are relatively high to mid powered leds. These leds are not being driven at sub 1w like most horticultural lighting is. Even ATI moved to using reflectors in their newer straton pro

 

[C4ctus99]

I'm not saying that at all, just that IF a grow light and reef light are using the same diodes (IF), then why the huge cost difference. Frankly I am not an electrician/lighting expert, there may very well be other components that play a much bigger role in both the effectiveness and cost of reef lights. . . That said, as a lay person, it seems to me that grow lights and reef lights seem to use very similar technologies, and in some cases the same light emitting diodes, however, grow lights seem to be much cheaper. Obviously the reef lights are going to have specific advantages when it comes to lighting a reef tank, that said, when it comes to pure light output and coral growth is the cost really justifiable (for cheapskates like me). And if a grow light company switched out some of those red diodes for blue ones. . . at nearly the same cost, how would they compare to reef specific LEDs.

I am an electrician… and that’s an electrical engineer question :face-with-tears-of-joy:

 

[MoshJosh]

I am an electrician… and that’s an electrical engineer question :face-with-tears-of-joy:

Hey still a leg up on me!!!

 

[Impetus]

It is capitalism!

i bet that I could grow coral and enjoy them with full spectrum plant LED grow lights. I have those type of LED grow lights, I just need to find the time to prove my point. Of course proving that we are getting ripped off isn’t a very motivating reason :)

Dont tell anyone but I never had an aquarium and Im just doing my research.

We are going to build a house and I want a 300g build into the wall.

This just amaze me as a complete outsider.

 

[C4ctus99]

Dont tell anyone but I never had an aquarium and Im just doing my research.

We are going to build a house and I want a 300g build into the wall.

This just amaze me as a complete outsider.

Go big or go home! Or big and home…

 

[mjw011689]

Its all photosynthesis. Plants and corals use the same sun.
Light is a matter of spread, PAR and spectrum.

The only difference i see between growth light and aquarium light is that reef nerds have a love for the blue spectrum. This has nothing to do with photosynthesis but more a fashion thing. Full spectrum is the best for photosynthesis and a more natural light.

The more I dig into it the more Im convinced the brands within the aquarium industry are selling hocus pocus. Most of the top brands dont even write what diodes they use and there is not even a comparison of best PAR for the dollar.

Wow…

What to do?
https://viparspectra.eu/collections/ks-series/products/viparspectra-ks3000-300w-led-grow-light
Or some of the otter brands I mentioned in my first post.

Tell this to the COUNTLESS people using primarily blues in their reef tanks and getting excellent growth. You can want a cheap viparspectra to be a great light all you want, but just because it’s “full spectrum” doesn’t mean it’s all usable or beneficial spectrum. Run a ton of whites and reds and greens… report back with how much algae you’ve grown, plus the lack of color in those browned out corals. Are good lights too expensive? Absolutely, but I’m personally not going to design a cheaper version myself, and i can tell you a TON of people gladly pay extra to be able to have the app base and controllability that all the name brands give you. I have the viparspectra 165 reef light currently, and it allows on/off controllability, and adjustability on 2 channels. That’s it. Does it grow stuff? Meh, mildly. Color of corals? Hot garbage until I turned the white channel all but off, at which point the growth maintained the same.

I’ve come to view the term “full spectrum” as completely vague and misleading marketing. I would also highly recommend watching some of the videos put out by BRS and others that show a ton of proven data that coral do not need the whites/red/green, and pretty much only NEED the blues

 

[Impetus]

Tell this to the COUNTLESS people using primarily blues in their reef tanks and getting excellent growth. You can want a cheap viparspectra to be a great light all you want, but just because it’s “full spectrum” doesn’t mean it’s all usable or beneficial spectrum. Run a ton of whites and reds and greens… report back with how much algae you’ve grown, plus the lack of color in those browned out corals. Are good lights too expensive? Absolutely, but I’m personally not going to design a cheaper version myself, and i can tell you a TON of people gladly pay extra to be able to have the app base and controllability that all the name brands give you. I have the viparspectra 165 reef light currently, and it allows on/off controllability, and adjustability on 2 channels. That’s it. Does it grow stuff? Meh, mildly. Color of corals? Hot garbage until I turned the white channel all but off, at which point the growth maintained the same.

I’ve come to view the term “full spectrum” as completely vague and misleading marketing. I would also highly recommend watching some of the videos put out by BRS and others that show a ton of proven data that coral do not need the whites/red/green, and pretty much only NEED the blues

Ok. You show me a distribution of PAR from a marine led company that is remotely close to Spider Farmer, AC Infinity, ViparSpectra, Vivosun and Mars Hydro and also come even close to $0.50/µmol then we talk.

