Hawaii fish ban

[litsoh]

I just wanted to touch on the way some of this is worded. The Biota facility that breeds the yellow tang is in Hawaii on Oahu and we are not involved in any government lobbying. We were funding the research of yellow tang and breeding yellow tang prior to the closure because we believed it was a popular and important fish for the aquarium trade that didn't have a captive-bred alternative. We increased production when the industry demanded it.

Well shoot, do they house any other species there? I can just place an order and drive there myself so that I won't have to pay shipping fees

Just kidding, but I had no idea that you guys had a facility on island

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I think that's one of the big problems because when they were cheap many hobbyists and people in the industry saw them as disposable and so they weren't cared for properly.

I think the implication that more expensive fish will teach hobbyist to take better care, is the wrong attitude to have. It's the equivalent of punishing a person in order to force a desired behavior. That's not the right approach... is it?

The teality is, there are people who think there's something wrong with sustainably catching fish from the ocean and putting them in our tanks. Even people in this thread think that buying a captive bred fish is some how ethically better. I don't see a logical reason why ethically one is better than the other.

What's wrong with accidentally killing a fish and learning from your experience? Does it make you a better person because you spent $150 for that fish vs $30? I don't know if there's a deliberate campaign to slowly change peoples' minds in thinking captive bred is better in order to justify higher prices or not, I just can't make it make sense. I sort of draw a parallel of this being like bottled water. Why get something for free out of your tap when you can pay for it?

 

[areefer01]

More expensive does not make a better choice.

It is the only choice today if you are not local. It has nothing to do with cost. Bali, Biota, ORA are not living the life of luxury or like a Wallstreet broker.

 

[nuxx]

Now, you can look like a high roller, when you throw them away!

LOL

I pretty much gave them away when I broke my tank down lol

 

[Biota_Marine]

I think the implication that more expensive fish will teach hobbyist to take better care, is the wrong attitude to have. It's the equivalent of punishing a person in order to force a desired behavior. That's not the right approach... is it?

The teality is, there are people who think there's something wrong with sustainably catching fish from the ocean and putting them in our tanks. Even people in this thread think that buying a captive bred fish is some how ethically better. I don't see a logical reason why ethically one is better than the other.

What's wrong with accidentally killing a fish and learning from your experience? Does it make you a better person because you spent $150 for that fish vs $30? I don't know if there's a deliberate campaign to slowly change peoples' minds in thinking captive bred is better in order to justify higher prices or not, I just can't make it make sense. I sort of draw a parallel of this being like bottled water. Why get something for free out of your tap when you can pay for it?

I understand where you're coming from but the expense of our fish isn't to teach better behavior but may be a good result or side effect of it. When we captive-breed yellow tang it's at minimum 3 months of skilled labor, feeds, rent, electricity, etc. in each batch of fish while to collect the same number we produce in a quarter could be caught in a few boat trips from the wild.

We encourage hobbyists that purchase from us to take care of the animals we breed because we have taken such expert care of them for months prior to shipping them out to customers. So it's not just cost but the effort associated with it.

It's the same reason why a 17 year old buys a beater car rather than a BMW. Maybe it's better to make mistakes on cheaper, abundant species that are constantly replacing themselves in the wild over an important herbivore. There are many "jellybean species" on the reefs that are constantly replacing themselves with already short lifespans why cut an estimated 15-25 year lifespan short because of a lesson. No one is learning a lesson on a peppermint angelfish nor should they. I encourage beginners to start reefing with gobies, blennies, or damselfish. The Pratt Institute teaches students about the aquarium hobby by first taking care of aiptasia in a jar before anything else.

I'm also not one to anthropomorphize the fish or get into the ethics or sustainability of wild collection but when a fish's sole purpose being bred in aquariums for aquariums, accepts prepared diets, lives through aquarium life and the fluctuations that entails why is there a need to take it from the wild? It's the reason we breed mandarins, with the incredibly low survival rate from the wild you're lucky if one lives past 3 months and they're even microspeared from the wild.

 

[OctaviusBrine]

Look at the pics of my yellow tang from biota I got three months ago. You can clearly see the transparent color when I received him vs bright yellow today.

Wow I hope mine darkens up like that beautiful fish.

