HELP! Acros bleached in 24 hrs!

[BlueDevil]

Chemipure is a very good addition, especially if space is limited. I have been using their products since the 80's!! I still use them on my smaller systems. I wish I had an answer for your coral loss, sometimes it can be nearly impossible to pinpoint, especially when you haven't changed anything, other than adding the corals. I like to QT my corals first and I also drip acclimate, slowly. Hang in there!!

Regarding ChemiPure, have you had any issues with Iron or Aluminum levels? I recently had a Triton test done on my water and it showed elevated levels of those two. Randy Holmes suspects that it might be related to either the ChemiPure or Phosguard that I was using at the time.

 

[WetWhistle]

It is a good way of doing it. It slows you down and makes you think about the situation instead of knee jerk reaction to something and people start making unnecessary changes. You find out the scope of things so to speak. I do hope you get things under control as it always sucks to have coral loss.

Reading back over the thread it could have something to do with the media removal like you mentioned causing a swing, but it is just weird it happened right after the new additions. I looked back at your original post with the Apex data and those changes in numbers should not have caused this. As a swing over a few points over a few days should be fine. It is the large quick swings that can cause quick problems. Your Apex would have more then likely noticed a big swing in PH if it had.

Thinking out side of the box here. The new addition of frags and RTN\bleach might have just been a coincidence that happened at the same time when you added the new corals as when the old corals started showing signs of an older unrelated issue. Something else might have caused the original frags to have issue and because it happened at the same time they looked to be related when they are not. So the new frags could have just been doing what new sps do sometimes, they RTN and die shortly after being introduced. Change your time line and think further back and ignore the new additions for now. What could you have done the few days before your original timeline that could have caused the original frags to rtn\bleach? Check your Apex logs for any large swings. Treat the new and old frags as separate issues for now. Any stray current in the tank? Grounding probe? On the original frags check for signs of AEFW or other pests. Hit this issue from a few angles.

Over my years in this hobby I have seen unrelated issues seem to be related when they are not. It would make sense with you having two unrelated issues instead of one. Not saying it is but it is possible. I have ran into this situation a few times.

 

[Jmcdaniel0]

Regarding ChemiPure, have you had any issues with Iron or Aluminum levels? I recently had a Triton test done on my water and it showed elevated levels of those two. Randy Holmes suspects that it might be related to either the ChemiPure or Phosguard that I was using at the time.

Let me pull up the chemical bonding of those two and I'll see. The only way that they could be doing that is ether they have electrons n their .outer valence levels that are easily bonded with something else. Which would result in an ionic bond be created with something else. In order for AL to be released it would have to be readily bendable with something else. Meaning it is a single covalent bond. Which would make the entire compound unstable.

 

[BlueDevil]

@WetWhistle - I keep fairly detailed notes on any major changes to my tank and there been just a couple of out of the ordinary 'incidents' that I can think of in the past couple of months:

1. In mid-December, one of my acros appeared to have a Vermetid snails take residence in it and caused some tissue damage. I superglued the hole and the tissue damage stopped right there. In fact, the frag was just now starting to encrust over the superglued portion of the stem.

2. In early December I had an issue with my ATO (kalk). I was still new to all the technology (ATO, Apex etc) and after a routine water change, I did not realize that I had not topped up the water until it hit the 'laser eye' of the ATO. As a result, it topped off quite a bit of the kalkwater into my system. I had my Apex programmed to shut the ATO if it the pH hit 8.6, so when that happened the ATO shut off. Unfortunately, when the pH came back down to about 8.5 the power to the ATO was restored, and as a check, it did the usual 10 second dump of water. This once again jacked up my pH to 8.6. It took me a bit to realize what was going on. I finally remedied the situation by slowly bringing the pH down. The entire pH swing in this incident was between 8.0 and 8.6.This was more than a month ago though so could it be that incident that is just now causing this issue?

I can't think of any other issues since the time I first added the SPS frags. No AEFW that I have seen, no grounding probes, no chemicals near the tank.