Until then your tales of countless people are just hearsay and not the least bit scientific.

I cant wait for the marine light industry to come out with the next edition that sync the light to music from the 80’s and create voltage in the tank to move the fish in the beat of the music.
Just like all the blue light.. Pffft. Its fashion - not science.

 

[C4ctus99]

If you’re doing that big of a tank and have decent sunlight for most of the year, you can probably do what one guy did and just use natural sunlight, I’ll find the thread and link it

Edit:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/our-400-gallon-in-wall-natural-sun-lit-reef.93875/

 

[Impetus]

If you’re doing that big of a tank and have decent sunlight for most of the year, you can probably do what one guy did and just use natural sunlight, I’ll find the thread and link it

It wont have any sunlight. Most of the DT will be in the technical room without windows.
Heating will through the sump with floor heating and a zone to control it. Sunlight will make it hard to control the temperature.

 

[C4ctus99]

Gotcha, I’m in Florida so everything is hot anyway :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

I don’t have the money to buy fancy lights so I got a used t5 fixture and retrofitted it for my first tank. 2 ATI bulbs that came with it (blue+ and actinic) and threw in two warm bulbs cause the blue messes with my eyes. Algae showed up, but didn’t become an uncontrollable mess. I did break it down though and it is a quarantine tank right now while I set up a 75g. Definitely going to look at grow light LEDs though, either that or build my own t5 fixtures

 

[Impetus]

Its impressive what he did with the solar light….
I live in Denmark, Scandinavia. I rains 9 months of the year and hail the last 3. Almost :)

I personally prefer T5. The spectrum is wider and the light is nice.
I think its like records and CD’s. CD’s won that battle. Led will too. Simple because of the cost.

 

[TokenReefer]

Surely alot of the cost from the top brands comes from the infrastructure (overhead) built up around the lights and not just at the manufacturing level..

 

[Reign1]

You must be thinking about the old versions of ViparSpectra. They were still growth led.

Its getting away from the point, though. The point being that led for aquarium cost so much money for very few diodes compared to growth led and the fact that the producers of led for aquarium dont write what diodes they use.

I see a lot of talk here about cheap copies. That is also missing the point because the bottom line is the number of diodes, who manifactors the diodes and the assembly quality.

If blue is more pleasing for your eye or that you cant live without 11 pre programmed moonlight settings then go for it. What im takling about is cost/benifit.

.. man I really like you rocking the boat and asking the hard questions .. from being a plant and aquarium nerd yes I do totally agree .. Why are reef LED’s more expensive than grow lights ?
I would suspect that alot of it has to do w/ cost associated w/ components needed to control and dim all channels , cost associated w/ application development, and finally customer support.. now that one company owns most of the reef product lines I expect the prices to keep going up .. all in all yes why are radions almost $1k when they may in fact could be 600-700?
greed I tell you ..
rocking my MARs light in the garage ..

 

[Tathamet]

Lol I do feel like reef LEDs are over priced for what they are but I still buy them because I can’t be bothered to build my own.

I assume the controllers on them bring them up a bit in price. And secondly because the reefing hobby isn’t as big as the horticultural hobby. I’m sure reef led manufacturers don’t even order diode quantities at fraction of what grow light companies do in a year so they probably end up paying way more than a growth light company would for the parts.

ive got an extra mars hydro sp3000 (4ft long) after downgrading my tent to a 2x4 after moving. Wish I had a tank large enough to throw it on lol. It would work nicely for a high light planted tank that’s for sure. I was getting around 1300 par at 21” above the canopy at 100% power with these things last I checked. That’s even too much light for the plants haha (without adding CO2 anyway).

 

[Reign1]

Color spectrums, wattage, depth penetration and type of diodes is what I look for which is why I use Orpheks.
Alot depends on height above water, blue spectrum and the PAR compared to natural lighting.
Ive seen Vivarspectra on various tanks which blow away lights like radion -Orphek-Photons with results of coral growth and color

I have been doing my research lately as about to get another fixture for my 30” cube .. I am now leaning toward the Ophek looks like I can get different lens options on Atlantik. Do you think one would cover that space of 30”?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have been doing my research lately as about to get another fixture for my 30” cube .. I am now leaning toward the Ophek looks like I can get different lens options on Atlantik. Do you think one would cover that space of 30”?

Absolutely yes and most are 5wt diodes
Either Atlantik v4 or icon