 

[albano]

I understand where you're coming from

I'm also not one to anthropomorphize the fish or get into the ethics or sustainability of wild collection but when a fish's sole purpose being bred in aquariums for aquariums, accepts prepared diets, lives through aquarium life and the fluctuations that entails why is there a need to take it from the wild? It's the reason we breed mandarins, with the incredibly low survival rate from the wild you're lucky if one lives past 3 months and they're even microspeared from the wild.

never heard about microspearing before!
Thanks for the link

 

[AlohaJacklyn]

I understand where you're coming from but the expense of our fish isn't to teach better behavior but may be a good result or side effect of it. When we captive-breed yellow tang it's at minimum 3 months of skilled labor, feeds, rent, electricity, etc. in each batch of fish while to collect the same number we produce in a quarter could be caught in a few boat trips from the wild.

We encourage hobbyists that purchase from us to take care of the animals we breed because we have taken such expert care of them for months prior to shipping them out to customers. So it's not just cost but the effort associated with it.

It's the same reason why a 17 year old buys a beater car rather than a BMW. Maybe it's better to make mistakes on cheaper, abundant species that are constantly replacing themselves in the wild over an important herbivore. There are many "jellybean species" on the reefs that are constantly replacing themselves with already short lifespans why cut an estimated 15-25 year lifespan short because of a lesson. No one is learning a lesson on a peppermint angelfish nor should they. I encourage beginners to start reefing with gobies, blennies, or damselfish. The Pratt Institute teaches students about the aquarium hobby by first taking care of aiptasia in a jar before anything else.

I'm also not one to anthropomorphize the fish or get into the ethics or sustainability of wild collection but when a fish's sole purpose being bred in aquariums for aquariums, accepts prepared diets, lives through aquarium life and the fluctuations that entails why is there a need to take it from the wild? It's the reason we breed mandarins, with the incredibly low survival rate from the wild you're lucky if one lives past 3 months and they're even microspeared from the wild.

My question comes strictly from lack of personal knowledge so I'm not trying to sound too ignorant. I'm hoping you can explain...

If we (Hawaii) have a ban, how is your company able to sell/ship Tangs from Hawaii (oahu) but a person like myself isn't able to ship personal tangs (that I had way before the mandate) to my friends on the mainland? I'm just curious what the ban/mandate includes and excludes that allows one entity more rights than another?

And how much are the yellow tangs for Kama'āina? Could I come buy and purchase other fish/corals? Just curious. Thank you for the info

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Pretty much this, it's either $300+ or buy a friend a plate lunch to see if he can find one for me while he spearfishes

They are 165$

 

[Lionfish hunter]

My question comes strictly from lack of personal knowledge so I'm not trying to sound too ignorant. I'm hoping you can explain...

If we (Hawaii) have a ban, how is your company able to sell/ship Tangs from Hawaii (oahu) but a person like myself isn't able to ship personal tangs (that I had way before the mandate) to my friends on the mainland? I'm just curious what the ban/mandate includes and excludes that allows one entity more rights than another?

And how much are the yellow tangs for Kama'āina? Could I come buy and purchase other fish/corals? Just curious. Thank you for the info

The ban is on commercial wild caught fish. Biota yellow tangs are captive bred.

 

[litsoh]

They are 165$

So just about $200 when you factor in shipping. It’s not $300+ I’ll admit, but it still isn’t cheap

 

[litsoh]

And how much are the yellow tangs for Kama'āina? Could I come buy and purchase other fish/corals? Just curious. Thank you for the info

Can we also get the Kama’aina discount if we bring our Hawaii state IDs

 

[Biota_Marine]

My question comes strictly from lack of personal knowledge so I'm not trying to sound too ignorant. I'm hoping you can explain...

If we (Hawaii) have a ban, how is your company able to sell/ship Tangs from Hawaii (oahu) but a person like myself isn't able to ship personal tangs (that I had way before the mandate) to my friends on the mainland? I'm just curious what the ban/mandate includes and excludes that allows one entity more rights than another?

And how much are the yellow tangs for Kama'āina? Could I come buy and purchase other fish/corals? Just curious. Thank you for the info

Some mentioned it above but it's because it's a commercial collection ban. Residents are still able to collect fish for their personal tanks for personal use and I've also heard of stores or service companies able to sell collected fish throughout the islands if collected before the ban. We're able to sell them because they're all captive-bred and not taken from the wild, there is another company on the island also working on breeding Hawaiian ornamentals so if another individual is breeding any Hawaiian fish either personally or commercially they're able to be sold.

