The Proven Best Lighting Solution for your Aquarium

[BeltedCoyote]

Oh boy. This is the one MH is really good , it might be best but it’s okay if you don’t agree, and I’m open to disagreement (cuz other options are great, let’s talk about it) MH thread I’ve seen over the 2 years I’ve been here. Let’s not turn it into something it’s not. Seriously.

 

[reefinatl]

If you look at the science of it, the only reason why MH are “better” than anything else is intensity. Light is light. Photons are photons. MH may have a broader spectrum than most LED but it’s the wattage that makes a difference. Not the nature of the type of light. There are now LEDs which have a broader spectrum than before. They seem to do amazingly with coral growth.

Honestly, if it wouldn’t run up the electric bill, I’d probably run MH. I’m not saying they’re bad. But the idea that they’re just “better” is opinion.

color? That’s subjective. But I’ve not seen any MH grown corals that look any more colorful than those from a well maintained tank that runs LED, t5, or a mix of the 2.

I’ve also never seen anything that definitely proves MH has better growth. I’m not saying it’s not possible. Just haven’t found anything that’s more than opinion. It could well be they are better. Let’s get some measurements in verifiable metrics.

not trying to sound preachy. I just don’t believe there’s a cut and dry best anything in life. Everything has pros and cons.

I'd argue the blend from a point source like MH, or the blend from T5s is probably better for the corals vs the spottiness of most LED set ups. I also think there is something to be said for t5 and halides just simply working. No PAR meter, no experience needed. You can really just set up a pair of 250w halides and some t5s and grow anything. It's nearly fool proof and one less thing to go wrong in a hobby full of pitfalls.

At some point I'll get off the halides because I really want a full ramp up ramp down setup that comes with the LEDs. I'll go Kessil A500x or some RS90 knockoffs though to keep the spectral blend and shimmer. That'll probably come after I'm through the grow out period and is at least a year or two out.

If you have central air and keep the house in the mid 70s Halide heat is totally controllable. Not a chance I'd be doing halides without central air though.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

I'd argue the blend from a point source like MH, or the blend from T5s is probably better for the corals vs the spottiness of most LED set ups. I also think there is something to be said for t5 and halides just simply working. No PAR meter, no experience needed. You can really just set up a pair of 250w halides and some t5s and grow anything. It's nearly fool proof and one less thing to go wrong in a hobby full of pitfalls.

At some point I'll get off the halides because I really want a full ramp up ramp down setup that comes with the LEDs. I'll go Kessil A500x or some RS90 knockoffs though to keep the spectral blend and shimmer. That'll probably come after I'm through the grow out period and is at least a year or two out.

If you have central air and keep the house in the mid 70s Halide heat is totally controllable. Not a chance I'd be doing halides without central air though.

It will only be harder and harder to use hallides as temperatures rise due to climate change.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

I'd argue the blend from a point source like MH, or the blend from T5s is probably better for the corals vs the spottiness of most LED set ups. I also think there is something to be said for t5 and halides just simply working. No PAR meter, no experience needed. You can really just set up a pair of 250w halides and some t5s and grow anything. It's nearly fool proof and one less thing to go wrong in a hobby full of pitfalls.

At some point I'll get off the halides because I really want a full ramp up ramp down setup that comes with the LEDs. I'll go Kessil A500x or some RS90 knockoffs though to keep the spectral blend and shimmer. That'll probably come after I'm through the grow out period and is at least a year or two out.

If you have central air and keep the house in the mid 70s Halide heat is totally controllable. Not a chance I'd be doing halides without central air though.

still, that’s intensity. Not anything saying else. Again, lighting is the same on a basic scientific level. Your MH don’t give off different photons, which is what light is.

a 250w light vs a 50w? Yeah sure. The 250 will have better results. Because it has more intensity. Doesn’t mean on a basic level MH is somehow “better” than anything else. Show me a light that doesn’t deal with the current understanding of the true nature of light and somehow has something better than. Photons, I’ll give you it’s an objectively better light. Although I’m a philosopher so objectivity is also a fools errand but ignore that.

and with all of that, I’m not saying you’re wrong. With the intensity of a 250w MH and t5, yeah. That’d be amazing. But it still doesn’t mean MH is the best light. I can’t justify running a light that pulls more power than most of my appliances. Let alone two. So yeah. MH is good. It grows stuff. The intensity of the light MH works. Faster than alternatives.

but that doesn’t prove it’s “better”. It just works and if you can swing running them, yeah, it may be your best option. Doesn’t mean MH is the holy grail of lighting and no other option can compare.

if we’re honest? You want the best light? The sun. Blows anything else out of the water. But it’s no more feasible than MH are for some.

