Gyre messing with my bean animal?

[WVNed]

I have 4 1.5 inch drains in my box. 2 are full siphons with nothing in them and 2 have standpipes.

A standpipe is not noisy unless you have a lot of water going down in which case you need to open the main drain valve more until it isnt.

I think the U thing was designed for single drain tanks as a way to overcome noise.
I dont and have never needed to use it because I avoid having single drains.

 

[SallyWho]

May I ask a question?

Why do you have you return pump running via Apex?

Are you controlling the speed? Or just the on/off?

It controls the speed and the on/off. I wanted to run it via Apex because it was easier to do feed and maintenance modes with the press of one button as opposed to having to hit "feed" on the proprietary controller. Plus, the original controller was going wonky. I was going to have to replace the proprietary controller or get the A1 Link, so I went that route.

 

[braappn]

Thanks for the drawing. I am using a modular marine box also, but a smaller one. I have only ever setup one (mine) but it works flawlessly, so maybe describing it will help. I don’t use any elbows in the box at all, just 3 standpipes, and it runs quiet and goes months with no tuning.

Mine looks just like your drawing would if you entirely removed both elbows from the secondary. Exactly what you have drawn without the elbows.


I made simple strainers for each standpipe out of plain pvc slip end caps from the hardware store drilled full of 3/16” holes.

Disclaimer is that I have zero horizontal run in my drain. Just straight down. My results may vary from yours as your drain run looks much different.

I hope any of this helps. Seen your frustrations in your other thread. Don’t give up now keep experimenting and get this thing dialed, you’re close

 

[DaneGer21]

It controls the speed and the on/off. I wanted to run it via Apex because it was easier to do feed and maintenance modes with the press of one button as opposed to having to hit "feed" on the proprietary controller. Plus, the original controller was going wonky. I was going to have to replace the proprietary controller or get the A1 Link, so I went that route.

Are you ramping your return pump speed up and down anytime during the day? Or just for feed modes?

 

[SallyWho]

I have 4 1.5 inch drains in my box. 2 are full siphons with nothing in them and 2 have standpipes.

A standpipe is not noisy unless you have a lot of water going down in which case you need to open the main drain valve more until it isnt.

I think the U thing was designed for single drain tanks as a way to overcome noise.
I dont and have never needed to use it because I avoid having single drains.

Hmmmmmmm. That bears consideration. I think I read somewhere that if you cut your vertical drains at an angle, it will drain quieter- have you heard that?

Are you ramping your return pump speed up and down anytime during the day? Or just for feed modes?

No, I'm not that fancy. It either runs at 60% (or whatever is currently programmed into Apex), or it's off. Unless there are mechanical or software issues, the flow shouldn't be changing measurably.

 

[DaneGer21]

No, I'm not that fancy. It either runs at 60% (or whatever is currently programmed into Apex), or it's off. Unless there are mechanical or software issues, the flow shouldn't be changing measurably.

Ok that rules out one of my theory’s. Thanks for confirming pump speeds

 

[WVNed]

3500gph (2 Jebao dct 8000 95%)
Noise is the fans for the MH lights

I cut the standpipes with a hacksaw so they always have a slight angle.

 

[WVNed]

My 75 gallon has a 2 drain box. I do the same thing. One open drain and one standpipe.

 

[zalick]

I think you should be able to make this work.

The hole in the top of the backup is needed to keep it silent. But it should also have an airline tube attached that bends over to the emergency so in overflow situation it creates a full siphon and empties the box. The volume through a full siphon is MUCH higher than with air in the pipe. But not necessary to solve your issues.

The variation you are describing: both vortex on the main and loud on the backup is hard to reconcile. That's a huge difference in amount of water in the overflow.

Have you tried having the main almost completely closed, so the backup and emergency are handling the majority of the flow. Then slowly 1/4 of a turn at a time opening up the primary. Let it adjust over 15min. Then repeat.

if you adjust it where it seems correct and then just leave it for a few days do you get the variation in noise from both the primary and the back up? Or just one?

 

[DaneGer21]

My bean animal is 100% quiet with NO modifications of the box, pipes, fittings, etc.

I understand the “every tank is different” thing, but a bean animal is a bean animal. You shouldn’t have to be cutting anything. IMO

 

[SallyWho]

Have you tried having the main almost completely closed, so the backup and emergency are handling the majority of the flow. Then slowly 1/4 of a turn at a time opening up the primary. Let it adjust over 15min. Then repeat.

if you adjust it where it seems correct and then just leave it for a few days do you get the variation in noise from both the primary and the back up? Or just one?

Yeah, I've actually done that twice. I can go a whole week without adjustments afterwards. I keep thinking maybe I've got gunk buildup somewhere, but fully closing the gate valve should flush out the 2° drain and fully opening the 1° drain should flush that one.

Usually the noise is coming from the 1° drain- it starts popping and vortexing, but resolves with a little turn of the gate valve (sometimes several little turns back and forth until it decides it wants to run quietly again). Every once in a while, the 2° drain starts getting too much flow and is just noisy.