We don't allow any non-employees at our breeding facility to protect Biosecurity unfortunately and that facility only regularly breeds 2-4 species of fish at a given time. So there isn't much of a selection like you'd find from a local fish store.

Can we also get the Kama’aina discount if we bring our Hawaii state IDs

This sounds like a great idea I can ask the team about this, I don't see why not.

 

[BZOFIQ]

It is the only choice today if you are not local. It has nothing to do with cost. Bali, Biota, ORA are not living the life of luxury or like a Wallstreet broker.

I simply stated that Bali, Biota, ORA are not a better alternative, just an alternative, an expensive alternative.

Cost is a big factor for most, regardless of your position.

 

[areefer01]

So just about $200 when you factor in shipping. It’s not $300+ I’ll admit, but it still isn’t cheap

Define cheap? You can still obtain one. Let us say the hobbyist is average at keeping fish. Picks up a Yellow Tang from Biota and paid $200.00 US. That is a conservative estimate because A shipping will vary by location and B I personally add an item or two be it swag or corals to make shipping make sense. The Yellow Tang will be small and young. I won't know the precise age but I will know it is anywhere from 8 months to a year or so old. Guessing they can live anywhere from 10 to 30 years in captivity (remember I said average hobbyist - we are all different and, well, Murphy) but let us pick 10 years. The cost per day for owning that fish is maybe $0.05. That is cheap for a healthy animal that will live a long time when properly cared for. And you will be able to enjoy its full journey...

True story. Cuban Basslets used to be banned in the US or very limited and priced over $3,500.00 US dollars. Thanks to Biota's effort they are readily available for $600.00.

 

[areefer01]

I simply stated that Bali, Biota, ORA are not a better alternative, just an alternative, an expensive alternative.

Cost is a big factor for most, regardless of your position.

It isn't a position though - it is the only option today. I ignore the noise on politics so to be very blunt if you want a yellow tang this is the only option for most.

I understand your concern about cost but it is what it is. You nor I get to set it. We get to choose if we purchase or not. The hobby is expensive be it a 1/4" coral frag or a LED light.

Hope your day is going well.

 

[BZOFIQ]

It isn't a position though - it is the only option today. I ignore the noise on politics so to be very blunt if you want a yellow tang this is the only option for most.

I understand your concern about cost but it is what it is. You nor I get to set it. We get to choose if we purchase or not. The hobby is expensive be it a 1/4" coral frag or a LED light.

Hope your day is going well.

Day is going great - thanks for checking.

I hear blah blah blah - you're repeating yourself with ton of words and not much content.

You said the following, back it up. Why?

 

[BZOFIQ]

Day is going great - thanks for checking.

I hear blah blah blah - you're repeating yourself with ton of words and not much content.

You said the following, back it up. Why?

Nevermind, it wasnt you.

Notice I didnt edit my previous post - my mistake, appologies.

Point still stands in response to @Solasis

 

[Tony Thompson]

Some mentioned it above but it's because it's a commercial collection ban. Residents are still able to collect fish for their personal tanks for personal use

Hi Jake hope you are well, best regards to you and team Biota. Always a pleasure to see industry represented on an open forum to answer questions and receive feedback.

I would like to just reiterate my previous post for clarity, mainly for other comments rather than yours.

There is no Ban in Hawaii.

There was never, nor was it proposed for a ban on local collection or aquaculture. The temporary injunction was restricted to the commercial collection licences and the legal right for DNLR to issue them.

New licences for commercial fisheries (export) are to be issued under the new guidelines of limited number of licences, catch quota and species limitations.

 

[Solasis]

Nevermind, it wasnt you.

Notice I didnt edit my previous post - my mistake, appologies.

Point still stands in response to @Solasis

It's very fair. The same reason I buy QT'd fish even if they are more expensive. Buying captive bred offers inherent values over wild caught when it comes to disease and hardiness. Not here to debate the ethics on reef2reef even though this does play into my decision (along side the hardiness and disease aspect) and I'm assuming for others. Namely the amount of death to get your single wild caught fish into the store. Not sure what your point is otherwise, sorry.