“best” is arbitrary and a silly way to measure things unless it’s what’s best for your setup

 

[reefinatl]

It will only be harder and harder to use hallides as temperatures rise due to climate change.

yeah, totally dude. That 0.25* F per year is going to be the deal breaker on the future of aquarium lighting.

and now we stand by for thread derailment

 

[reefinatl]

still, that’s intensity. Not anything saying else. Again, lighting is the same on a basic scientific level. Your MH don’t give off different photons, which is what light is.

a 250w light vs a 50w? Yeah sure. The 250 will have better results. Because it has more intensity. Doesn’t mean on a basic level MH is somehow “better” than anything else. Show me a light that doesn’t deal with the current understanding of the true nature of light and somehow has something better than. Photons, I’ll give you it’s an objectively better light. Although I’m a philosopher so objectivity is also a fools errand but ignore that.

and with all of that, I’m not saying you’re wrong. With the intensity of a 250w MH and t5, yeah. That’d be amazing. But it still doesn’t mean MH is the best light. I can’t justify running a light that pulls more power than most of my appliances. Let alone two. So yeah. MH is good. It grows stuff. The intensity of the light MH works. Faster than alternatives.

but that doesn’t prove it’s “better”. It just works and if you can swing running them, yeah, it may be your best option. Doesn’t mean MH is the holy grail of lighting and no other option can compare.

if we’re honest? You want the best light? The sun. Blows anything else out of the water. But it’s no more feasible than MH are for some.

“best” is arbitrary and a silly way to measure things unless it’s what’s best for your setup

Intensity and spectrum work together. You can have high par but poor spectrum with LED, it's tough to that with Halide and T5.

 

[CanuckReefer]

yeah, totally dude. That 0.25* F per year is going to be the deal breaker on the future of aquarium lighting.

and now we stand by for thread derailment

I have to agree....that one comment was pretty whacked, as per the discussion.....

 

[Bpb]

.

If you have central air and keep the house in the mid 70s Halide heat is totally controllable. Not a chance I'd be doing halides without central air though.

I can go back and find myself saying that a dozen or more times while using halides here in central Texas. But ultimately it became too much. What began to take a toll was the humidity inside the house. The temperatures I could manage with running the ac hard, and using fans. But years worth of 70-80% humidity inside the house began to cause serious mold issues and rust. The problem began to affect the entire house. Not just the tank.

When switching away from metal halides, I saw a drop of 20-30% humidity on average, and a reduction in my utility bill by about $100 a month all other things equal. That’s significant. Honestly were it not for the humidity, the look and performance was worth the extra electricity. I can deal. Do I miss the shimmer? Yeah. Was growth better? Maybe. Some things yes others not so much. Ultimately at the end of the day protecting the investment that is my home won out. I can still enjoy my hobby.

Really an externally run chiller is just the best solution to the temperature problem, but that is a cost increase and infrastructure modification im simply not prepared to undergo. LED’s work. Nearly just as well. 90% of the results. But NONE of the headaches. Yes I’ll yield on that small improvement in speed and shape of growth. Likely due to improved blending and the small presence of UV and IR

 

[BeltedCoyote]

Intensity and spectrum work together. You can have high par but poor spectrum with LED, it's tough to that with Halide and T5.

true. Does that really mean MH are the best option for everyone?

edit: not trying to be argumentative.

 

[hart24601]

The real catch is that it doesn’t matter what anyone posts here. Next week, or sooner he will post another MH rule thread and this all will get repeated as it has many, many times. I wonder how many threads and posts grandis has made about the inferiority of leds.

i do have to say I admire his passion for the subject. Or obsession, not sure. It does imo make this site worse, but to chase something with such zeal! Amazing!