I'm dreading going back home this evening. I hope there hasn't been any further damage during the day today.

Thanks for the help in brainstorming potential causes!

 

[Reeflogic]

I have never had any issues using Chemipure, ever. I do not have any experience with Phosgaurd, but Randy knows his chemistry, so I would definitely follow his advice.

 

[Mark75]

Sorry to hear this Yash!

I lost a nice frag myself not to long ago, never could explain what happened.

It was in my tank for two months but never really grew but always had good polyp extension. One night it turned solid white and that was that so to speak.

I think some times there are problems with the frags and they do not show any symptoms, we only realize there was a problem when they die. If you had seen the frag I lost the day before you would have thought it was healthy as a horse.

 

[Reeflogic]

I posted as you posted! Just read your new post and wanted to add that when I first started dosing Kalk in my ATO, I had a similar experience and spiked my PH up around 9, it did not cause any short or long term issues, I may have just been lucky, but I think an 8.3 - 8.6 ph swing a month ago, likely didn't lead to your current situation, just my 2 cents!

 

[BlueDevil]

Sorry to hear this Yash!

I lost a nice frag myself not to long ago, never could explain what happened.

It was in my tank for two months but never really grew but always had good polyp extension. One night it turned solid white and that was that so to speak.

I think some times there are problems with the frags and they do not show any symptoms, we only realize there was a problem when they die. If you had seen the frag I lost the day before you would have thought it was healthy as a horse.

Thanks! That's whats so puzzling/frustrating. I'd much rather have a problem and know the cause and take the necessary steps to remedy it than have to remain in the dark wondering when the next time is that it will recur.

I posted as you posted! Just read your new post and wanted to add that when I first started dosing Kalk in my ATO, I had a similar experience and spiked my PH up around 9, it did not cause any short or long term issues, I may have just been lucky, but I think an 8.3 - 8.6 ph swing a month ago, likely didn't lead to your current situation, just my 2 cents!

I know a pH swing is bad, but I would have thought that if there were any issues, they would have slowly showed up over the past month and not just overnight when things looked like just fine a day earlier.

 

[Esage]

Regarding ChemiPure, have you had any issues with Iron or Aluminum levels? I recently had a Triton test done on my water and it showed elevated levels of those two. Randy Holmes suspects that it might be related to either the ChemiPure or Phosguard that I was using at the time.

I'll need to find the article but I think the Phosguard is causing that.

 

[Jmcdaniel0]

I pulled this be from an advanced aquarist article by Farley.

Significance Of Aluminum Release From Phosguard
Is the amount of aluminum released from Phosguard significant? Moreover, is it adequate to explain the results on corals that have been reported by aquarists? This question is extremely difficult to answer without some biological experiments. The tests run above show reasonably high concentrations of aluminum. Possibly high enough to cause problems for the organisms shown in Table 1 . But these tests were carried out on a large amount of Phosguard in a small amount of water. Tests with larger volumes of water might well result in lower aluminum concentrations. Additionally, the exact nature of the aluminum in these tests may well be different than in the toxicity tests reported above. That is, the nature may be particulate vs. colloidal vs. soluble vs. complexed by organics, etc.



I'm currently researching the avenues of colloidal and soluble Al.

Al that is completed by organics should be able to be removed via mechanical filtration and a protein skimmer.

This may take more than a little bit of time so bear with me.

 

[Esage]

I pulled this be from an advanced aquarist article by Farley.

Significance Of Aluminum Release From Phosguard
Is the amount of aluminum released from Phosguard significant? Moreover, is it adequate to explain the results on corals that have been reported by aquarists? This question is extremely difficult to answer without some biological experiments. The tests run above show reasonably high concentrations of aluminum. Possibly high enough to cause problems for the organisms shown in Table 1 . But these tests were carried out on a large amount of Phosguard in a small amount of water. Tests with larger volumes of water might well result in lower aluminum concentrations. Additionally, the exact nature of the aluminum in these tests may well be different than in the toxicity tests reported above. That is, the nature may be particulate vs. colloidal vs. soluble vs. complexed by organics, etc.



