The Proven Best Lighting Solution for your Aquarium

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A. grandis

A. grandis

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my guy I can tell you the point in the reef therapy podcast where Jake said what I reported.

I still appreciate your supposed openness to discussion.

but at this point, I’ve provided an actual statement made by a big player in our hobby.

instead of providing anything from Jake that might prove otherwise you’re claiming “no more laziness”.

but it’s you saying, “you’re wrong because I said so. Go look it up” who’s the lazy one now?

give me an example of Jake Adams still claiming MH is best. Show me something where Sanjay has gone back on his decision to switch to LED. Point me to something disclosing Jason Fox or Thanh saying their current setups are inferior to just running MH.

im still not saying MH is the worst. I honestly wish that I could justify running it. It’s just not feasible.

but again. How is MH the king of lighting? And how have the figures I’ve mentioned corroborated your claim in the last 5 years?

i was lazy to pull up all the threads of people switching from MH to LED because there are enough to make me not want to bother.

I’m asking you for three examples proving your point and you refuse to definitely provide them. Who is actually lazy in their argument?
Go ahead and look for them.
You will give much value to what it means in reality!
 
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A. grandis

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Halides are dead tech and will continue to be harder and harder to find. It's a matter of a few years until it's just a footnote in history. Halides were the main stay because they worked well but like the Model T they were not perfect and people moved on to better things.
Look for that too... I won't keep posting these type of things over and over...
 

90's reefer

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I run halides on 2 tanks.
Even experimented with halide 7k grow lights.
The 7k grew corals at a rapid rate while only being on 5-6 hours.
All my reefers run Radions or Orpheks.
Their tanks are awesome.
I like the Orphek light bars myself.
I could set up a tank with all Orphek light bars and be very happy.
I will always run Halides because I love the look, as long as they are around.
The best is yet to come with Leds and thats from a 30+ year halide reefer.
My tank upgrade may be 7k Ushio Halides with supplenntal light bars to bring in the colors we like to see.
But you never know as I really like the Orpheks
Leds run tanks are already proven.
Its the other part of running a reef that most people should be focused on, imo.
Current pics of my 120 today.
20210701_211828.jpg
20210701_194919.jpg
 

BeltedCoyote

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Go ahead and look for them.
You will give much value to what it means in reality!

……I have. When I tried to figure out what lighting I wanted when I was planning that part of my build.

please don’t pull arguments of reality into this. I’m a trained philosopher and questions of reality have nothing to do with an inability to admit that MH are not the be all end all answer to lighting.

again. MH works. It’s actually pretty awesome. But it’s not the only option for success
 

Jposch

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I run my halides for 15 hours a day...a pair of 150w hqi 14k pluseite bulbs. Tank gets to about 82F peak. I've been up to 85 on purpose as a test, but coral growth all but stopped after a short burst of accelerated growth. No water changes and minimal dosing, so could have been something used up rapidly, and not replenished. I've only recently dropped back down to 80-82F
 
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The plant i work at is phasing out MH fixtures and T8 fixtures for LEDs in all the warehouses and we are definitely not the only ones doing so. Europe has already banned halogen and fluorescent is next. Soon you are not going to have a choice
 

Jposch

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Here's another thing that makes halides "king." You don't need to put coral on the sand to acclimate it. You put it where you want, and it opens right up, and thrives from day one. This holds true for stuff like leathers that are notorious for taking weeks to adapt to a new tank. Even my mushrooms do better under halides. Yumas up top as high as I can out them. All others are at the bottom, and Reaching for more! Leds are such a narrow band of light waves, the shotgun approach leaves huge gaps in the spectrum between what each color led can produce. But, the manufacturers all show you some cool chart that makes you belive they sell the best.
 

Jposch

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The plant i work at is phasing out MH fixtures and T8 fixtures for LEDs in all the warehouses and we are definitely not the only ones doing so. Europe has already banned halogen and fluorescent is next. Soon you are not going to have a choice
A warehouse is not an aquarium.
 