 

[ReefCheef]

Thank you for your post!!!
IMO halide/T5 have the true full spectrum and that is what I'm looking for. Just my preferences.
My problem is with the propaganda from LED companies trying to substitute halides and T5s as their products would be the "best", teaching the new generation to reject MH and T5s.
In reality there is no substitution because they are different in their nature and will provide different results. Application is what dictates the best for that particular system.
But I agree... the people need to go after the real info about the qualities of light.
Tanks again!

I’m with you 100% in the sense that MH/T5 is superior to LED in terms of usable energy emitted. It’s obvious, stick your hand under a MH and you’ll get burnt or tan. It’s a visceral sensation you can actually feel. LEDs do not feel the same way. The energy of MH/T5 is closer to the energy of the sun, so imo its probably superior.

That said, theyre a pain in the butt to run, and Europe is likely banning the manufacturing of bulbs in September of this year. All the best bulbs are made in Germany, so what are the T5/MH guys gonna do? Make their own bulbs? They contain mercury and die with the rise of environmentalism. They arent long for this world - at least not the good ones.

Some movies look better on VHS too, but is the extra hassle of finding a VHS player at a pawn shop over watching it on Netflix really worth it? I’d wager most people would say no.

You arent wrong about the MH/T5, but I’m stoked to get my Stratons. Hoping they have a similar vibe to the T5s.

Everyone should chill with the personal attacks IMO. Not sure why mob bullying is so in right now, but when you partake in that kind of behavior the only person that looks stupid, is you.

 

[reefinatl]

true. Does that really mean MH are the best option?

nope, everything is relative. I'm not "that guy". If i was seeing the issues @Bpb was I would also ditch the halides although I probably would go T5 over LED as of today.

 

[Bpb]

nope, everything is relative. I'm not "that guy". If i was seeing the issues @Bpb was I would also ditch the halides although I probably would go T5 over LED as of today.

Certainly wouldn’t be a bad move. Favorite colors so far have been under my t5 tanks. By a mile

 

[hart24601]

Adam from battlecorals posted in a thread similar to this, and it’s been repeated, he uses all 3 lighting types in a shared system. He sees no growth increases or color differences his eyes can detect between the lightning types. I am not sure why that hasn’t ended this argument but here we are again. Lighting tech isn’t that big of a deal. He would know and it pays his mortgage. However this info will get lost again when the thread is restarted….

 

[ElussssvReefSD]

So I just want to chime in and offer my 0.02, take it or leave it because the lighting decision was tough for my build.

From lurking on multiple lighting threads, it seems that ppl are coming from all over the place because their personal tanks are all over the map as far as type, size, etc.

For me personally, I'm building a big boy (120 x 48 x 36), so my needs are different than someone who has a nano-cube from one extreme, to a 5,000 gallon, 8 foot deep concrete monstrosity on the other extreme.

For the size and scope of my personal tank, I went with 5 MH Hamilton fixtures + 8 ReefBrite XHO strips for the following reasons:

1) Because of the 3ft depth and 4ft width, the cost of all the LED fixtures required to provide adequate coverage would have approached the cost of the tank itself.

2) I live in Florida and need to use big AC pump(s) and a large UV so a chiller is going in regardless. I am hoping that the water volume involved will help to offset the extra cooling needs that the MH fixtures will create.

3) I could care less about the adjustability that LEDs provide. I'm simple and tend to be paralyzed by choice. A simple "on" and "off" work best for me in most scenarios. The simplicity that MH provides, and the fact that they're proven to work with minimal adjustments, overrides all the adjustability that LEDs may provide in my head.

4) I chose the XHO strips instead of T5s however, because honestly, I didn't want to have to worry about any additional bulb changes to keep track of. Also, purely from observation (nothing scientific), I feel that LEDs have more punch to highlight certain colors/florescence. The MH fixtures are 400W 10Ks (I prefer more yellow/white than windex blue), so would need that punch to break through.

