Help Diagnosing Yellow Tang

[Zach0918]

BTW - 3 cubes of frozen - means various things - if you're using 3 cubes of xxxari brand you're not feeding enough in all likelyhoIt take

BTW - 3 cubes of frozen - means various things - if you're using 3 cubes of xxxari brand you're not feeding enough in all likelyhood

I could feed more frozen, but I am feeding quite a bit of pellets too (3x per day). All other fish are good sized.

 

[MnFish1]

I could feed more frozen, but I am feeding quite a bit of pellets too (3x per day). All other fish are good sized.

If the fish is eating - (whatever) - and losing weight - the options are malabsorption - or a parasite internal - that is eating more food than the fish is. Did you QT it - treat it - if not - I would treat it for Internal parasites. Additionally - How big is the fish?

 

[Zach0918]

If the fish is eating - (whatever) - and losing weight - the options are malabsorption - or a parasite internal - that is eating more food than the fish is. Did you QT it - treat it - if not - I would treat it for Internal parasites. Additionally - How big is the fish?

What would you recommend medicating with?

 

[MnFish1]

What would you recommend medicating with?

You could try metronidazole or prazipro. There are protocols for oral as well as in a hospital tank. @Jay Hemdal what do you think?

 

[Tamberav]

I could feed more frozen, but I am feeding quite a bit of pellets too (3x per day). All other fish are good sized.

What types of frozen were you feeding?

I am personally not a huge fan of some of the frozen cubes they sell tbh... I feel like there are so much better options to keep fish healthy... that if a fish does have a internal parasite.. certain diets/foods seem to really help keep fish fat while other diets + internal parasites end up being a losing battle. I am a big fan of LRS fish frenzy and live black worms. I do also clip some nori in now and again.

I feel this fish will die if it continues to just pick at food, it is VERY emaciated at this point. I don't think doing nothing is an option. I would QT the fish and treat for internal parasites. This is the recipe (under gelatin fish food):

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods Jay Hemdal c. 2020 Oral medications are an excellent way to target internal diseases of fishes. Marine fish absorb aquarium water, so in certain cases, they “drink” enough medication from the water to effect a cure. However, freshwater fish actively export...

www.reef2reef.com

If you can't get the fish to eat, then I would try using metro or prazi in the QT water and hope the fish can drink some.

 

[MnFish1]

What types of frozen were you feeding?

I am personally not a huge fan of some of the frozen cubes they sell tbh... I feel like there are so much better options to keep fish healthy... that if a fish does have a internal parasite.. certain diets/foods seem to really help keep fish fat while other diets + internal parasites end up being a losing battle. I am a big fan of LRS fish frenzy and live black worms. I do also clip some nori in now and again.

I feel this fish will die if it continues to just pick at food, it is VERY emaciated at this point. I don't think doing nothing is an option. I would QT the fish and treat for internal parasites. This is the recipe (under gelatin fish food):

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods Jay Hemdal c. 2020 Oral medications are an excellent way to target internal diseases of fishes. Marine fish absorb aquarium water, so in certain cases, they “drink” enough medication from the water to effect a cure. However, freshwater fish actively export...

www.reef2reef.com

If you can't get the fish to eat, then I would try using metro or prazi in the QT water and hope the fish can drink some.

Absolutely agree - some of the cube type foods are 90 percent water. so for example 3 cubes is actually very little food.

