Help Diagnosing QT Failures from Setup Issues

[kboogie]

I had a 3" Blueface Angel and 3" Aussie Pyramid Butterfly in QT for over 25 days. Both fish were eating well. I fed spirulina-enriched mysis, brine, and Pacific plankton daily, with a second feeding of TDO pellets. On Monday, the Blueface Angel stopped eating and was constantly hiding. Tuesday morning, they were dead. Tuesday morning, the butterfly ate less enthusiastically than normal, and this morning it was found dead. On Tuesday, I tested everything; there was no ammonia, 60 ppm Nitrates, no Nitrites, 8.0 pH, Salinity 1.018, temperature 78, and CopperSafe 2.54. I am trying to figure out what could be the issue, the fish showed no signs of illness. I tried to think of what could of gone wrong and I have re-evaluated all of my recent losses during QT. The losses I have had with my current setup and process are as follows:

Batch 1
- Bluestreak Cleaner Wrasse 3 days in
- Blueside Fairy Wrasse 7 days in
- Solar Fairy Wrasse 10 days in
- Pintail Fairy 5 days in

Batch 2
- Solar Fairy Wrasse (attempt #2) 2 days in
- Orangeback Fairy Wrasse 3 days in
- Lubucks Fairy Wrasse 10 days in

Batch 3
- Blueface Angel 27 days in
- Aussie Pyramid Butterfly 28 days in

Batch 1 had other fish who were fine including a Semilartus Butterfly, an Assuie Harlequin Tusk, a Cuban Hog, and a Collare Butterfly.


Batch 3 did have an issue where for the first 15 days my CopperSafe level was 3.54 ppm. I miscalculated the volume in my and life got in the way with back to school new teen driver, and clients, resulting in my not testing levels for 15 days. Once discovered I quickly did a water change and got my CopperSafe level down to 2.54 ppm. The fish showed no signs of stress during that time, eatting well, breathing normal, no redness that I have seen when fish have a chemical toxicity issue.

Batch 1 and 3 use a setup based on a 27 gallon Home Depot bin, Batch 2 uses my old Red Sea 130D. I do believe I have something going on bateria wise in my 130D and I am bleaching that system. I don't know what is going on with my bin.



Here is walk through of my QT setup. Please provide your thoughts.

 

[BryanM]

#fishmedics

 

[kboogie]

One of the things I believe might be an issue is toxins from the bin being exposed to saltwater for long periods of time.

 

[helmsreef]

Are you not using any type of mechanical filtration in your qts? There is more pollution in the water than just nitrates. The easiest setup would be a 20 gallon glass tank, hang on filter, powerhead, biomedia like seachem matrix and maybe an air stone depending on your medication you are using. I would think they may of died from some kind of waste build up or possibly from what you are thinking.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I had a 3" Blueface Angel and 3" Aussie Pyramid Butterfly in QT for over 25 days. Both fish were eating well. I fed spirulina-enriched mysis, brine, and Pacific plankton daily, with a second feeding of TDO pellets. On Monday, the Blueface Angel stopped eating and was constantly hiding. Tuesday morning, they were dead. Tuesday morning, the butterfly ate less enthusiastically than normal, and this morning it was found dead. On Tuesday, I tested everything; there was no ammonia, 60 ppm Nitrates, no Nitrites, 8.0 pH, Salinity 1.018, temperature 78, and CopperSafe 2.54. I am trying to figure out what could be the issue, the fish showed no signs of illness. I tried to think of what could of gone wrong and I have re-evaluated all of my recent losses during QT. The losses I have had with my current setup and process are as follows:

Batch 1
- Bluestreak Cleaner Wrasse 3 days in
- Blueside Fairy Wrasse 7 days in
- Solar Fairy Wrasse 10 days in
- Pintail Fairy 5 days in

Batch 2
- Solar Fairy Wrasse (attempt #2) 2 days in
- Orangeback Fairy Wrasse 3 days in
- Lubucks Fairy Wrasse 10 days in

Batch 3
- Blueface Angel 27 days in
- Aussie Pyramid Butterfly 28 days in

Batch 1 had other fish who were fine including a Semilartus Butterfly, an Assuie Harlequin Tusk, a Cuban Hog, and a Collare Butterfly.


Batch 3 did have an issue where for the first 15 days my CopperSafe level was 3.54 ppm. I miscalculated the volume in my and life got in the way with back to school new teen driver, and clients, resulting in my not testing levels for 15 days. Once discovered I quickly did a water change and got my CopperSafe level down to 2.54 ppm. The fish showed no signs of stress during that time, eatting well, breathing normal, no redness that I have seen when fish have a chemical toxicity issue.

Batch 1 and 3 use a setup based on a 27 gallon Home Depot bin, Batch 2 uses my old Red Sea 130D. I do believe I have something going on bateria wise in my 130D and I am bleaching that system. I don't know what is going on with my bin.



Here is walk through of my QT setup. Please provide your thoughts.

Just some general thoughts to start with:

I’ve never used those bins - have you had any successful quarantine using them, or have all batches in them had issues? I’m not a fan of opaque or translucent bins, I need to see the fish clearly in order to assess them daily.

Although these fish do fine in 2.50 ppm copper, I prefer to use 2.25 ppm to give a margin of safety.

You aren’t using any reducing chemicals are you? These include dechlor, formalin or ammonia removers. In excess, these can break the copper/amine bond, releasing more toxic free copper.

Something acute happened to the blue face and pyramid - a toxic event of sone sort? Both species are prone to flukes, but that doesn’t cause sudden death like that. Just to check - those were the only two fish in the tank at the time, right?

 

[kboogie]

Just some general thoughts to start with:

I’ve never used those bins - have you had any successful quarantine using them, or have all batches in them had issues? I’m not a fan of opaque or translucent bins, I need to see the fish clearly in order to assess them daily.

Although these fish do fine in 2.50 ppm copper, I prefer to use 2.25 ppm to give a margin of safety.

You aren’t using any reducing chemicals are you? These include dechlor, formalin or ammonia removers. In excess, these can break the copper/amine bond, releasing more toxic free copper.

Something acute happened to the blue face and pyramid - a toxic event of sone sort? Both species are prone to flukes, but that doesn’t cause sudden death like that. Just to check - those were the only two fish in the tank at the time, right?

Good questions.

When I replaced my DT, I stored all my fish in four of these bins for five or six weeks with no obvious issues. No losses during that time other than my Tusk jumping out. I wonder if it is possible for the CopperSafe or Prazi to have a reaction.

I have not used any chemicals; I make my own RODI, and I use seeded filter sponges. The only things that go in are medication (CopperSafe and Prazi powder).

I completely agree that something acute happened, and I'm struggling to figure out what it could be.

I have another batch coming tomorrow (Friday), and I plan to use a brand-new, never-used glass aquarium I picked up for the original QT Hotel system.

 

[kboogie]

Are you not using any type of mechanical filtration in your qts? There is more pollution in the water than just nitrates. The easiest setup would be a 20 gallon glass tank, hang on filter, powerhead, biomedia like seachem matrix and maybe an air stone depending on your medication you are using. I would think they may of died from some kind of waste build up or possibly from what you are thinking.

The only mechanical filtration comes from what the sponge picks up.

I would not rule out waste buildup. I do have shells from the clams on a half shell I use to get the butterflies eating.