Have trouble with hammers

[StartingATank]

So, this may sound confusing, but no matter what, I can’t keep small polyp hammers, which are most hammers, but big polyp hammers, closer to frammers but not frammers, I can keep alive. Is there any logic to this? They are usually under same conditions

 

[Evil1]

Small/big polyp hammers? I am confused? Can you explain what you are describing?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

We don't have a crystal ball brother, if you want help, please advise your parameters type of lighting and flow. A tank picture would really help too.

 

[StartingATank]

Let me see if I got a pic of the difference

 

[StartingATank]

Ok so the first one is large polyp, and the second is small polyp. Here are my parameters:
Nitrites ammonia are 0
Nitrates are around 1-5
Phosphates are around .01-.05
Alk is at about 8-9
Calcium is at 440
Magnesium is at 1330 or 1430
Ph is 8-9, I think

 

[StartingATank]

I use Red Sea lights reefled 50 at 100% blues 10 hours a day, 50% whites 8 hours a day. Flow is low to medium and it is random. They are about 1-3 to 1/2 way up the tank. No predators nearby

 

[StartingATank]

Also, I have tried maybe 7 small polyp and have 2 large polyp. The large polyp ones are Alive and thriving, but for every small polyp one I have had they always go into polyp bailout with the exception of one, which jab BJD, but it was the only one that had it

 

[Evil1]

What are you using to test your water? Nitrates are low by my standards I like to keep mine anywhere between 10 and 40. Phosphate is ok. What other corals do you have? Any SPS? If not LPS and softies like higher nutrients.

 

[mcarroll]

I think you're seeing differences in flow within the tank.

None of them are going to be ultimately happy with dissolved nutrient levels that low, especially regarding PO4.

IMO if you eliminate excessive filtration (skimmer+live rock is enough) or otherwise get dissolved nutrient levels up to satisfactory levels (according to your corals) then flow differences will matter less. (If there is no excess filtration, consider dosing liquid nutrients.)

IMO, in the short term target ≥ 0.10 ppm for PO4 and ≥ 5 ppm for NO3. See how things go from there.

 

[StartingATank]

Yeah I am trying to raise my nutrients, I am using Hanna’s and some Red Sea test kits. I have put them in the same flow as the other hammers that are doing good and they still died

 

[StartingATank]

I do not have any SPS as I cannot keep any kind of SPS alive. The only SPS that didn’t bleach immediately was a pavona, but I have tried cyphastrea, stylocoeniellas, bird nests, several montis, and some other ones I forgot about

 

[StartingATank]

I try to dose but I have noticed that anytime I dose, phosphates never react to the phosphate dosing and nitrates over react. One time I dosed for 10 ppm nitrates and it went up to 50. It may have been my error though

 

[mcarroll]

Yeah I am trying to raise my nutrients, I am using Hanna’s and some Red Sea test kits. I have put them in the same flow as the other hammers that are doing good and they still died

Let us know what products you are using for dosing, and what volume you are considering for your tank in the calculations and we can double check the math at least.

It's very possible if the tank is starved for N or P that there will be but surge in uptake when you dose.....it's a good idea IMO to re-test an hour or so after you dose to check this. Re-dose to target levels if needed. Test daily for a while until you have the tank's rhythm down pat....dosing should get less and less necessary.

Corals should survive much better once you have established good nutrient levels.

This might make sense if I can explain it.... :) Flow is also crucial to delivery of dissolved nutrients....hence my earlier comment. If dissolve nutrient levels are "low" and a particular coral is getting somewhat less flow than another coral, it will struggle or maybe even bleach or RTN while the first coral seems to do OK. Flow has to be able to get past each coral's mucus boundary layer....and weak flow can hamper or halt that process. But if nutrient levels are TOO low, then no amount of flow will help since there aren't enough nutrients in the water even if tank water does get to the coral.

 

[StartingATank]

Yeah I am trying to raise my nutrients, I am using Hanna’s and some Red Sea test kits. I have put them in the same flow as the other hammers that are doing good and they still died

Let us know what products you are using for dosing, and what volume you are considering for your tank in the calculations and we can double check the math at least.