 

[Zach0918]

As I asked is that with the pellets not enough nutrition? Of course I want to dix this if it is an issue but the other fish are not skinny at all.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This is a reef tank in my classroom. This was the first summer after putting the tank up in May. As you know the summer was hot this year and unfortunately the AC in my room couldn't keep up. The tank temps reached as high as 83.5. We lost a number of corals, anemones, but no fish. This led to a dump of nutrients in that water. Of course this to algae so I began hitting it with water changes pretty aggressively and did try to increase the salinity slightly while doing that. I also had to add some sand to replace the sand that was siphoned out. The tang had been eating relatively normally but has gotten worse as of late. He ate this morning but then wouldn't touch any other food I offered (pellets, nori, frozen mysis, frozen herbivore, garlic flavored flakes). I was hoping that his odd behavior was due to all the changes going on causing stressed. I stopped doing water changes for the last 2 weeks to try and help him recover but that doesn't seem to be working. I don't know if it was a coincidence but he did seem more active today after I added the bacteria. He was at least moving around the tank, although not quickly. At this point I just don't know what to do. I am afraid to do nothing but also to do something in QT and kill him from stress. This is my first time dealing with sick fish like this.

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Reef
Aquarium water volume: 110.4g
Filtration type: Sump, skimmer, carbon, GFO, filter socks
Lighting: 2 AI Hydra 32HD
How long has the aquarium been established? 5 months
Other fish: 2 clowns, 2 chromis, flame hawkfish, melanurus wrasse (all seems fine, eating normally)

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
Temperature: 78F
pH: 8.28
Salinity / specific gravity: 36 ppt
Ammonia: 0.4-0.6
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 35

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? (see below) No
Are any invertebrates affected? Limited CUC right now but haven't noticed anything
Are the affected fish still feeding? Limited feeding
What remedies have you tried so far? Different food types, just tried nitrifying bacteria (Dr Tims One and Only)
Digital image of the fish with the health issue, taken under white light
- if needed, indicate by drawing a line around the area in question.
not under white light but picks are above
Short video of the fish (linked YouTube videos work well)
(Live)

The tank isn't normally this cloudy, it got like that after adding bacteria

Thanks for the in-depth information, sorry I missed your post this morning!

The yellow tang is breathing way too fast, almost at the point of respiratory collapse (where the gills don't even close before they start to open up again). Normally, if that were caused by a protozoan disease, like velvet, other fish would be showing rapid breathing also. I didn't see that here.

That points to some major systemic disease or problem with the tang. Trouble is, those issues usually do not have a clear cause. I have had thin fish do this right before they die, but this tang, while thin, shouldn't be at that point yet.

Jay

 

[MnFish1]

As I asked is that with the pellets not enough nutrition? Of course I want to dix this if it is an issue but the other fish are not skinny at all.

IF the fish is/are eating the pellets - it's enough. If you can add something like LRS - all the better

 

[MnFish1]

He wasn't 500 but wasn't cheap either, although I am not really following you on this point. The transfer was about 4 months ago and he was doing well at one time. He was constantly swimming around, eating foods, picking at rocks. There has been a definite decline. And I am worried that the eating is getting worse and worse. As you can see he is really skinny.

the point - sorry - was that you can get cheap fish - at various places - and they do not always do well. For example - at one store here - there is a small yellow tang for $39.99 - at another store the cost is close to $400. It looks like a small tang (not old) - and thin - as already said. I can't remember if you quarantined/treated it from the start - but given this information - I would say - you should move it to a hospital tank and treat it with an antiparisite medication (assuming there is no external evidence of disease - spots, etc) the respirations look off - which could suggest numerous things.

If I'm repeating something I have Said at other times. It was not meant as an insult to you or your fish. Hope this helps

 

[Zach0918]

Update

So I went to the best reef shop in my area and talked to fish specialist for quite some time. Based on all the info he did not think internal parasites were likely. He said he his best guess is that the coral die off in the summer produced an ammonia spike (although we both thought it was odd that there was still ammonia months later). The red that I thought was for salinity changes he thought was probably ammonia burn. He think that the tang, being the most sensitive fish in the tang is just the noe being most affected. He recommended monitoring and treating the ammonia level of the tank closely but said QTing that this time did not make sense.

As I mentioned before, I had already added a full dose of Dr. Tim's one and only bacteria a couple days ago. This seemed to produce a slight bacteria bloom as the water was cloudy for a day and a half. When I tested the ammonia level on Thursday night it was 0. It was then again tested on Friday morning and was 0.0-0.2 but I thought this may be just test kit error.

