Help! Dosed Citric Acid into Reef Tank Water

[GARRIGA]

The pH is what you need to fix.

Thy being the case then shouldn’t surface agitation solve this naturally without having to do a WC or add chemicals to stimulate the process. Tank should quickly stabilize with the room co2 vs a WC which will shock inhabitants quickly. Speaking in general terms as not all would have the ability to quickly remove inhabitants.

No clue how citric acid affects tank parameters other than just being an acid that depletes pH but I’m assuming also kh and perhaps that’s the one items I’d try increasing although not sure in that. Perhaps soda ash as that will also increase pH and not affect calcium.

 

[SeaShine]

You mean alk rose right not PH? If so, that is correct due to all your water changes. It matches the alk on the salt mix that is being used.

Oh and yes, sorry, I meant alk. Also, I just posted a pic of the tank as it is now in my response to Twentyleagues a minute ago, although I forgot to copy the quote so I think it just posted to no one in particular.

 

[SeaShine]

Thy being the case then shouldn’t surface agitation solve this naturally without having to do a WC or add chemicals to stimulate the process. Tank should quickly stabilize with the room co2 vs a WC which will shock inhabitants quickly. Speaking in general terms as not all would have the ability to quickly remove inhabitants.

No clue how citric acid affects tank parameters other than just being an acid that depletes pH but I’m assuming also kh and perhaps that’s the one items I’d try increasing although not sure in that. Perhaps soda ash as that will also increase pH and not affect calcium.Okay, great. Then I won't do another water change right now. The cloudiness is disturbing (I posted a pic of the tank above somewhere). And I already removed the livestock. The corals are what's left. The alk is already at 11 and rose from 10.1 yesterday, so if anything, I'd like it to drop a little but right now think I'll just wait and hope for the best. Thanks for your help.

 

[SeaShine]

Cloudiness in tank water and current state of the corals... Some seem to have rebounded. Some not yet. Fingers crossed.

 

[GARRIGA]

I’m asking and not suggesting although I’m just one that opposes WC as the solution to all events.

However, there are event where the only solution is a WC. Just not sure this was one of them.

Thinking there’s a base that can counter the acid and know from using an acid buffer such as Seachem that it converts carbonates for co2 and done slowly that has a temporary pH drop and guessing that’s what happened with citric acid. That likely converted all carbonates to co2 and only emergency being that needed to be raised although I’d do that slowly vs a sudden WC being my approach because life just got shocked with a sudden drop on both kh and pH then a WC would shock it again. Osmotic shock not something I know enough if than it’s usually not good.

Although not sure that shock less stressful than having to ensure lower pH and kh for an extended period. Biologist I’m not but know enough about stress that I tend to avoid it in my own life.

 

[SeaShine]

I’m asking and not suggesting although I’m just one that opposes WC as the solution to all events.

However, there are event where the only solution is a WC. Just not sure this was one of them.

Thinking there’s a base that can counter the acid and know from using an acid buffer such as Seachem that it converts carbonates for co2 and done slowly that has a temporary pH drop and guessing that’s what happened with citric acid. That likely converted all carbonates to co2 and only emergency being that needed to be raised although I’d do that slowly vs a sudden WC being my approach because life just got shocked with a sudden drop on both kh and pH then a WC would shock it again. Osmotic shock not something I know enough if than it’s usually not good.

Although not sure that shock less stressful than having to ensure lower pH and kh for an extended period. Biologist I’m not but know enough about stress that I tend to avoid it in my own life.

Well, unfortunately, I don't know enough about the chemistry and I at the time didn't even know what was wrong. Everything was closing down/dying pretty rapidly. My RFAs were literally turning inside out and my fish were swimming upside down. All I could think to do was change the water and my coral store also advised it so, that's what I did. The RFAs are all back to normal and at least the tank is stable now. Since the alkalinity is 11, I'm assuming the tank is no longer acid.

 

[GARRIGA]

Well, unfortunately, I don't know enough about the chemistry and I at the time didn't even know what was wrong. Everything was closing down/dying pretty rapidly. My RFAs were literally turning inside out and my fish were swimming upside down. All I could think to do was change the water and my coral store also advised it so, that's what I did. The RFAs are all back to normal and at least the tank is stable now. Since the alkalinity is 11, I'm assuming the tank is no longer acid.

Understood. My question was directed at what another might do including myself should this occur. Counter an acid with a base as it might remedy the issue faster.

 

[Dan_P]

Thy being the case then shouldn’t surface agitation solve this naturally without having to do a WC or add chemicals to stimulate the process.

The goal is getting the pH corrected quickly and replacing any alkalinity that was destroyed by the acid.

The citric acid was a big carbon dose and will be digested, replenishing the alkalinity. I don’t know how long this will take, hence the advice.

 

[SeaShine]

The goal is getting the pH corrected quickly and replacing any alkalinity that was destroyed by the acid.

The citric acid was a big carbon dose and will be digested, replenishing the alkalinity. I don’t know how long this will take, hence the advice.

Thanks. Okay, I just did a little research to try to understand. I see what you mean about carbon raising the alkalinity. So, I basically added a huge amount of carbon. Maybe there's residual citric acid in the tank (as per my limited understanding) that is continuing to raise the alkalinity. I do have surface agitation and will try to increase it a little more and then I guess I'll just wait.