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A. grandis

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……I have. When I tried to figure out what lighting I wanted when I was planning that part of my build.

please don’t pull arguments of reality into this. I’m a trained philosopher and questions of reality have nothing to do with an inability to admit that MH are not the be all end all answer to lighting.

again. MH works. It’s actually pretty awesome. But it’s not the only option for success
Try again... read the MH threads and figure out what is special about the KING of lights!! Figure out why Jake defends Radions (I don't blame him!)... not too had to figure out... go watch the video where Sanjay says what's the best for his tank... Try see what ACI says about halides... Even Mr. Paletta will still tell you today how profusely they grow corals... I know all of them and love all of them! About the need for WWC to switch and when I called them, what they told me... all published! And from others too... etc.. etc...
I don't like to bring that stuff up all the time! I've published too many times already... you guys need to learn how to search and think for yourselves!!

I do not care if LEDs work "just fine". Heard that billions of times too!
I just need more the "just fine"... I need profusely and rich, close to what I see in the ocean!

But I'm glad you are happy with your LEDs. It's your tank after all!
 

HomebroodExotics

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Lol didn’t try to derail anything, this thread is literally nothing to derail. Just making a comment. I’m sure the people using metal halides in the heat wave right now are struggling a lot more than led users. People in Texas and New York are already asked not to run their ac. It’s only going to get worse. I’m sure halides are great but I haven’t seen any evidence they are better than leds. In fact leds are growing corals great and they will still be improved upon on the years to come. Halides will not.
 
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A. grandis

A. grandis

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The plant i work at is phasing out MH fixtures and T8 fixtures for LEDs in all the warehouses and we are definitely not the only ones doing so. Europe has already banned halogen and fluorescent is next. Soon you are not going to have a choice
Search for that IN THIS THREAD!!
You guys don't even read/search before you post!!!
Just like Jake did! Wrong!
 

BeltedCoyote

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Try again... read the MH threads and figure out what is special about the KING of lights!! Figure out why Jake defends Radions (I don't blame him!)... not too had to figure out... go watch the video where Sanjay says what's the best for his tank... Try see what ACI says about halides... Even Mr. Paletta will still tell you today how profusely they grow corals... I know all of them and love all of them! About the need for WWC to switch and when I called them, what they told me... all published! And from others too... etc.. etc...
I don't like to bring that stuff up all the time! I've published too many times already... you guys need to learn how to search and think for yourselves!!

I do not care if LEDs work "just fine". Heard that billions of times too!
I just need more the "just fine"... I need profusely and rich, close to what I see in the ocean!

But I'm glad you are happy with your LEDs. It's your tank after all!

My guy MH threads turn into what you’re doing. Opinion on what feels best for you and therefor it’s better. Nothing else compares. There are other options cuz they’re weak.

again. I agree with you MH are pretty nifty. You’ve yet to prove to me that they’re any better than other options. Yes. The growth they provide is pretty quick. But I can’t justify an extra couple hundred dollars on my power bill.

you like the look of them. Again, that’s awesome. I’m glad! How does that prove they’re king?

ive watched the Sanjay video. I’ve seen the video where Jake defends radions. I’ve also seen the content you’re omitting which outlines why he now prefers LED overall. Even more than T5.

im ecstatic you love your MH! It’s your tank!

I still want to know why your opinion on MH means mine on LED and T5 is erroneous
 
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BeltedCoyote

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Search for that IN THIS THREAD!!
You guys don't even read/search before you post!!!
Just like Jake did! Wrong!

buddy. Just because we don’t automatically corroborate your view doesn’t mean we haven’t searched, researched, made a study of what led to our opinions.
 

MuscleBobBuffPants

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It’s amazing how you fail to even conduct the most basic research but claim these fantastic things. Metal halides have one thing that is superior and that’s the color temperature and even that is a personal aesthetic choice.

