Heater Control Question/Confusion

[campindaddy]

So, I'm planning out a new 90g build, and beginning to stock up on gear. I'm new to the controller side of the hobby, so I've done a ton of research and video watching of course, and have settled on definitely using an Apex on my build. It seems that many people tout the ability of the Apex to control temp/heaters very accurately, but then I see a ton of people suggesting to use separate heater controllers and only use the Apex as backup. I understand the constant cycling of the outlet(s) could cause issues, but then couldn't this be handled with a separate EB4 either from the start, or if/when the outlet eventually failed? I feel like I'm actually losing the true control of the Apex if I'm using an additional controller in between. I'm going to use a primary and secondary heater, so would either need 2 $60 Inkbirds for independent control (same cost as an EB4), or 1 Inkbird and then the secondary heater into the EB832 for backup only. Am I missing some advantage of the separate heater controllers?

 

[Snoopy 67]

It boils down to an extra level of safety. I have been using my apex for a LONG TIME to control my temperature.

 

[laverda]

First there is no reason to control the tempature super accurately. Doing so will just run up your electric bill, wear out everything involved and your corals and fish will not be as hardy. Temperatures on the reefs vary and quickly, depending on a lot of things. If you maintain you temp at exactly 78 exactly; what is going to happen in a power outage when the temp swings to 70 or 82? Your corals are not going to be able to deal with it? Keeping the temp with in a 2 or 3 degree range a day is all you need. Your corals and fish will be hardier and more likely to handle a heater failure.
The big advantage of a controller is actually turning the heater on or off at specific temps. The simple bimetal switches and contacts used in many heater are very inconsistent as to when they come on and shut off.

I would put one heater on your Apex and one on an inkbird or other controller. Set one a 1/2 to a degree lower than the other, this will be the back up. Set the on off temps a degree or so apart. This way none of them should be short cycling and everything will last much longer. It also backs up the Apex against failure.

 

[Jeffcb]

I just got a JBJ 800 watt. It has is own controller. Per the manual it turns on 1 degree below were it is set and heats until 1 degree above setting. Its set at 78. Temp swings from 77 to 79. Its almost too much amperage (6.7) but I have it pugged into Apex with the Apex set to shut the outlet off at 81. It the JBJ controller fails and sticks on , the Apex is a back up and should shut JBJ off.

 

[campindaddy]

Thank you for the replies! I’m not so much worried about tight tolerance on temp. More so what the best redundancy setup is, and what I would gain with a separate heater controller. I think these have answered my question. Thx!

 

[kerbfish]

I’m just getting started with my apex for heater control. Have been using for 2 weeks and works great but I noticed both my heaters randomly not drawing wattage when they should be on.

I let house get cooler last night and for first time temps dropped below my set range. I take a look and only one heater one, then later the other on and original one off......then I set both to “on”. One kicks on, one kicks off....check again both off.....what the heck......??

that mean both the internal thermostats are junk on both these heaters ? Anyway apex is at fault?

 

[laverda]

It could be the heaters or your apex. I would not trust having both heaters on the apex any way! Use a Rancho to control one. The Rancho is an industrial temperature controller and way more reliable than the apex.. Have one be your primary heater and the other your secondary heater. Set the secondary a degree or so lower than the main one. That way your heaters, apex and Rancho will all last longer, as they will not be short cycling. One of the down falls of heaters is they are not very consistent about the Temps they come on or shut off at. Depending on the heater the temperature variation can be 3-4 degrees from one time to the next. So if you have your heater set to shut off at 78. One time it may do so at 78, and the next it may be 80 or 81. Because of that you want to adjust it to shut off a degree or 2 higher then what your apex on Rancho is set 4. It is very possible your apex is not turning on the sockets when it should be as well. I have had my apex turn things from "auto" to "ON" pn 3 separate occasions. Both examples are why I would use a separate controller for the second heater.

 

[Hugh Mann]

Well, this is my plan for heaters in my tank, so take from it what you will.

Two titanium heaters with build in controllers and separate probes, set to the temp I want, both plugged into separate inkbirds.

Expensive, but it would take a huge series of failures to fry or freeze the tank.

 

[kerbfish]

It could be the heaters or your apex. I would not trust having both heaters on the apex any way! Use a Rancho to control one. The Rancho is an industrial temperature controller and way more reliable than the apex.. Have one be your primary heater and the other your secondary heater. Set the secondary a degree or so lower than the main one. That way your heaters, apex and Rancho will all last longer, as they will not be short cycling. One of the down falls of heaters is they are not very consistent about the Temps they come on or shut off at. Depending on the heater the temperature variation can be 3-4 degrees from one time to the next. So if you have your heater set to shut off at 78. One time it may do so at 78, and the next it may be 80 or 81. Because of that you want to adjust it to shut off a degree or 2 higher then what your apex on Rancho is set 4. It is very possible your apex is not turning on the sockets when it should be as well. I have had my apex turn things from "auto" to "ON" pn 3 separate occasions. Both examples are why I would use a separate controller for the second heater.

I pay for the apex and now I need
Something called a rancho?! LOL!

 

[kerbfish]

I pay for the apex and now I need
Something called a rancho?! LOL!

Plus I thought the apex over runs the heater, for a forced shutoff...

 

[rob taft]

I pay for the apex and now I need
Something called a rancho?! LOL!

The controller is a Ranco unit

ETC Supply. ETC Controllers

www.rancoetc.com

 

[Joe31415]

Regarding Ranco controllers. I highly recommend them. I have two of them at the moment. One in the DT and one in one of my QTs. At least partially because they keep much more accurate temps than the onboard (ie Aqueon) or inline (ie Finnex) controllers. Not that you can just check the temp with a thermometer and adjust those accordingly, but it's nice to be able to know that the temp is fairly close to what you set it to.
Also, Ranco controllers are really, really widely used and very, very trusted in the HVAC business. I think my store has at least 4 or 5 of them (analog too, they've been running for a good long time). If they mis-reported the temp or stuck on/stuck off on any kind of a regular basis their market share would plummet. For example, if just about any of the Ranco controllers I have in my building were to break, I'd be throwing out $5k-$25k worth of food if I didn't catch it on time. For $60ish dollars, that's not bad.

And with that, I keep thinking about adding a commercial defrost timer to my system. For those not in the industry, a defrost timer has power going to one set of terminals, then at certain times for a set length of time de-energies those terminals and energies a different set of terminals. The idea being that you can turn off the compressor and or fans) and turn on the defrosters. I've been thinking about installing one for my auto water changer. It could shut off the ATO for, say, an hour, power up the AWC and then switch it back.
But, for the time being, I have it set so my AWC starts filling about 15 minutes before it starts removing. I know that means it's pulling out some clean water, but it also means there's little to no risk of the ATO kicking on.