Bottom line, I think that these conversations would be more useful in general with more context. Instead of, "X is better than Y", I would personally rather see more, "X is better than Y in situations A through C, while Y may be better in situations D-F". Make sense?

 

[A. grandis]

Adam from battlecorals posted in a thread similar to this, and it’s been repeated, he uses all 3 lighting types in a shared system. He sees no growth increases or color differences his eyes can detect between the lightning types. I am not sure why that hasn’t ended this argument but here we are again. Lighting tech isn’t that big of a deal. He would know and it pays his mortgage. However this info will get lost again when the thread is restarted….

...THAT LAMP I LIKE IS NOT COMING BACK IN STYLE....:(

So it has happened, Just last week. I don’t want to say finally, as in I have some feeling of relief about this, but I knew this day would eventually greet me. And I’ll confess, I am not without mixed emotions about it. You see, with only a few months left on my last three running Iwasaki...

www.reef2reef.com

FROM the thead:
"So it has happened, Just last week. I don’t want to say finally, as in I have some feeling of relief about this, but I knew this day would eventually greet me. And I’ll confess, I am not without mixed emotions about it. You see, with only a few months left on my last three running Iwasaki lamps, I made the call to restock. Only this time, my triennial requisite, a mainline directly to EYE lighting, for the 250 watt 65k halide bulb, was met with a foreboding, “The lamp you purchased previously has been marked for discontinuation.” And, by discontinuation, he meant they are done. As in gone for good! The last 27 available 65k Iwasakis I will ever be able to get my hands on. That is it my friends, the end of an era is upon us. Quite literally.
Now, I’m not exactly suggesting that this is the death of the halide bulb all together. Merely, that as the popularity of halides has been diminishing for at least a decade now, the popularity of this particular bulb, has been doing so for far longer. Reaching as far back as the introduction of the 10K even. And it's time has finally come. I’ll even go ahead and say, it’s with good reason, or at least no big surprise. The 65k is a seriously unflattering bulb for coral. By todays standards, most newer hobbyists would probably think there was something actually broken with the bulb at first sight. Mind you though, it’s a beautiful aesthetic. I mean I love it, and I will miss it dearly. As natural looking as artificial lighting can be. People have thrown the word “yellow” around for years regarding this bulb, but to me it’s just a really nice warm white. But, the thing is, this spectrum just will not produce the kind of visual effect, that pretty much any hint of bluer bulb will do. Even 10k. Other than the fact that PAR is really high, there not many other redeeming factors for typical home reef setups. But let me tell you this, I don’t know if I’d be where I am today, without the help of this bulb. And I mean that. I still very much believe that the best colors, and by far the most aggressive growth, I ever experienced, were in corals baking under the shine of the Sakis, overdriven on an m-80 magnetic ballast.

So I’m sitting here, and I don’t know weather to be nostalgic, or just accept it, and move on, because I have to contend with the fact that there will be a time now that I cannot run this bulb anymore. That is certain. But I’ve got, for the last time now, more sakis on their way, as I type this. I didn't buy all 27. Only 9, which is about 3-5 years worth, at the very most, I may really regret that decision. And it's very well likely I'll revisit this thread when the day eventually does come, that I have unscrewed my last expired Iwasaki from it's mogul socket. Certainly a more somber ceremony indeed.

All of this has got me thinking though. And I’m wondering. What other industry mainstays have fallen out of favor over the years? Or, just simply went away with little fanfare like the Sakis’ have? Maybe having been replaced by a “better” product or simply phased out. I mean I've seen lots of stuff come and go, but this one really strikes a nerve with me, as my relationship with this bulb is long and genuine. While it's been harder to find time to really sit down and devote a moment to writing anything, I don't think there was any way at all, I wasn't going to write a little something about this event. And there you have it.

So what do you guy say? Any other Saki users out there want to lament this occasion with me?

Or, anyone else just want to pay tribute to bygone favorites we've lost over the years..."

 

[BeltedCoyote]

Adam from battlecorals posted in a thread similar to this, and it’s been repeated, he uses all 3 lighting types in a shared system. He sees no growth increases or color differences his eyes can detect between the lightning types. I am not sure why that hasn’t ended this argument but here we are again. Lighting tech isn’t that big of a deal. He would know and it pays his mortgage. However this info will get lost again when the thread is restarted….

this is all I was trying to get at and honestly I agree this should end the discussion.