Metal halides:

-are only 25% efficient, so your 400 watt bulb only converts 100 watts to photons. The rest is heat!

- lose about 30% of their brightness in the first 3 months of use

-explode. Pretty regularly

-contain mercury

-require a 10 minute start up procedure

they are a safety hazard, they are a waste of energy, they are a unnecessary expense and consumable in a world with too much waste.

The 100 watt Kessil can provide the same amount of light and single point intensity.
 
Zoanthids

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Also, i take great pride in keeping a nice home. I definitely dont want to look at a couple hideous halide fixtures and getting a hood would ruin the modern and sexy look of a rimless tank. Not to mention what my wife would have to say haha. So for that reason alone to ME led is king
 

DHill6

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Here's another thing that makes halides "king." You don't need to put coral on the sand to acclimate it. You put it where you want, and it opens right up, and thrives from day one. This holds true for stuff like leathers that are notorious for taking weeks to adapt to a new tank. Even my mushrooms do better under halides. Yumas up top as high as I can out them. All others are at the bottom, and Reaching for more! Leds are such a narrow band of light waves, the shotgun approach leaves huge gaps in the spectrum between what each color led can produce. But, the manufacturers all show you some cool chart that makes you belive they sell the best.
I’m not an expert but I had no problem putting SPS, LPS or clam anywhere under LED Radion G4-G5. With that said I just put them under a Kessil 500x because I wanted to. Looks like they’re liking it to me. I’m not a spectrum analyst or expert. I just watch the coral.
 

oreo5457

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Here's another thing that makes halides "king." You don't need to put coral on the sand to acclimate it. You put it where you want, and it opens right up, and thrives from day one. This holds true for stuff like leathers that are notorious for taking weeks to adapt to a new tank. Even my mushrooms do better under halides. Yumas up top as high as I can out them. All others are at the bottom, and Reaching for more! Leds are such a narrow band of light waves, the shotgun approach leaves huge gaps in the spectrum between what each color led can produce. But, the manufacturers all show you some cool chart that makes you belive they sell the best.
Depends on the bulb and the Led.
20000k radium..
NOTE not sure why this spectrum is as it is.. Most are nowhere near as "fancy". See below.



T5-20K-500x500.jpg

and how you use it..
G5 pro..100%
SpectrumPro-Spectrum.jpg

I suppose "someone" will try to say the LED spectrum is faked.
Really I wouldn't say the above but you know it's true.
Just saving time.

ALL published spectra have some smoothing applied.
LED's are not as narrow a spectrum (well depends on the led again) as people ASSUME.
Just more FUD spreading.

You use "whiter" MH's than most would use so the above doesn't quite apply.

Would love to see your bulb spectrums..It's my "thing".

Even better..
Below is Jim’s new Mitras spectrum. The ghosted spectrum behind it is for the Hamilton 20k bulb with an electronic ballast. Note the spectrum for the 400W 20K Hamilton bulb is nearly identical to the one for the 250W 20K Radium bulb.

Lights-pic-18.jpg


One last NOTE of obviousness... as you dim channels you lose photons.
I know obvious but you'd be surprised..
 
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MaxTremors

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I just want to thank you both for the precious dog's pictures!
I love dogs!

I had to open this thread, so we could bring it to the ground once for all without having to discuss with oreo in the other metal halide thread, that I didn't open. Good for the newbies to see what really happens in the market, so... do your search, really!

Bottom line is that metal halide is still a great way to light your corals and will deliver a very well distributed amount of quality light over the system. In my experiences it has given the life that no other light would give. When you add the T5s the halides, the system just over saturate with life. It's just incredible! Results are what we want. We choose what we can/want. I'm not worried about that.

It was good to vent a little about the misinformation that LED companies are spreading.
That was my point anyways.
We all have our personal way to see it, I get it.

