Hart's Nano SPS Reef - Deep blue shallow tank, oxymoron?!?
- Build Thread
- Thread starter hart24601
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Dana Riddle
2500 Club Member
I learned a long time ago that in order to maintain a semblance of credibility I could not be shy to say "I don't know." With that said, there is evidence that T. maxima veliger acquire zooxanthellae from their parents in a process called horizontal acquisition. OK, but what if culture conditions favor one zoox clade over another? Perhaps the clams growing in the culture troughs are exposed to warmer temps, in conditions favoring Symbiodinium Clade D? Or lower light, favoring Clade C? It is possible (as seen in corals) that the clam could host several clades and environmental conditions could cause one to be dominant.
OP
OP
Very cool info! It would be interesting to get samples from acro Al since he is the only person/company from what I know to close the life cycle of clams with artificial lighting and I think is on generation 2 or 3 of truly aquacultured clams.
Dana Riddle
2500 Club Member
Todd LaJeunesse at PSU was performing zoox DNA analyses, as well as Robin Smith at Florida International University. I've lost track of where they are at present. I'll ask Sanjay at MACNA if we can get a project going.
OP
OP
Well Dana you may be right about a disease going through the clams. The small derasa that was never in the intense light has decreasing mantle color.
If this plays out like the last time I had clams and disease it will kill all the clams and I won't be able to keep one even a year later.
We shall see what happens the next couple of weeks but this whole system might be a failure and will have to just be a reef tank.
Funny how in a 3g pico, without ato, no dosing, just weekly 100% waterchanges a Maxima clam from Petco grows and flourishs. Make a system just for clams it get sick and dies.
What a hobby!
If this plays out like the last time I had clams and disease it will kill all the clams and I won't be able to keep one even a year later.
We shall see what happens the next couple of weeks but this whole system might be a failure and will have to just be a reef tank.
Funny how in a 3g pico, without ato, no dosing, just weekly 100% waterchanges a Maxima clam from Petco grows and flourishs. Make a system just for clams it get sick and dies.
What a hobby!
OP
OP
I will give updates so everyone can know how this all plays out, even if it's going in a terrible way! FWIW no coral has died, acros SPS and LPS seem to be quite happy and tank consumes .5dkh/day and coralline algae is starting on the glass.
So I don't get tempted to get more clams later I added up my clam purchases for this tank. It's less than I thought it would be (thanks LA sales) but a still hefty $1,738.
So I don't get tempted to get more clams later I added up my clam purchases for this tank. It's less than I thought it would be (thanks LA sales) but a still hefty $1,738.
OP
OP
Still waiting to see if the clams I got last weekend (ordered before the mass die off) will show the same signs of bleaching and die. It's a good test to see if the others got cooked or if there is a pathogen in the system as there are still a couple from the original order alive. Will be a couple weeks to tell for sure but at least should give a somewhat solid indication of what went wrong. Fingers triple crossed it's not a pathogen. So far most of the guys last week have attached but so did the 1st batch for a week or two. I don't think that they started moving until I blasted with light, but I can't remember exactly.
I had a mp10 on a FW tank that didn't really need it, so I put it on this one with the tunze already there and have both across the bottom in the back on pulse mode facing each other, so there is a great deal more flow. I wonder if low flow along may have exacerbated the harmful effects of the powerful light?
I had a mp10 on a FW tank that didn't really need it, so I put it on this one with the tunze already there and have both across the bottom in the back on pulse mode facing each other, so there is a great deal more flow. I wonder if low flow along may have exacerbated the harmful effects of the powerful light?
Dana Riddle
2500 Club Member
There are two ways to look at the flow issue, both involving the stagnant water layer that exists around benthic objects (the boundary layer.) In at least some cases, increased flow can promote higher rates of photosynthesis. On the other hand, a thickened boundary layer (several mm thick) could create gradients where good things (micro-elements, etc.) can't make it in, and bad things can't make it out, or do so very slow. In my opinion, flow in aquaria will never reach what a coral/clam will potentially see in nature (I'm talking about an artificial reef I built of concrete blocks disappearing when the surf came up.)
