Growth led vs aquarium led

[Impetus]

Good brands for aquarium led cost 3-6 times more than quality growth led full spectrum for plant for commercial purposes.
The best diodes come from companies like Samsung and Osram and they all use the same diodes.

I don’t get it.

Companies like Spider Farmer, AC Infinity, ViparSpectra, Vivosun and and Mars Hydro only cost a fraction compared to Orphek, EcoTech Marine, Neptune Systems, Kessil and Philips.

It’s not logical.

 

[blaxsun]

Yes, but corals aren't plants. May also have something to do with the harsher (salt) environment. We all wish our LED lighting was less, but what's a person to do...?

 

[Sleeping Giant]

Good brands for aquarium led cost 3-6 times more than quality growth led full spectrum for plant for commercial purposes.
The best diodes come from companies like Samsung and Osram and they all use the same diodes.

I don’t get it.

Companies like Spider Farmer, AC Infinity, ViparSpectra, Vivosun and and Mars Hydro only cost a fraction compared to Orphek, EcoTech Marine, Neptune Systems, Kessil and Philips.

It’s not logical.

buy @noopsyche best led and price for aquarium lighting right now.

 

[Impetus]

Yes, but corals aren't plants. May also have something to do with the harsher (salt) environment. We all wish our LED lighting was less, but what's a person to do...?

Its all photosynthesis. Plants and corals use the same sun.
Light is a matter of spread, PAR and spectrum.

The only difference i see between growth light and aquarium light is that reef nerds have a love for the blue spectrum. This has nothing to do with photosynthesis but more a fashion thing. Full spectrum is the best for photosynthesis and a more natural light.

The more I dig into it the more Im convinced the brands within the aquarium industry are selling hocus pocus. Most of the top brands dont even write what diodes they use and there is not even a comparison of best PAR for the dollar.

Wow…

What to do?

ViparSpectra KS3000 320W LED Grow Light

We Promise Be shipped Within 1 Business Day & 3-8 Business Days free shipping. 30 Days No-Hassle refund & exchange if any lights stop working. 2 years warranty for all of our products since the date of purchase. No Sales Tax & Lowest Price Guarantee. SPECIFICATIONS Actual Power Draw: 320W±3% at...

viparspectra.eu

Or some of the otter brands I mentioned in my first post.

 

[Impetus]

buy @noopsyche best led and price for aquarium lighting right now.

Thats pure Osram diodes. Osram is best in the blue and red spectrum. Samsung is better in the other spectrums.

In the one you showed me you get 80 diodes for 195 USD.

With ViparSpectra KS2500 you get 576 diodes for 218 USD - with the newest generation diodes from Samsung and Osram.

 

[Dburr1014]

Its all photosynthesis. Plants and corals use the same sun.
Light is a matter of spread, PAR and spectrum.

The only difference i see between growth light and aquarium light is that reef nerds have a love for the blue spectrum. This has nothing to do with photosynthesis but more a fashion thing. Full spectrum is the best for photosynthesis and a more natural light.

I don't think this is entirely true. You also forget that we are keeping animals that are found deeper in the ocean. As the sun goes thru the ocean it loses the red and yellow spectrums. And then it gets more into the greens and Blues and violets that the corals need. This is why we have more of the blue Spectrum. But I do get what you're saying, perhaps you can buy one of these units and add blue light strips to it and still come out with the same results for a cheaper unit

 

[Impetus]

I don't think this is entirely true. You also forget that we are keeping animals that are found deeper in the ocean. As the sun goes thru the ocean it loses the red and yellow spectrums. And then it gets more into the greens and Blues and violets that the corals need. This is why we have more of the blue Spectrum. But I do get what you're saying, perhaps you can buy one of these units and add blue light strips to it and still come out with the same results for a cheaper unit

But look at this:

Radion XR30 - 950 USD 100pcd LEDs

• 16x Cool White
• 32x Royal Blue
• 16x Blue
• 4x Red
• 6x Green
• 4x UV (395nm)
• 2x UV (405nm)
• 4x UV (415nm)
• 8x Violet (430nm)
• 8x Warm White

ViparSpectra KS300 - 300 USD - 840pcs LEDs:

Samsung LM301H 3000K 528pcs
Samsung LM301H 5000K-288pcs
Osram 660nm-24pcs

Im not sure youre right corals grow faster on the spectrum you mention Or that the fish care but I get your point. Most of the manufactors in the aquarium Industry also make a white and a blue model.
The prettiest corals are often in the surfase. But I suppose that could be tested.

