Hamilton Technologies - Cayman Sun

[Turd Ferguson]

I noticed by go-to online shop in Canada has 250W Cayman Sun pendants on sale at $159 CND. I then went to the Hamilton Tech webpage and didn't see a section for MH Pendants.

Have they been discontinued? Wondering if I should scoop up a backup if they are no longer being made.

If yes, it leads me into my next question, should I be hoarding 250 MH DE Bulbs?

Thanks !

 

[blaxsun]

Yes, you should hoard...

 

[A. grandis]

I noticed by go-to online shop in Canada has 250W Cayman Sun pendants on sale at $159 CND. I then went to the Hamilton Tech webpage and didn't see a section for MH Pendants.

Have they been discontinued? Wondering if I should scoop up a backup if they are no longer being made.

If yes, it leads me into my next question, should I be hoarding 250 MH DE Bulbs?

Thanks !

Yes, all Hamilton fixtures are discontinued. They have only 2 left of the 250W DE version on that website you saw. Get them. The bulbs will still be made by Hamilton, they say.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I bought my system directly from Hamilton Tech in Oct 2022, had it shipped from U.S. and paid the duties..... Around March I checked their website again and noticed all MH products gone from their website. And then I noticed a few months ago that reefsupplies was selling the Hamilton Tech goods.

So to me it looks like they don't want to sell direct anymore but prefer to go through vendors.

I don't think you need to hoard the bulbs, I've been buying the phoenix bulbs from reefsupplies for years which are compatible with the Hamilton Tech. In fact, the Hamilton bulbs is a new product, only since they started selling the Hamilton Tech a few months ago. So now you have a choice of 2 brands of bulbs, previously they sold only the phoenix bulbs with no other option. EDIT - Big Als also sells MH bulbs (but more expensive than reefsupplies), I don't know who else

 

[Bpb]

Genuine question. I thought the word around town was “Hamilton is selling SO many fixtures, they cannot keep them in stock. So many hobbyists and public aquaria/research institutions have them flying off the shelves. It’s a revolution”. Now they’re discontinued? That makes absolutely no sense

 

[A. grandis]

Hamilton discontinued their fixtures a while ago. They said there was no way to continue the production due to the lack of raw materials, not only for their fixtures, but also to make their magnetic ballasts. They are trying to bring back their electronic ballasts at this moment. The last time I spoke with them, about 3 weeks ago, and asked about the fixtures they said their quest for the raw materials is still going, and they are indeed trying to bring back at least some of their fixtures, but the probabilities are still low. They still say that the demand is high. Anyone can call them anytime and ask about the products. The thing that makes sense is that they sold all their stock and people are still calling them today to know when they will have more products available.

 

[Bpb]

Does Hamilton actually manufacture their units? Like get sheet metal in the raw in bulk, Cut it themselves, polish and powder coat, and final assembly? Or are they simply a packaging company who gets bulk reflectors they simply sell for retail?

 

[oreo54]

It's really hard to determine the actual " high demand" level when you are/ were the last supplier.
All " demand" will be channeled in one place

Take a hint from BRS who, at one time stated in 5 years they sold a" handful" of t5 fixtures BUT 100,000 of bulbs.

No " new" market just supplying and old shall I say it, contracting one.

Second what " raw materials" could be in short supply?
Maybe price wise certainly not the material.
Sockets, Aluminum ( even mirrored) , wire?

Things like actual finished reflectors are parts not raw materials in my mind.
I still see lots of magnetic ballast kits ect


Ballast boards... Same thing. Or the Chinese just want to sell finished products not up to standards at times
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/71066/PLUSRITE-7267.htmlhttps://www.1000bulbs.com/product/6017/BS-MH0250F.html
Yea one specific ansi code.

Sorry the wording is deceiving.
Are they just a re-brander or actually build " stuff"?

Both?

Is this supposed booming market just from an earlier sig. downturn or actually new?

Mh market was probably " huge" in relative terms. Dived significantly ( not too long ago it seemed pretty easy to pick up used cheap. (Canary in coal mine) and now may have a slight resurgence, maybe.