I'm currently researching the avenues of colloidal and soluble Al.

Al that is completed by organics should be able to be removed via mechanical filtration and a protein skimmer.

This may take more than a little bit of time so bear with me.

That's it

 

[Jmcdaniel0]

Yea. It's an interesting article, but ultimately the answer he gives is, I don't know maybe.

 

[BlueDevil]

Yea. It's an interesting article, but ultimately the answer he gives is, I don't know maybe.

Isn't that an answer to most questions in this hobby. Maybe, maybe not? [emoji4]

 

[WetWhistle]

It is more likely that something within a few days or the day of that caused the issue. Something from the month before I guess it is possible but not as likely as something closer to the date. It had to be big enough or quick enough to cause SPS issues but nothing else. So it is a tricky one. At this point all you can do is an educated guess so it doesn't happen again.

Welcome to SPS keeping. It has always been a love hate relationship to me with them. lol

 

[CastAway]

When you're ready, I will gladly gift you another valida frag to replace the one you lost. Please consider that a done deal, just say when.

 

[BlueDevil]

It is more likely that something within a few days or the day of that caused the issue. Something from the month before I guess it is possible but not as likely as something closer to the date. It had to be big enough or quick enough to cause SPS issues but nothing else. So it is a tricky one. At this point all you can do is an educated guess so it doesn't happen again.

Welcome to SPS keeping. It has always been a love hate relationship to me with them. lol

I am finding that out first hand! It involves so much more effort (making sure parameters are spot on, lighting is ideal, flow is ideal etc etc...) that I didn't have to do a whole lot of with my softies. However, seeing pictures of tanks with thriving SPS colonies is what's keeping me going

When you're ready, I will gladly gift you another valida frag to replace the one you lost. Please consider that a done deal, just say when.

Thank you so much, Jeff! I appreciate that very much!

 

[Esage]

Yea. It's an interesting article, but ultimately the answer he gives is, I don't know maybe.

I stopped using it

 

[BlueDevil]

I stopped using it

Me too!

 

[WetWhistle]

I avoid using products unless it is for Alk, calk or mag as I like to keep things simple and cheaper. I find to many products can complicate troubleshooting and raises costs and they sometimes even cause the issue itself. Products like Phosguard to me are more of a temp fix to a situation not a long term solution. Those product do have a time in place in a emergency situation don't get me wrong. I like to use proper husbandry practices and planning of my aquascape and tank to combat and cut down on any potential buildup or problem in the future. Proper planning goes a long way in helping to avoid a build up of excess nutrients down the road. To me if the answer to my question to a product after a long winded article is I don't know maybe I tend not to use it. lol

 

[BlueDevil]

A little bit of an update. This evening, there doesn't seem to be any further damage since I removed the affected pieces last night. One stick has a faded spot on its main stalk that I'm keeping an eye on. It was the same yesterday so I'm not sure if it is also RTN. I will check it again tomorrow and if it seems to have grown I will take this piece out as well. I hate to jump the gun on it since it is not a piece I can cut and essentially lose all of it.

One other update: while I was looking over my tank, I noticed a couple of worm looking things running around the base of a couple of corals. I know without a picture it will be like throwing darts in the dark. However, the best I can do is describe it. They are extremely slim and about 1 cm long. Black body. And they move very quickly. After several attempts I was able to suck one up using a baster. I tried to take a picture of it but all it looks like is a spec of dirt in the water. I would need a microscope to be able to get a good image of them. I know they are not red bugs as they don't look anything like them. In the absence of luckily knowing what they might be, can y'all throw out some names of common pests, especially to acros besides red bugs and AEFW. I can maybe look them up to see if any of them look anything like what I saw on the rock. I'm hoping they are just harmless critters.