Since adding the One and Only the tang has been moving around the tank a lot more. You can tell he is weak but no longer stays in one corner. I was really concerned on Friday because he refused to eat anything (I started soaking in GarlicGuard) and I thought that was gonna be the end of it but I have fed pellets with the auto feeder 4 times today (I am purposely going heavy on feeding rn) and has eaten every time (see clips below). He is not eating massive portions but responds to the feeder turning on and pick pellets of the sand bed every time. He continues to swims around the tank much more than before. Of course he is still really skiny but I have a little hope for him. It's hard to tell on video if his breathing has slowed at all. I am planning going in to try some garlic guard soaked frozen and nori.

Is there anything else I should do other than continue to feed aggressively, monitor and cross my fingers? Thanks for everyone's input it is greatly appreciated.

Live Stream (you can rewind):



9/24 Feeding Clips

First Feed: https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxup4K29wOeW_R1ZqZRl6fLq74fsld6-D_
First Feed Part 2: https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx3_iOLWRbf2Mwyot0ibbo8RYBWBr501IM
First Feed Part 3: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxWEX-E15knvueref3JUs69NJStJ7eNVs3
Second Feeding: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxTnCULhWZLqQoTmV1YMhWK7PftE58cve-
Third Feeding: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxMhPwDAiRuKYMJ7l4komlLmrCcx-OXgQo
Fourth Feeding: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxuYKIW5cuCvCFJNuuRTYYXo20LEtQgFRH

 

[MnFish1]

Can you remind everyone - did you ever measure a high ammonia level? I apologize since I've read several posts with similar problems

 

[Zach0918]

Yes it was reading at 0.4 to 0.6

 

[MnFish1]

Yes it was reading at 0.4 to 0.6

was theat total or free ammonia

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry, I couldn’t get the clips to play on my phone, not sure why not…..
Jay

 

[Zach0918]

Things have taken a turn for these worst, it seems like there might be something wrong with its swim bladder. Its swimming tilted forward with its head facing downwards.

So I went to the best reef shop in my area and talked to fish specialist for quite some time. Based on all the info he did not think internal parasites were likely. He said he his best guess is that the coral die off in the summer produced an ammonia spike (although we both thought it was odd that there was still ammonia months later). The red that I thought was for salinity changes he thought was probably ammonia burn. He think that the tang, being the most sensitive fish in the tang is just the noe being most affected. He recommended monitoring and treating the ammonia level of the tank closely but said QTing that this time did not make sense.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry - I tried the videos again, and they say they are not available.

An ammonia reading around 0.50 could be the root of this issue, depending on the pH of the water.

Jay

 

[Zach0918]

Ammonia is at zero. There hasn't been a reading for 5 days. Not sure what is causing all this, maybe just never recovered from the initial ammonia spike in the summer? Who knows. Very sad.

 

[Zach0918]

Update 9/30

The yellow tang is still alive. It was doing really bad earlier this week and I thought it would be dead soon for sure. Then the next day it started picking at the rocks again, ate pellets and some frozen. It seems like the breathing has slowed somewhat but it still seems fast to me. It is still rather lethargic. I am also noticing that when the return pump and skimmer go off feeding it heads to the surface of the water. I am wondering if this is because it has a compromised respiratory system and the dissolved oxygen in the water drops when those pieces of equipment go offline? I posting again to see if there is anything I can do for it other than keep trying to feed? I was considering doing a methylene blue bath in case it was in fact suffering from ammonia poisoning? Not sure if this makes sense or if I should just let it try to recover on its own? Any advise is greatly appreciated.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Methylene blue is just a temporary fix and doesn't do anything for ammonia issues - it acts as a temporary oxygen donor, but only while the fish is in the bath with it.

Jay