OP
OP
Is the increase in photosynthesis applicable to clams since they can actively pump water? Of course that is internally and not across the mantle. It's interesting to think about how clams regulate internally vs directly across the mantle and what compunds each moves.
Dana Riddle
2500 Club Member
I'm speculating here - if the clam's mantle is thick enough, and zoox density is high, it could be that little light penetrates and internal water motion (inside the valves) could have little impact on photosynthesis. I've always thought of the internal pump as more of a feeding mechanism. In addition, I've wondered if water motion, working against the pump, might hinder feeding - in other words, is clam orientation, in regard to flow, critical?
OP
OP
Just for anyone interested, I got a breakout of unconfirmed dinos, same thing that occured when this was a 3g tank. Decided was worth a try to put that little HOB 5w UV on, basted the rocks and bottom...
By lights out tonight almost all the strings and slime are gone. It must not take all that much UV to kill this stuff off and it must also enter the water column and attach to substrate fairly interchangeably, but it's refreshing to see such a dramatic change.
By lights out tonight almost all the strings and slime are gone. It must not take all that much UV to kill this stuff off and it must also enter the water column and attach to substrate fairly interchangeably, but it's refreshing to see such a dramatic change.
OP
OP
I had been running this system at 77 as I have other reefs, however thinking about where and how these guys are raised outdoors in quite warm areas plus some older threads talking about clams kept in over 80 degree temps I have bumped the tank temp to around 82. No idea if it matters, but it does make sense to me that they were raised in warmer conditions. I also got a tunze 9001 skimmer. I had wanted to run this system skimmerless, but I get foam build up in the sump which is a mess.
I had just assumed with adding so much phyto my phosphate would be pretty high, I was quite surprised to find via hanna ulr it was just a couple ppb which due to errors could be zero, nitrate was also quite low which it had been running about 10ppm or more. I dosed phosphate and nitrate and might have to keep on top of that better. If needed I could remove the acropower and make a solution of phosphate and nitrate and dose both at consumption rates if needed. The low nutrients explain the dino outbreak though.
I had just assumed with adding so much phyto my phosphate would be pretty high, I was quite surprised to find via hanna ulr it was just a couple ppb which due to errors could be zero, nitrate was also quite low which it had been running about 10ppm or more. I dosed phosphate and nitrate and might have to keep on top of that better. If needed I could remove the acropower and make a solution of phosphate and nitrate and dose both at consumption rates if needed. The low nutrients explain the dino outbreak though.
Sunny Goold
Active Member
I was thinking of asking that question but wondered if it was stupid LOL. But now I think I will orientate my clam so the predominate flow moves from the inlet to the exhalent. I think that makes sense not to have it opposite as the clam would be sucking in stuff it just exhaled [emoji15]
Dana Riddle
2500 Club Member
No worries! I've been in the saltwater hobby since 1964 and there isn't a stupid question that I haven't thought of or asked.
OP
OP
Quite embarrassing to post, and quite frankly wish I hadn't started a build thread but I'm up to 20 clams killed. I have never had any FW or SW tank idea go so poorly. Pretty much my worst case scenario - kill clams while throwing more money at it and really have no idea why they didn't make it. There are still some clams in there but at this point I don't know why they wouldn't die.
Will keep adding phyto for now, have done 3 gallons total but seemingly for no reason.
The sps and coral are still doing well, so it would seem this tank is on track to be a typical nano reef which will be at least different with the top down viewing nature but keeping that top down means not as much flow as I would like for sps. If can't keep clams would also have liked to select different fish, but ya can't win them all!
Will keep adding phyto for now, have done 3 gallons total but seemingly for no reason.
The sps and coral are still doing well, so it would seem this tank is on track to be a typical nano reef which will be at least different with the top down viewing nature but keeping that top down means not as much flow as I would like for sps. If can't keep clams would also have liked to select different fish, but ya can't win them all!
Sunny Goold
Active Member
Sorry mate - this really sucks [emoji15]
reef lover
It's a reef thing....
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
Hudson Valley Reef Keepers
Hospitality Award
518 Reefers
My Tank Thread
Sorry to hear...
Similar threads
New Posts
-
-
-
-
Cherry Corals Summer Spectacular Live Event! Saturday June 15th 2pm-2am EST- Latest: Klx110ripper