 

[WVNed]

Here is my other overflow that works exactly the same way
standpipe

open drain

This is an Eshoppes Eclipse M. Very poorly designed IMHO.
The box is so short it allows the main drain to pull a vortex down. I put a plumbing tee in the box. It is just in there and not attached to anything. It breaks up the flow and prevents the vortex from forming.

 

[zalick]

Yeah, I've actually done that twice. I can go a whole week without adjustments afterwards. I keep thinking maybe I've got gunk buildup somewhere, but fully closing the gate valve should flush out the 2° drain and fully opening the 1° drain should flush that one.

Usually the noise is coming from the 1° drain- it starts popping and vortexing, but resolves with a little turn of the gate valve (sometimes several little turns back and forth until it decides it wants to run quietly again). Every once in a while, the 2° drain starts getting too much flow and is just noisy.

it was hard to tell from your pictures but just to confirm all of your drain pipes go straight into your sump and are not connected with a T to anything else correct?

once you have the system setup and you don't adjust it for a week it should constantly run at that same rate indefinitely. the fact that it changes leads me to believe there's something with your return pump. It's changing it's flow rate. Even a tiny change in the return pump will necessitate a tweaking of the overflow.

 

[DaneGer21]

the fact that it changes leads me to believe there's something with your return pump. It's changing it's flow rate. Even a tiny change in the return pump will necessitate a tweaking of the overflow.

In the 5th post, the OP mentioned it took awhile to get it programmed and working via their apex. I wonder if something is “buggy” or incorrect ever so slightly with the programming?

 

[SallyWho]

it was hard to tell from your pictures but just to confirm all of your drain pipes go straight into your sump and are not connected with a T to anything else correct?

Yes, each drain is its own single run.

In the 5th post, the OP mentioned it took awhile to get it programmed and working via their apex. I wonder if something is “buggy” or incorrect ever so slightly with the programming?

It probably is. I bought the Jebao cheeeeaaaaaap, and the original controller was crap from the start. It's supposed to save your power settings (DC pump) during power outages but any time the power flickered or went out, the thing would ramp all the way up to 10. I wouldn't be surprised if there are variations, but right now there's no money to buy an Apex ready pump. :/

 

[WVNed]

and no
My gyres dont bother my overflows.

These are XF 250s
I run XF 350s at 100% in the 240 which is the tank I posted the video from.

 

[zalick]

I just re-read your initial post.
anytime you do something that alters the system temporarily it will take time to get back to its equilibrium. if you if you remove the strainer to clean it the system will be off because the flow through the primary drain will be higher. once you put the strainer back on everything will settle down after a few minutes to a few hours, depending on the system.

How far down under water in the sump does your primary drain go? It should be just submerged. Mine is about 1/4"

if you have the primary drain go into a filter sock and the filter sock starts to plug up in the water level rises even a touch that will alter the rate of your primary drain as well.

while you are tweaking this to get it to work correctly I would suggest not having a filter sock.

 

[SallyWho]

I just re-read your initial post.
anytime you do something that alters the system temporarily it will take time to get back to its equilibrium. if you if you remove the strainer to clean it the system will be off because the flow through the primary drain will be higher. once you put the strainer back on everything will settle down after a few minutes to a few hours, depending on the system.

How far down under water in the sump does your primary drain go? It should be just submerged. Mine is about 1/4"

if you have the primary drain go into a filter sock and the filter sock starts to plug up in the water level rises even a touch that will alter the rate of your primary drain as well.

while you are tweaking this to get it to work correctly I would suggest not having a filter sock.

I thought it was those little changes at first, but I'm not making so many little changes as often as it falls out of equilibrium. For instance, I only clean the strainer during monthly maintenance, and I change my filter sock about once a week. But I get bad noises every few days. But you're right about flow differences after a maintenance task, because without fail I will have to fiddle with the gate valve after doing either of those things.

I'll double check with my next filter sock change, but I believe my primary drain terminates only an inch or so below the water line. It's flex pvc, so it'd be easy to trim back if it's too long.

 

[zalick]

I thought it was those little changes at first, but I'm not making so many little changes as often as it falls out of equilibrium. For instance, I only clean the strainer during monthly maintenance, and I change my filter sock about once a week. But I get bad noises every few days. But you're right about flow differences after a maintenance task, because without fail I will have to fiddle with the gate valve after doing either of those things.

I'll double check with my next filter sock change, but I believe my primary drain terminates only an inch or so below the water line. It's flex pvc, so it'd be easy to trim back if it's too long.

An inch or so is fine. I wouldn't cut it.

When it gets out of whack and noisy, will it stay like that permanently?

 

[SallyWho]

An inch or so is fine. I wouldn't cut it.

When it gets out of whack and noisy, will it stay like that permanently?

Yes, and get progressively louder until I do something about it. It can affect the sump level to the point that my ATO will kick on. I've tried leaving it for as long as 12hrs and the only thing that happened was my nerves getting more and more frayed as the vortex noises got louder.