Apart from being 24 times more expensive per diode, Radion doesnt even tell what diodes they use…

 

[dedragon]

I have thought about this as well, im thinking it has to do with waterproofing the fixture, the individual power of each led as well as optics used. Without it they just might not have the same penetrating power as leds used for reefs

 

[dedragon]

smatfarms, noopsyche, and aliexpress led bars are probably some of the best deals around

 

[Dburr1014]

I have thought about this as well, im thinking it has to do with waterproofing the fixture, the individual power of each led as well as optics used. Without it they just might not have the same penetrating power as leds used for reefs

Power for the most part is the same.
Optics, maybe. I took mine out of the reef breeders cuz it's mounted so close to the water. (4" or so) I don't get the par some get but it's good enough.
Which brings me to water proofing, I have a splash guard but not much more than that. Moisture I'm sure is they the unit.

 

[Impetus]

Led from Amazon, Aliexpress, EBay etc are just cheap replica of the top brands. Im sure the assembly quality is low.

Growth light led from Spider Farmer, AC Infinity, ViparSpectra, Vivosun and Mars Hydro are high quality products like Orphek, EcoTech Marine, Neptune Systems, Kessil and Philips.

Some of the growth light companies have strategic cooperation with diode companies. And the price per diode is a LOT less.

The one difference is that the growth light industry is honest about what diodes they use and the competition in plant marked has developed the marked a lot more than the aquarium marked.

Here is a test of the difference between white light and blue/red light:



I don’t know but it sounds logical to assume the resultat would be the same for corals. Its all photosynthesis.

 

[rtparty]

Go setup two tanks and use each type of fixture. Report back and document your findings. Tell us which spectrum works better.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Color spectrums, wattage, depth penetration and type of diodes is what I look for which is why I use Orpheks.
Alot depends on height above water, blue spectrum and the PAR compared to natural lighting.
Ive seen Vivarspectra on various tanks which blow away lights like radion -Orphek-Photons with results of coral growth and color

 

[Dburr1014]

Light in the Ocean | manoa.hawaii.edu/ExploringOurFluidEarth

manoa.hawaii.edu

 

[RedoubtReef]

Its all photosynthesis. Plants and corals use the same sun.
Light is a matter of spread, PAR and spectrum.

The only difference i see between growth light and aquarium light is that reef nerds have a love for the blue spectrum. This has nothing to do with photosynthesis but more a fashion thing. Full spectrum is the best for photosynthesis and a more natural light.

The more I dig into it the more Im convinced the brands within the aquarium industry are selling hocus pocus. Most of the top brands dont even write what diodes they use and there is not even a comparison of best PAR for the dollar.

Wow…

What to do?

ViparSpectra KS3000 320W LED Grow Light

We Promise Be shipped Within 1 Business Day & 3-8 Business Days free shipping. 30 Days No-Hassle refund & exchange if any lights stop working. 2 years warranty for all of our products since the date of purchase. No Sales Tax & Lowest Price Guarantee. SPECIFICATIONS Actual Power Draw: 320W±3% at...

viparspectra.eu

Or some of the otter brands I mentioned in my first post.

have you considered using Halides, T5s or a combo of halide and T5?

 

[58e970b2-3f88-4897-87ba-5]

Posting this in multiple parts since I was just told it was too long... and ran into some issue with ordering and duplicate images. Sorry about the mess here, hope you like seeing my fish sitting on coral.

The following images are using this bulb (full spectrum grow light):
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/...light-bulb-blue-red-spectrum-9w-0528589p.html

Coral are growing. It is morning, so the Duncan is not fully expanded yet. It is growing new heads though.

The following images are from this bulb (full spectrum light on left):
https://www.feit.com/collections/gr...e-led-plant-grow-light-bulb-par38-grow-led-bx

This is my first tank light. I got it some time in 2019 and until about 2 months ago it was the primary light for the reef jar below it.
In that time the Candy Cane Coral more than doubled in size.

About a year ago I added one blue led bar to the tank. I didn't notice much change with the Candy Cane Coral, but I had some GSP in there that seemed to like the additional light. The GSP also looked pretty cool under the blue light.

I now have a couple of blue led bars that I am trying out. They are on all day and the full spectrum light is on for a few hours around noon. Not sure what to think yet.

My experience is full spectrum plant grow lights seem to grow coral and survive the conditions around a tank. Haven't tried dunking them in salt water yet, but they do occasionally get splashes directly on them. I am generally very careful to avoid the getting any water on or near the plugs though.

They also are great at growing algae. I do have issues with very high phosphate levels in my tanks, but as you can see my battle with GHA is not going so well.

 

[58e970b2-3f88-4897-87ba-5]

The following images are using the 2ft version of this light (full spectrum grow light):
https://www.feit.com/collections/gr...-spectrum-led-grow-light-glp12fs-vm-13-5w-led

Coral are growing reasonably well. Note the Acan has a bunch of new polyps. Most coral are well extended.
Note the brain coral is retracted in the second picture due to an Aiptasia I found on it yesterday.