I'm sure that is just part of the story.
There is aesthetics ect.

This little soapbox has nothing to do w/ x vs y. Just all about y....

Hopefully some common ground will pop up.
Choice is always good.

 

[A. grandis]

Does Hamilton actually manufacture their units? Like get sheet metal in the raw in bulk, Cut it themselves, polish and powder coat, and final assembly? Or are they simply a packaging company who gets bulk reflectors they simply sell for retail?

They don't just get bulk reflectors an put their sticker on them. Their design is unique. They are the actual designers of their equipment, including the bulbs. They probably have third parties assembling and in a production aside, but they are the ones behind the work! They also always had the best customer service I've know in this hobby.

I'm not sure if I want to discuss or give my opinion about my thinking of the terms in which anyone chooses to define "high demand" nowadays. People might think I actually care about that part, but in reality I just pass what Hamilton and ReefBrite keep telling us all all along. Many hobbyists, like me, have published here what they told us about having a much higher demand in the market for halide gear lately. In what basis anyone defines those terms is to each person's interpretation. I guess the comparison could be to the numbers of gear they are selling now in comparison to the past years, in particular? If so, I would say that is practically the best ways to define that "high demand". No one better than them to let us know that comparison!
After they stopped the production of their magnetic ballasts and fixtures I kinda lost the drive in promoting metal halides. It's now a very restrictive privilege, in that sense, which is a shame!

The hope is the last to die, though. Anything is possible.

 

[oreo54]

Soooo your info is from sellers that profit from the products and, honestly,their main product.

Now I have no reason to believe they are lying but there is a marketing aspect

At one point you would be hard pressed to believe they made their own bulbs.

The only "flaw" is the Radium has been in use for about 120hrs and the Hamilton about 4 hours.

 

[A. grandis]

Soooo your info is from sellers that profit from the products and, honestly,their main product.

Now I have no reason to believe they are lying but there is a marketing aspect

At one point you would be hard pressed to believe they made their own bulbs.

The only American company that sells metal halide gear and produces their own products from scratch that I know is ReefBrite, made in USA.
Hamilton designs their products.
I could be wrong?

 

[RedoubtReef]

I noticed by go-to online shop in Canada has 250W Cayman Sun pendants on sale at $159 CND. I then went to the Hamilton Tech webpage and didn't see a section for MH Pendants.

Have they been discontinued? Wondering if I should scoop up a backup if they are no longer being made.

If yes, it leads me into my next question, should I be hoarding 250 MH DE Bulbs?

Thanks !

You missed out. I just sold 2 Bali and 2 Cayman Sun fixtures with ballasts for $150 each set last month.

 

[jda]

Industry is in flux. Supposedly new fixtures are being designed and made - takes many months. New ballasts also being made by horticulture folks - again take months. Who knows if any of this will materialize. There is demand for fewer companies to do well.

Bulbs are still going to be made. Higher quality stuff from Hamilton, RB and some Chinese ones that will cost a bit more. No shortage of cheap Chinese bulbs - maybe 9 month lifespan, but at 1/4 the cost, might be OK. Again, enough of a demand for fewer companies to do well. Word is that some of the more popular European bulbs will also be made elsewhere, but production will take a while.

BTW - nobody in Europe ruled out NEVER making another production run again. ...only that they are not going to produce them regularly anymore. One company sold their equipment to another to make the bulbs elsewhere and the others still have the equipment. I think that it might be like PEC who quit but has made some larger runs every now and again when they feel like it and stock is really low. If demand never comes back, then they might be done forever.

You can always use grow fixtures and ballasts - 250w and 400w stuff is available but some of the reflectors are often huge. The ballasts are usually really good.

In the end, who knows... bottom line is that if you see something now that you want, grab it. There might be more coming, but who knows when and if you will like lit.