It's very possible if the tank is starved for N or P that there will be but surge in uptake when you dose.....it's a good idea IMO to re-test an hour or so after you dose to check this. Re-dose to target levels if needed. Test daily for a while until you have the tank's rhythm down pat....dosing should get less and less necessary.

Corals should survive much better once you have established good nutrient levels.

This might make sense if I can explain it.... :) Flow is also crucial to delivery of dissolved nutrients....hence my earlier comment. If dissolve nutrient levels are "low" and a particular coral is getting somewhat less flow than another coral, it will struggle or maybe even bleach or RTN while the first coral seems to do OK. Flow has to be able to get past each coral's mucus boundary layer....and weak flow can hamper or halt that process. But if nutrient levels are TOO low, then no amount of flow will help since there aren't enough nutrients in the water even if tank water does get to the coral.

I will do that, but I have just went out if town so I will let you know once I test and dose

 

[StartingATank]

Yeah I am trying to raise my nutrients, I am using Hanna’s and some Red Sea test kits. I have put them in the same flow as the other hammers that are doing good and they still died

Let us know what products you are using for dosing, and what volume you are considering for your tank in the calculations and we can double check the math at least.

It's very possible if the tank is starved for N or P that there will be but surge in uptake when you dose.....it's a good idea IMO to re-test an hour or so after you dose to check this. Re-dose to target levels if needed. Test daily for a while until you have the tank's rhythm down pat....dosing should get less and less necessary.

Corals should survive much better once you have established good nutrient levels.

This might make sense if I can explain it.... :) Flow is also crucial to delivery of dissolved nutrients....hence my earlier comment. If dissolve nutrient levels are "low" and a particular coral is getting somewhat less flow than another coral, it will struggle or maybe even bleach or RTN while the first coral seems to do OK. Flow has to be able to get past each coral's mucus boundary layer....and weak flow can hamper or halt that process. But if nutrient levels are TOO low, then no amount of flow will help since there aren't enough nutrients in the water even if tank water does get to the coral.

Ok so I am using Hanna test kits for nitrates and phosphates, phos are low range and nitrates are high range for testing device. I use bright wells neo phos and neo nitro. I am currently testing so I will put in the numbers and dosing amount once I have done so

 

[BigDangler]

age of tank? age of rock? start with live rock? curious

edit: nvm saw your tank thread.. i usually have trouble with some lps stoneys.. still no idea why.. some flourish some just dont like to extend and retract...

 

[StartingATank]

Ok so phosphates are at ~.19 ppm, which has increased since I last tested, because for a while my numbers were bottomed out, but I was experiencing this problem beforehand. Nitrates are at 8ppm. So, if I were to do a .02 ppm increase in phosphates, I would dose ~2.5 ml? And for 3 ppm nitrate increase, ~12.5 ml? Are my calculations correct?

 

[StartingATank]

age of tank? age of rock? start with live rock? curious

edit: nvm saw your tank thread.. i usually have trouble with some lps stoneys.. still no idea why.. some flourish some just dont like to extend and retract...

Yeah I have found this with my tank too, because not only do I have the hammer problem, but for some reason, a scoly and indo don’t do well, but still survive until an outside physical stressor like algae kills them, but they never thrive, while I have a Trachy that is doing great and has all kinds of immobile inverts like feather dusters and some sponges and stuff

 

[mcarroll]

Ok so phosphates are at ~.19 ppm, which has increased since I last tested, because for a while my numbers were bottomed out, but I was experiencing this problem beforehand. Nitrates are at 8ppm. So, if I were to do a .02 ppm increase in phosphates, I would dose ~2.5 ml? And for 3 ppm nitrate increase, ~12.5 ml? Are my calculations correct?

Well, those directions for "0.02" are not for you....the product is supposed to be used to LOWER nutrients so the instructions won't directly make sense for you.

They say to use the following quantity on the website instructions, but also make sure your bottle instructions are the same as these.