 

[Jubei2006]

So, new to the forum, but not new to reefing. I think both lighting type have been proven to grow corals but both have their good and bad points. Both of them will cook corals if used improperly. I despise the discoball of some setups, but hate the shadowing caused by the pinpoint LED spotlamps. But also, if metal halide is the end all be all, why do people fight over the best spectrum (5k, 10k, 12k, 14k, 20k) for a balance to do everything? And I'd be cautious about saying metal halide is superior and will stay so, especially with the new lights coming out from Phillips (coral care) and the Neptune sky. Personally I'm giving the gel mitral a go over my brand new 500, so far I'm impressed with the spread and shimmer. And the ability to ramp them up and down following the course of a day is awesome. Remember metal halide have been out for way more time than LEDs and the technology is getting better at a quick pace.

 

[A. grandis]

I just want to thank you both for the precious dog's pictures!
I love dogs!

I had to open this thread, so we could bring it to the ground once for all without having to discuss with oreo in the other metal halide thread, that I didn't open. Good for the newbies to see what really happens in the market, so... do your search, really!

Bottom line is that metal halide is still a great way to light your corals and will deliver a very well distributed amount of quality light over the system. In my experiences it has given the life that no other light would give. When you add the T5s the halides, the system just over saturate with life. It's just incredible! Results are what we want. We choose what we can/want. I'm not worried about that.

It was good to vent a little about the misinformation that LED companies are spreading.
That was my point anyways.
We all have our personal way to see it, I get it.

In regards to the "green" stuff... there is no plans to stop production of MH and T5s".
Here:

"I personally have recently communicated with Giesemann, ATI, Radium and Ushio about this.
The only bulbs that will fall into a possible ban will be the ones used for commercial facilities and houses. All specialized bulbs, as for horticulture and aquarium purposes will have their production unaltered.
Radium confirmed their production of both 250W and 400W lamps to remain normal with no plans to stop.

Giesemann said there will be absolutely no changes in production of their metal halides and T5 bulbs with no plans for any type of change. People are importing Spectra and Infinity fixtures because BRS decided not to have metal halide gear available on their web site anymore. BRS told me they were not selling much halides and therefore they didn't want to keep them on their shelves. I asked if that was to promote LEDs, they said no. Ha! Yes, I did ask that!

ATI also told me their T5s will be produced in their normal numbers with no plans to stop.

Hamilton is also producing their metal halide bulbs at the moment, to restock after their sales went sky high last January. They are also producing more fixtures and ballasts to supply the market. Hamilton sells not only to hobbyists, but also to public aquariums. They will keep the Bimini and the Cebu fixtures discontinued for now. I suggested for a redesigned metal halide/T5 fixture to substitute the Cebu, similar to Giesemann Spectra. I hope they would consider and be able to accomplish that. If there is enough demand they will probably produce those fixtures. They would have to actually know if we would like to have such fixture and the numbers should be high enough for the investment in the production. The only for that to happen is if the public would communicating with them for that demand, I guess!

I also talked to Tullio, from ReefBrite, and they will also keep their production at 100%. Tullio said their sales of metal halide gear also went up and they are selling lots of fixtures, ballasts and bulbs around the globe. They supply a great number of metal halide equipment to public aquariums as well, specially now that most of those public aquariums that have tried LEDs are going back to halides due to their unpublished researches and experiments with LEDs. I wish they would publish those!!!! Tullio said that metal halides will remain unbeatable as they are the best artificial light that resembles natural sunlight in many ways, specially spectrum wise.

I've spend a long time on the phone with Ushio and the only way to bring back their normal metal halide production, specially the "untouchable" 250W 14K, is if they can attest a real worldwide demand of their bulbs. They said they know that the demand for public aquariums is high, but they want to have the market back and will do so only if they see their competitors selling metal halides as they were before.
There is a possibility for special order though, and that order should exceed certain minimum number of bulbs (undefined at the moment). They said if the people aren't buying their current stock of 10Ks and 20K 250W halides, that demand isn't enough. They do have 175W 14K SE and most of their other halide bulbs in stock.