In regards to the "green" stuff... there is no plans to stop production of MH and T5s".
Here:

"I personally have recently communicated with Giesemann, ATI, Radium and Ushio about this.
The only bulbs that will fall into a possible ban will be the ones used for commercial facilities and houses. All specialized bulbs, as for horticulture and aquarium purposes will have their production unaltered.
Radium confirmed their production of both 250W and 400W lamps to remain normal with no plans to stop.

Giesemann said there will be absolutely no changes in production of their metal halides and T5 bulbs with no plans for any type of change. People are importing Spectra and Infinity fixtures because BRS decided not to have metal halide gear available on their web site anymore. BRS told me they were not selling much halides and therefore they didn't want to keep them on their shelves. I asked if that was to promote LEDs, they said no. Ha! Yes, I did ask that!

ATI also told me their T5s will be produced in their normal numbers with no plans to stop.

Hamilton is also producing their metal halide bulbs at the moment, to restock after their sales went sky high last January. They are also producing more fixtures and ballasts to supply the market. Hamilton sells not only to hobbyists, but also to public aquariums. They will keep the Bimini and the Cebu fixtures discontinued for now. I suggested for a redesigned metal halide/T5 fixture to substitute the Cebu, similar to Giesemann Spectra. I hope they would consider and be able to accomplish that. If there is enough demand they will probably produce those fixtures. They would have to actually know if we would like to have such fixture and the numbers should be high enough for the investment in the production. The only for that to happen is if the public would communicating with them for that demand, I guess!

I also talked to Tullio, from ReefBrite, and they will also keep their production at 100%. Tullio said their sales of metal halide gear also went up and they are selling lots of fixtures, ballasts and bulbs around the globe. They supply a great number of metal halide equipment to public aquariums as well, specially now that most of those public aquariums that have tried LEDs are going back to halides due to their unpublished researches and experiments with LEDs. I wish they would publish those!!!! Tullio said that metal halides will remain unbeatable as they are the best artificial light that resembles natural sunlight in many ways, specially spectrum wise.

I've spend a long time on the phone with Ushio and the only way to bring back their normal metal halide production, specially the "untouchable" 250W 14K, is if they can attest a real worldwide demand of their bulbs. They said they know that the demand for public aquariums is high, but they want to have the market back and will do so only if they see their competitors selling metal halides as they were before.
There is a possibility for special order though, and that order should exceed certain minimum number of bulbs (undefined at the moment). They said if the people aren't buying their current stock of 10Ks and 20K 250W halides, that demand isn't enough. They do have 175W 14K SE and most of their other halide bulbs in stock.

We still have the LED market suffocating the MH and T5 market with their market strategies using propaganda (fake marketing) in an aggressive way like never before. Lies and distractions, as well as personal opinions from manufacturers and consumers, have been driven the market towards them every second. They are desperate to eliminate halides from the market at once! Priorities in this hobby have been dictated by some of the most influential people we know, used by those LED companies to spread ideologies, practical comfort and aesthetics in fashion and design are their main priorities. While what we need to provide to the organisms we keep is mainly and simply quality of light. Money has been spoken louder than actual quality IMO. They know that if 20% of the hobbyists approve halides as the primary light for their corals, the probability of that number to explode is huge, so they want to keep it very low!

On top of that, we have most, if not all, METAL HALIDE PRODUCERS in a very PASSIVE MODE, specially in terms of ADVERTISEMENT! LEDs sell mainly because of their aggressive advertisement on social media, period!!!!! I think online stores, like BRS, appreciate that very much and also do their advertisement, and will also continue to appreciate the high sale$$ of a high valued one time purchase with annual upgrades! Besides that, LED companies are sponsoring people, Youtube channels, etc... They are very good at their marketing.

People coming to the hobby today will hear most likely about LEDs and it's "wonderful abilities" of control and apps with their promotion of blue reflective qualities. Stores and authors are the main channel for such fashion and it came to the point that will be very hard to educate the public and bring back the real qualities of this wonderful hobby back. Things change, I get it. Too bad they are changing to be so superfluous in regards to lighting and at this rhythm.