 

[58e970b2-3f88-4897-87ba-5]

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Full-spectrum is best for photosynthesis, yes, but not necessarily for coral growth (except, apparently, in the case of corals from shallow water) - I don't know why, but it is what it is (scientific article links in the quote):

Corals will still grow under just blue light, yes. As mentioned, changing from white and blue or just white to just blue will likely impact the coral's growth, coloration, and possibly health (if the coral is from deep water rather than shallow water, using just blue light will likely increase coral growth and health - if the coral is from shallow water, switching to just blue may decrease the growth and health).* Switching to blue light from white or white/blue will also impact any photosynthesis going on in the tank:

"More importantly, under blue light calcification is very high, even higher than under full spectrum, while photosynthesis remains below the compensation point, meaning that CO2 production is higher than consumption (Figure 4B)." **

*Source:

Green fluorescent protein-like pigments optimise the internal light environment in symbiotic reef-building corals

Scalar irradiance microsensor measurements performed inside the tissue of living corals show that absorption and fluorescence emission by host pigments produce dramatic spectral alterations in the light environment experienced by the symbionts.

elifesciences.org

**Source:

Light Enhanced Calcification in Hermatypic Corals: New Insights from Light Spectral Responses

Light enhanced calcification (LEC) is a well-documented phenomenon in reef-building corals. The main mechanism proposed for LEC is that photosynthetic CO2 uptake by the algal symbionts elevates the pH and thus enhances calcification. We evaluated the role of light and of photosynthesis on...

www.frontiersin.org

***This third link reinforces both of the points listed with the other links:

The spectral quality of light is a key driver of photosynthesis and photoadaptation in Stylophora pistillata colonies from different depths in the Red Sea

SUMMARYDepth zonation on coral reefs is largely driven by the amount of downwelling, photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) that is absorbed by the symbiotic algae (zooxanthellae) of corals. The minimum light requirements of zooxanthellae are related to both the total intensity of downwelling...

journals.biologists.com

With regards to blue light vs. full spectrum and algae:

I haven't gone looking too much into the specifics of algal growth under various light conditions at this point, but oreo54's post on page 1 here gives some idea of the complexities involved with this discussion/research (i.e. what the "white" in the light itself is, the kind of algae involved, etc.). That said, from what I've found, there are currently only two things I've come across that are scientifically researched that seem to possibly support the idea that lowering "white light" and/or running just blue light decreases algal growth (and one of them I'd feel a lot more confident about the assertion that it might lead to a decreased amount of algae if Randy thinks there a chance it would be impactful/meaningful from the chemistry side of things):

1 ) Most algae use Chlorophyll A and some other kind of Chlorophyll (B, C, or D), while corals basically use just Chlorophyll A (this is an extreme simplification - there are a number of other important pigments involved as well, and some corals technically use a little Chlorophyll C as well); in theory, by hitting just the spectrum for Chlorophyll A by using just blue light, it could potentially provide corals an edge over the algae (I haven't seen studies done on if it actually does provide an edge or not though, and I would assume any edge given is small).

2 ) This is the one where I don't know enough about the chemistry involved yet to know for sure if it would even matter, but:

Corals will still grow under just blue light, yes. As mentioned, changing from white and blue or just white to just blue will likely impact the coral's growth, coloration, and possibly health (if the coral is from deep water rather than shallow water, using just blue light will likely increase coral growth and health - if the coral is from shallow water, switching to just blue may decrease the growth and health).* Switching to blue light from white or white/blue will also impact any photosynthesis going on in the tank:

"More importantly, under blue light calcification is very high, even higher than under full spectrum, while photosynthesis remains below the compensation point, meaning that CO2 production is higher than consumption (Figure 4B)." **

*Source:

Green fluorescent protein-like pigments optimise the internal light environment in symbiotic reef-building corals

Scalar irradiance microsensor measurements performed inside the tissue of living corals show that absorption and fluorescence emission by host pigments produce dramatic spectral alterations in the light environment experienced by the symbionts.

elifesciences.org

**Source:

Light Enhanced Calcification in Hermatypic Corals: New Insights from Light Spectral Responses

Light enhanced calcification (LEC) is a well-documented phenomenon in reef-building corals. The main mechanism proposed for LEC is that photosynthetic CO2 uptake by the algal symbionts elevates the pH and thus enhances calcification. We evaluated the role of light and of photosynthesis on...

www.frontiersin.org

***This third link reinforces both of the points listed with the other links:

The spectral quality of light is a key driver of photosynthesis and photoadaptation in Stylophora pistillata colonies from different depths in the Red Sea

SUMMARYDepth zonation on coral reefs is largely driven by the amount of downwelling, photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) that is absorbed by the symbiotic algae (zooxanthellae) of corals. The minimum light requirements of zooxanthellae are related to both the total intensity of downwelling...

journals.biologists.com

In my mind, photosynthesis remaining below the compensation point could potentially mean that the blue lighting rather than white lighting helps limit algae by reducing available oxygen in the tank, but - again - I'd run this one by Randy to see if it might be valid.
(P.S. the quote above is - I'd imagine - why many big coral sellers run full blue lighting: maximizing coral growth; importantly, however, as noted, this maximized growth under blue light may only apply to deeper-water corals.)