We still have the LED market suffocating the MH and T5 market with their market strategies using propaganda (fake marketing) in an aggressive way like never before. Lies and distractions, as well as personal opinions from manufacturers and consumers, have been driven the market towards them every second. They are desperate to eliminate halides from the market at once! Priorities in this hobby have been dictated by some of the most influential people we know, used by those LED companies to spread ideologies, practical comfort and aesthetics in fashion and design are their main priorities. While what we need to provide to the organisms we keep is mainly and simply quality of light. Money has been spoken louder than actual quality IMO. They know that if 20% of the hobbyists approve halides as the primary light for their corals, the probability of that number to explode is huge, so they want to keep it very low!

On top of that, we have most, if not all, METAL HALIDE PRODUCERS in a very PASSIVE MODE, specially in terms of ADVERTISEMENT! LEDs sell mainly because of their aggressive advertisement on social media, period!!!!! I think online stores, like BRS, appreciate that very much and also do their advertisement, and will also continue to appreciate the high sale$$ of a high valued one time purchase with annual upgrades! Besides that, LED companies are sponsoring people, Youtube channels, etc... They are very good at their marketing.

People coming to the hobby today will hear most likely about LEDs and it's "wonderful abilities" of control and apps with their promotion of blue reflective qualities. Stores and authors are the main channel for such fashion and it came to the point that will be very hard to educate the public and bring back the real qualities of this wonderful hobby back. Things change, I get it. Too bad they are changing to be so superfluous in regards to lighting and at this rhythm.

There are not enough voices in the desert to claim the truth at the moment.
And some times when we do, those lines on the sand are blown by the strong and powerful of monetary wind.

All we need to teach this new generation that the lies spread about MH and T5s are not supposed to continue. It's becoming a war because of the fight to defeat MH from the market. LEDs are trying very hard for so many years. Although they conquered some good significant territory, they will never be able substitute it's real qualities. That's why halides remain King."

FROM:

Metal Halides are the bomb

I agree with much of that. Too much credit is given by brand new hobbyists to anyone with a YouTube account. Most of the types I’m talking about blaze their own trails. Yes many use leds, not all, but they certainly aren’t doing it as a fashion statement. Some didn’t even make mention of...

www.reef2reef.com

You guys are free to take a look at the MH threads and see what people think about the results. Many of them came from LEDs...
I don't sell anything, so you don't need to think that I have any interest in posting to make money or something like that. Thank God I don't need that stuff! The options are there for us to decide.

Any more dog's pics?
God bless you guys.

 

[A. grandis]

this is all I was trying to get at and honestly I agree this shou

I’m with you 100% in the sense that MH/T5 is superior to LED in terms of usable energy emitted. It’s obvious, stick your hand under a MH and you’ll get burnt or tan. It’s a visceral sensation you can actually feel. LEDs do not feel the same way. The energy of MH/T5 is closer to the energy of the sun, so imo its probably superior.

That said, theyre a pain in the butt to run, and Europe is likely banning the manufacturing of bulbs in September of this year. All the best bulbs are made in Germany, so what are the T5/MH guys gonna do? Make their own bulbs? They contain mercury and die with the rise of environmentalism. They arent long for this world - at least not the good ones.

Some movies look better on VHS too, but is the extra hassle of finding a VHS player at a pawn shop over watching it on Netflix really worth it? I’d wager most people would say no.

You arent wrong about the MH/T5, but I’m stoked to get my Stratons. Hoping they have a similar vibe to the T5s.

Everyone should chill with the personal attacks IMO. Not sure why mob bullying is so in right now, but when you partake in that kind of behavior the only person that looks stupid, is you.

The reason why halides give you the same sensation the sun gives is because it has the true full spectrum and intensity to be compared to the sun! UV and IR are also utilized by the corals along all the so called "PAR" area of the spectrum. Photosynthesis occur from UV to IR. That is THE full spectrum. The combination of all qualities makes halides the KING of lights. hanks for your comment!