To add 0.02 ppm PO4 then add 1-ml per 25 US-gallons

PO4
If you are starting from 0.00 ppm of PO4, then you'd need to add 5 mL per 25 gallons of tank volume to get the 0.10 ppm PO4 target you're aiming for.

NO3
The dosing rate for NeoNitro is the same. Add 1 mL of NeoNitro per 25 gallons to get +0.02 ppm NO3. But we want 5 ppm, so if you're starting from 0.0 ppm NO3 then you'll need to add 250 mL per gallon.

I don't know the size of your tank to tell you the exact quantities to add.

Yeah I have found this with my tank too, because not only do I have the hammer problem, but for some reason, a scoly and indo don’t do well, but still survive until an outside physical stressor like algae kills them, but they never thrive, while I have a Trachy that is doing great and has all kinds of immobile inverts like feather dusters and some sponges and stuff

Compared to the wild, it's difficult to supply food to aquarium corals in most cases.

Because of that water flow and dissolved nutrients become more important resources for corals in our tanks vs the wild.

Many (most?) of our tanks have weak (low velocity) flow, especially when compared to what is likely in the wild.

All things considered, it can't be too surprising when (eg) @Thales reports than the Steinhart has reproducing acroporas in their tank with REALLY high nutrient levels.....but the myth about low nutrients being some kind of key to "SPS success" still lives on. Same with the "high light for SPS" myth. Facts – who needs em! ;)

 

[StartingATank]

Ok so phosphates are at ~.19 ppm, which has increased since I last tested, because for a while my numbers were bottomed out, but I was experiencing this problem beforehand. Nitrates are at 8ppm. So, if I were to do a .02 ppm increase in phosphates, I would dose ~2.5 ml? And for 3 ppm nitrate increase, ~12.5 ml? Are my calculations correct?

Well, those directions for "0.02" are not for you....the product is supposed to be used to LOWER nutrients so the instructions won't directly make sense for you.

They say to use the following quantity on the website instructions, but also make sure your bottle instructions are the same as these.

To add 0.02 ppm PO4 then add 1-ml per 25 US-gallons

PO4
If you are starting from 0.00 ppm of PO4, then you'd need to add 5 mL per 25 gallons of tank volume to get the 0.10 ppm PO4 target you're aiming for.

NO3
The dosing rate for NeoNitro is the same. Add 1 mL of NeoNitro per 25 gallons to get +0.02 ppm NO3. But we want 5 ppm, so if you're starting from 0.0 ppm NO3 then you'll need to add 250 mL per gallon.

I don't know the size of your tank to tell you the exact quantities to add.

Yeah I have found this with my tank too, because not only do I have the hammer problem, but for some reason, a scoly and indo don’t do well, but still survive until an outside physical stressor like algae kills them, but they never thrive, while I have a Trachy that is doing great and has all kinds of immobile inverts like feather dusters and some sponges and stuff

Compared to the wild, it's difficult to supply food to aquarium corals in most cases.

Because of that water flow and dissolved nutrients become more important resources for corals in our tanks vs the wild.

Many (most?) of our tanks have weak (low velocity) flow, especially when compared to what is likely in the wild.

All things considered, it can't be too surprising when (eg) @Thales reports than the Steinhart has reproducing acroporas in their tank with REALLY high nutrient levels.....but the myth about low nutrients being some kind of key to "SPS success" still lives on. Same with the "high light for SPS" myth. Facts – who needs em! ;)

Ok so it seems as if neither of my bottles say that. For the phosphate instructions, it says apply neophos as directed below to attain a minimum phosphate concentration of ~0.02 ppm. DO NOT EXCEED 0.04 PPM! Multiply tank captaincy (33 gal) by ppm increase by 3.785 = ml of product to use. It then goes on to stay stuff about reef biofuel and how to use it. For nitrate bottle, it says apply neonitro as directed below to attain an ultimate nitrate concentration of ~3 ppm, do not increase more than .5 ppm per day. Multiply tank capacity by desired increase by .1261 = ml added. It then does on to talk about reef biofuel and katalyst