There are not enough voices in the desert to claim the truth at the moment.
And some times when we do, those lines on the sand are blown by the strong and powerful of monetary wind.

All we need to teach this new generation that the lies spread about MH and T5s are not supposed to continue. It's becoming a war because of the fight to defeat MH from the market. LEDs are trying very hard for so many years. Although they conquered some good significant territory, they will never be able substitute it's real qualities. That's why halides remain King
."

FROM:

You guys are free to take a look at the MH threads and see what people think about the results. Many of them came from LEDs...
I don't sell anything, so you don't need to think that I have any interest in posting to make money or something like that. Thank God I don't need that stuff! The options are there for us to decide.

Any more dog's pics?
God bless you guys.
There is just so much wrong here. The main reason the average hobbyist goes with LEDs is because they last longer, use less energy, are far more adjustable (w/o having to buy new bulbs), they produce far less heat, come in a variety of form factors (pucks, strips, built into hoods, submersibles, etc), and are usable in more applications. Then there’s also the fact that halides just aren’t a good option for nanos. It’s not some conspiracy that LED manufactures have lied and manipulated to gain market share and put halide manufacturers out of business, they’ve simply marketed their products the same way that halide manufacturers have marketed theirs, and consumers decided that LEDs were the better option. Halides are likely better at growing corals, but positing the idea that LEDs are bad at growing corals or are unhealthy for corals is 100% nonsense. Halides were never the #1 lighting option in hobby. They probably were for hardcore reefers, but for the average hobbyist, and the total sales overall, power compacts, then T5s, and now LEDs always outsold them.

And there’s a reason for that, up until the time that LEDs started becoming a thing in the hobby (around 2007), there were no plug and play halide aquarium fixtures, you had to DIY the reflectors and ballasts into your setup, it wasn’t until LEDs were already gaining a foothold that self contained halide fixtures that had active cooling and that didn’t look like a construction site, that looked like any other aquarium light fixture, came out on the market. But even then you had to order them, no LFS I knew of sold them or carried them in all the common sizes. I remember having to order a 24” fixture and cutting off and then DIYing the legs back on it so it would fit my 20” tank (they didn’t make them that small). My point is that halides have never been an elegant or attractive lighting solution (not talking about the actual light), and I think you under estimate how much that matters.

I’ve been in the hobby for over 20 years, I’ve used regular fluorescent bulbs, VHOs, Power Compacts, Halides, T5s, and LEDs, and out of all of those I would choose LEDs every time (I would probably do halides and LEDs if I was planning some massive 300+ gallon build, but I’m not, and am unlikely to). The convenience, longevity, lack of heat, and adjustability of LEDs just completely outweigh any slight increase in growth I might get from halides.
 

rtparty

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It's sad really. This thread is the perfect example of why the big names won't come to the forums any longer. Let alone will they ever share their own opinions on the matter.
This goes for both sides of this coin.

I've had personal conversations with some of the biggest names in the game and every single one of them told me the same thing: they'd run halides again in a heartbeat if the market showed people wanted them back. Multiple even said they plan to setup and run halides again in some way. We'll see if any of that comes to fruition.

For years, I helped run the largest lighting thread to ever exist over on RC with Grim. I no longer engage in these conversations though and rarely answer lighting questions. It's not worth it. Each side is set in their ways and the one who spent the most usually has the most to justify.

The personal attacks are pretty ridiculous in here. Not sure I'm all that surprised though. I did have to hit the "show ignored content" to see them :p

In the end, each of us should go enjoy our tank (s) while we can. Doesn't matter if you like looking at a yellow mess of brown or a Windex filled rave party where the lights are barely bright enough to see. Just go enjoy what you have and let others do the same.
 
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Do you quarantine new coral before adding it to your reef tank?

  • YES always

    Votes: 79 17.8%
  • Sometimes depending (tell us why)

    Votes: 53 11.9%
  • NO never

    Votes: 300 67.4%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 13 2.9%
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