 

[A. grandis]

And the quality of any new Chinese equipment most likely won't be as good as the prime old German or Japanese stuff we had, as in almost anything in life nowadays, which is now the norm. Some of those Chinese bulbs are so bad!!! I recently openned a thread to show the low quality of that SPS brand, as so many people were sking my opinion on that particular bulb. But we will, to a limitation, still be able to use them! The aspects of light quality is what our corals will get, and that's what matters to us who uses halides. Like I've always said... nothing is impossible. Who knows... Ushio could gt back to work producing their line of halides again! There will be always a chance to have someone that wants to invest in something like this. If Tullio still can do it, others could also!
I've exchanged many emails with Radium and they said that their decision isn't negotiable in any way, and that is their final word. I do hope that person who wrote that to me is wrong. Anything could happen. We do need different fixtures available to be able to utilize halides in the proper applications. Without the fixtures we are stuck in getting the old used ones to be able to continue.
Can you imaine if Hamilton gets back to work and make all those fixtures again?? And the magnetic ballasts? And advertise them like they should!? This hobby would see that "revolution"! No one can go to war with bare hands.

 

[oreo54]

Apparently Radium chooses to discontinue them. You got till 2027 for the EU.
No reason to cut supply except as a matter of economics.
https://www.radium.de/en/service-tools/news/fact-check-high-pressure-discharge-lamps-banEU Chart

Going all in in t5/8 leds.. ;)
https://www.radium.de/en/service-tools/news/end-t5-and-t8-fluorescent-tubes-coming
I tried to find an exceptions list but no luck atm.

 

[A. grandis]

Yes, they said they chose, but they also mentioned the reason of the decision, which was the supposed "ban" coming up in EU. It doesn't matter much now.

 

[jda]

They flat out said that they were not making money and that the demand was too low for regular production. These bulbs were used for general purpose lighting in the EU, and elsewhere. They were just found to be good aquarium bulbs by happenstance. The GP uses for Radium are gone, or nearly gone - no way around that probably for the good of everybody - even if they still made the bulbs might be a hard sell to illuminate a movie theatre, restaurant with them today. Reefing crowd was not enough for them to continue regular production.

 

[jda]

BTW - China can make really good stuff. They also can make trash. This is true with any country. Some of the popular MH bulbs that people enjoy and love are currently made in China... same with ballasts and fixtures. Quality costs money, so when you see a $20 MH bulb, you are going to get what you pay for, most likely.

 

[A. grandis]

I'm confused. The person who I was communicating with told me it was a decision because of the regulations...

"we know about the high quality of this product,

nevertheless, due to TIM regulation from EU (WEEE+RoHS)

we decided to phase it out, this decision is not reversible ! Sorry.



Best regards / Meilleures Salutations / Mit freundlichen Grüßen


Holger Gödtke

Radium Lampenwerk GmbH
Radium Export
Dr.-Eugen-Kersting-Straße 6
51688 Wipperfürth
Internet: www.radium.de
Radium Lampenwerk GmbH, Sitz: Wipperfürth
Geschäftsführer: Jörn Krieger
Registergericht: Köln HRB 37474, WEEE-Reg-Nr. DE 36655118



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[oreo54]

Seems a bit of a death spiral.. Every month people can't buy stuff is a month that you lose a sale to available tech.
There probably will be a tipping point.

As to exceptions mentioned earlier.. (for t5/8)
Still is confusing..

https://www.licht.de/en/service/timetable-for-lamp-exit

Exceptions and special cases – which lamps remain?​

• High-voltage halogen lamps linear (R7s ≤ 2,700 lm)

Numerous special lamps and light sources for special applications are only partially affected or not affected at all. These include light sources for emergency and signal lighting and electronic displays, coloured lamps, plant and insect lamps, stage and studio lighting and light sources for ovens.

Important exceptions are:​

• Lamps below 60 lm or above 82,000 lm
• Narrow beam light sources (< 10 degrees)
• Infrared light sources (except R7s in existing lengths)
• UV lamps (> 2mW/klm)
• Special applications e.g. for ovens (300 degrees) or signalling