 

[GARRIGA]

The goal is getting the pH corrected quickly and replacing any alkalinity that was destroyed by the acid.

The citric acid was a big carbon dose and will be digested, replenishing the alkalinity. I don’t know how long this will take, hence the advice.

Wouldn’t adding baking soda or soda ash to quickly replace that lost based on required kh not be the fastest solution?

For example, if the acid dropped kh from 7 to zero then adding enough base to bring it back to 7 I’d expect would be a faster solution than removing 50% to 100% then replacing and not everyone will have 100% immediately available.

I’m also assuming there might still be more acid remaining because kh can’t go below zero and as base is added some of that will be utilized by that remaining acid and might require additional base.

I’m also assuming pH will rise back quickly and needs to be monitored as to how quickly that base can be added.

Not having ever done this but this seems logical according to what I know and now wondering what I’d have to do if this happened to me. Upcoming build will not be pragmatic for me to store even 25% of a WC and trying to accomplish 100% not happening quick enough to solve this for me. Yet adding base seems practical and well within reach.

 

[Dan_P]

Wouldn’t adding baking soda or soda ash to quickly replace that lost based on required kh not be the fastest solution?

sodium carbonate is soda ash. So, yes

 

[GARRIGA]

sodium carbonate is soda ash. So, yes

Final consideration being calcium chloride plus TM part C to balance the salinity from added sodium followed by removing tank water then replaced by ATO if overall salinity exceed 35 ppt. In essence. One part solves the acid but that alone creates an imbalance.

Don’t know if any of this was mentioned. I was just replying to the part on pH which caught my attention and suddenly recalled when I inadvertently added Seachem Flourish thinking I was adding salinity. Why I no longer add anything other than food in the early morning. However, adding more phosphates not as hard to solve.

 

[Dan_P]

Final consideration being calcium chloride plus TM part C to balance the salinity from added sodium followed by removing tank water then replaced by ATO if overall salinity exceed 35 ppt. In essence. One part solves the acid but that alone creates an imbalance.

I am pretty sure that not many sodium ions are going to be added when the pH is raised, but if there were, some sort of ion rebalancing would be needed.

 

[GARRIGA]

I am pretty sure that not many sodium ions are going to be added when the pH is raised, but if there were, some sort of ion rebalancing would be needed.

I think we’re talking about two different things. I’m suggesting using a base such as soda ash to raise kh and not pH. In a situation such as this where citric acid was inadvertently dosed and it had a severe enough impact to require a massive WC then I’m suggesting it might be easier to solve the large drop in alkalinity with something such as soda ash or baking soda and at that point I’m expecting a significant imbalance of ions and perhaps the proper approach being that correction by use of the Balling Method since I’m assuming to correct the alkalinity there would be a significant use of sodium carbonate and or bicarbonate.

I understand the resulting drop in pH that also needs attention and why I’m thinking soda ash the better base than baking soda as that will raise faster. Although I guess the actual drop in pH would decide which solution being best but regardless I have to believe it should take a significant amount of either resulting in excess sodium vs what would be typically released on just pH correction.

 

[Miami Reef]

I’m expecting a significant imbalance of ions and perhaps the proper approach being that correction by use of the Balling Method since I’m assuming to correct the alkalinity there would be a significant use of sodium carbonate and or bicarbonate.

Not necessarily true. It takes much more dosing over a long period of time to see such imbalances.

 

[GARRIGA]

Not necessarily true. It takes much more dosing over a long period of time to see such imbalances.

I’m trying to replicate a massive WC therefore I’m not necessarily dosing over extended time. Going from zero kh to 7 regardless of 100% WC or baking soda in one dose the affect would be the same. Both correct the problem in one pass. Baking soda or soda ash will do it quicker than taking out water and replacing it plus that will have tank inhabitants such as corals exposed to air for a prolong period which brings its own problems.

Just see my approach as the lesser of two stressors.

 

[Dan_P]

I think we’re talking about two different things. I’m suggesting using a base such as soda ash to raise kh and not pH.

sodium carbonate or soda ash will raise alkalinity and also raise pH because it is very basic.

 

[GARRIGA]

sodium carbonate or soda ash will raise alkalinity and also raise pH because it is very basic.

Get that but at the dosage required to raise a system crash on alkalinity from an acid overdose then wouldn’t a rebalancing of ions be required? I’m guessing it would and what I’m trying to tackle incase another or myself faced with this issue and taking the option to correct alkalinity with base vs WC.

 

[Dan_P]

Get that but at the dosage required to raise a system crash on alkalinity from an acid overdose then wouldn’t a rebalancing of ions be required? I’m guessing it would and what I’m trying to tackle incase another or myself faced with this issue and taking the option to correct alkalinity with base vs WC.

This is where you would need to do some figuring on how much the ion balance is disturbed to decide whether to add base or do a water change. I like the water change as much as adding carbonate.

 

[GARRIGA]

This is where you would need to do some figuring on how much the ion balance is disturbed to decide whether to add base or do a water change. I like the water change as much as adding carbonate.

Running through my options. If balancing ions necessary then perhaps the better solution is using kalk. Don’t know. Just trying to obtain knowledge since this isn’t a likely issue but best be ready because anything can happen.