Anyway, as mentioned, there's also a chance that lowering PAR by decreasing the white channel on your lighting could also decrease the amount of algal growth simply by limiting the potential energy uptake of the algae.

So, there are a few things that indicate that decreasing white lighting could potentially reduce algal growth, but whether it actually would reduce it or not has - to my knowledge - not actually been studied at this point.

Regardless, at this point in time, since there's not really any solid evidence that running just blue reduces algae growth, I'd suggest it may be better to decide if you want white lighting or blue lighting based on 1 ) whether your corals are from deep water or shallow water, and/or 2 ) if you want your coral fluorescence to really pop or if you want to be able to see your fish/other inhabitants' colors better.

Some other, pertinent information:

From what I've read, it's because algae generally uses different light wavelengths for photosynthesis than coral zooxanthellae do - corals using more blue light, and algae using more red and green/yellow.
For a simple explanation, here's a graph from Khan Academy about photosynthesis and light absorption:

I wish I could find the graphs that I've seen specifically for corals/algae, but I can't remember where I've seen them. Anyway, basically the "Windex" blue light tanks use that spectrum (and some people recommend it over using white/red lights) because - at least theoretically - the corals do fine using primarily the Chlorophyll A provided by the deep blue while essentially starving out the algae by not providing the green/yellow and red lights for Chlorophyll B and Beta Carotene. I've seen some more complicated charts of this with more absorbing pigments than just these three (Chlorophyll C, Chlorophyll D, PSC, and PPC to name a few), but - again - I can't find the ones I've seen for corals which would be more useful, and this one gets the point across.

So, the theory is that you feed the corals with blue light, and the algae with other lights. By reducing the other lights, you stop feeding the algae/give the corals the competitive edge. That's why people say to reduce intensity of other colors to stop algae. How accurate that theory is would likely depend on the specific corals and algae involved, but the theory seems relatively sound when speaking broadly. Since many (possibly most) algae species utilize Chlorophyll A, I have no idea if it's effective or not, but there is a chance that it gives corals the edge they need to beat out algae. I'm not aware of any studies that actually show one way or the other though.

With regards to the "... old ones grow algae!" - here's a quote from Dana Riddle on it that basically says it's possible following the same lines of reasoning listed above, but he's not (or at least wasn't) sure if it was true:

In case you're curious, here's a graph from the paper linked below that shows different classes of algae use different spectrums of light for their photosynthesis:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333210678_Algal_Biofuels_Current_Status_and_Key_Challenges

Not quite; the thought process is that if the coral only uses Chlorophyll A (again, a gross simplification) while the algae uses Chlorophyll A and - for example - Chlorophyll D, then by not providing light for the Chlorophyll D, it'll slow the algae growth down marginally, thereby providing an edge for the coral (not starving the algae/preventing it from growing, but basically reducing the extra "nutrition" that it would be provided by the Chlorophyll D so that it grows more slowly, if that makes sense).

To put it another way, there's a chance that the other Chlorophylls utilized by algae are important enough to their growth rates that by depriving them of those other Chlorophylls, they will grow slower than corals being given their preferred Chlorophyll. Personally, I find it doubtful, but that's the thought process on it.

I haven't seen any evidence for this either, and - like I said - I find it doubtful.

Edit: So, the grow light LED's - as long as they have the proper PAR and spectrum - should grow any corals, but blue vs. full spectrum is a little more nuanced. Also, as mentioned, the water resistance/proofing of the light (the IP rating of the light fixture) is an important consideration; most grow lights won't be water proof, and may suffer damage over time from the exposure to the salt water.

 

[Impetus]

Im happy for the knowledge people provide here. Its good with some science.

T5 is a good option but I dont like the running cost. Led is more effective but the full spectrum from T5 is more pleasing to my eye.

Im a firm believer that test is benificial. Very often we just get the test result we look for and we test a specific area and not the whole biological circle.

I believe that a full spectrum will be more benificial because its an imitation of the full spectrum from the sun. At the end of the day its all photosynthesis.