Help for dying corals

[gthack123]

Hello team,
First post here. Hoping to get some help with multiple corals dying. 67 gallon tank started beginning of January. I’ve got a bunch of zoas that are doing great and a GSP that’s doing well also. Everything else I’ve put in the tank seems to slowly die. Multiple LPS (two chalices, cyphastrea, blastomussa, lepto, favia) as well as SPS (anacropora, birds nest, stylocoeniella). Most of them just seem to slowly recede. I do have a frogspawn that seems to be doing well

parameters:
Salinity 1.025 with osmolator ATO
temp 78.5-80
Alk runs around 8.5-9.5
Calcium 400-420. Both on apex DOS
Mag 1250-1350
Phosphate usually around 0.05 to 0.01 PPM
I have an apex par meter and substrate is around 100-150 at peak hours and top of aqua scape is around 200-250
Running a 12 hour light cycle with about 4 hour ramp up and 3 hour ramp down
Sump includes filter socks cleaned twice a week, refugium running opposite DT light cycle. Skimmer with CO2 scrubber and pH has been fairly stable at 8.3.

corals all get dipped with Red Sea dipX

I did iodine dip a few of them which didn’t seem to make much of a difference.

flow: mp40 and mp 10 on opposite sides of tank. Reef mode during the day and lagoon at night. Mp40 running at 40% and mp 10 at 50%.

not sure if there’s anything else or if anyone can spot any glaring errors but any suggestions would be appreciated. First tank and getting very frustrated.

do have a few fish doing very well (clowns, melanarus wrasse, lawnmower blenny, two spot tang)

also have a cleaner shrimp and one peppermint shrimp (don’t think that’s the problem, issues started well before he was in there)….

sorry for the long post!

 

[Piscean_Introvert]

What are your nitrate levels?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Raise calcium and magnesium. Post your nitrate level... You might be starving them.

 

[Lemons]

Raise calcium and magnesium. Post your nitrate level... You might be starving them.

I agree kinda sounds like a slow starving death… most unhappy parameters show a fast RTN or melt the softies.
Also i know alot of reefers swear by a 12 hour schedule, but IMO 8 hours seems to be the sweet spot.
Lastly, how often do you do water changes/ how much do you change at a time??

 

[Timfish]

Your phosphates may be too low. Make sure it stays above .03 mg/l (ppm). Depending on what your corals grew under and where you're placing them in your system they may be getting too much light or too little light so if possible try to match lighting conditions. Your system is still failry new and still maturing so I'd be avoiding harder to keep corals.

It's been my experiece that when several corals die from unknown reasons it's best to wait a month or two before adding more corals. One, to monitor the system parameters to make sure there's nothing screwy goin on and are realtively stable and to hopefully let the microbail stuff that's been disrupted return to some semblance of normal.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Your phosphates may be too low. Make sure it stays above .03 mg/l (ppm). Depending on what your corals grew under and where you're placing them in your system they may be getting too much light or too little light so if possible try to match lighting conditions. Your system is still failry new and still maturing so I'd be avoiding harder to keep corals.

It's been my experiece that when several corals die from unknown reasons it's best to wait a month or two before adding more corals. One, to monitor the system parameters to make sure there's nothing screwy goin on and are realtively stable and to hopefully let the microbail stuff that's been disrupted return to some semblance of normal.

+1 on checking the lighting. PAR of 100 on the sand leaves very little room to acclimate new coral. While a lot of LPS can adjust to a range of lighting, many seem to prefer medium PAR and some do best at medium-low. And 19 hours is a pretty long photo period (unless I read that wrong and the total INCLUDING ramp up and down is 12 hrs...)

Hope things turn around soon.

 

[gthack123]

Thanks everyone! I knew I'd leave some stuff out.

Phosphates are between 0 and 5 ppm (crappy API test kit).

lighting period is 12 hours total (includes ramp up and ramp down). I was also thinking maybe substrate PAR was too high for LPS but they don't really seem to be bleaching, it appears more just like a gradual recession and loss of tissue. Then again I've been doing this for less than 6 months so who knows.

Timfish: completely agree, I'm holding off for a while to see if i can nail down my exact problem.

Water changes: I do 10% once a week.

Also, from a coral nutrition standpoint I'd say I don't have a particularly regimented approach but I am doing coral amino a few times a week and spot feeding reef roids 1-2 times a week. Based on everything I've read I wouldn't think the corals would be starving with this plus 12 hours of light but again...I've been doing this for a very short time.

Again, thank you all for your feedback, super appreciated.

 

[Timfish]

Again, thank you all for your feedback, super appreciated.

Thanks everyone! I knew I'd leave some stuff out.

Phosphates are between 0 and 5 ppm (crappy API test kit).

lighting period is 12 hours total (includes ramp up and ramp down). I was also thinking maybe substrate PAR was too high for LPS but they don't really seem to be bleaching, it appears more just like a gradual recession and loss of tissue. Then again I've been doing this for less than 6 months so who knows.

Timfish: completely agree, I'm holding off for a while to see if i can nail down my exact problem.

Water changes: I do 10% once a week.

Also, from a coral nutrition standpoint I'd say I don't have a particularly regimented approach but I am doing coral amino a few times a week and spot feeding reef roids 1-2 times a week. Based on everything I've read I wouldn't think the corals would be starving with this plus 12 hours of light but again...I've been doing this for a very short time.

Again, thank you all for your feedback, super appreciated.

I like API for Ph and Alkalinity but for phospahte I use nyos. Based on the research I've read I'd keep PO4 between .03 mg/l and .5 mg/l. I'd suggest you net work with some other hobbyests and try different test kits to see what you find comfortable to use.

As far as feeding corals I'd wait until you have more experience and have a better "eye" for when a coral might have problems. Proper feeding is very species specific and what benefits one species can be very detrimental for another. Amino acids are organic nitrogen and corals prefer them to nitrates so be careful if you try dosing nitrates as too much is worse than too much phosphate.

Here's some research on microbial stuff and nutrients you might find interesting. I keep refferencing back to them on a regualar basis so don't feel like you have to understand or incorpaprte everything right away. As ou gain experience you'll understand this research better.

quabiomic's article is a good start to understand how live rock will help establish a healthy microbiome

Establishing a Healthy Microbiome in a New Aquarium Using Live Rock

Studying the effects of live rock in a newly established aquarium shows that high-quality live rock promotes the rapid establishment of an effective biological filter and a microbial community similar to those found in mature reef tanks.

www.reef2reef.com

Here's some links by scientists studying reef ecosystems you might find informative:

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

 

[Lavey29]

Cut lights to 10 hour photo period. Your tank is to new for SPS even LPS will struggle at 6 months. Your numbers aren't bad. Stay the course. Give your tank more time for biodiversity. My tank at 6 months versus 14 months is night and day different for the better

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Cut lights to 10 hour photo period. Your tank is to new for SPS even LPS will struggle at 6 months. Your numbers aren't bad. Stay the course. Give your tank more time for biodiversity. My tank at 6 months versus 14 months is night and day different for the better

Aside from needing stability, no tank is "too new" for most coral. A new reefer may be too new to successfully keep them, but in general, with stable parameters and proper lighting and flow, most soft coral and LPS, and easy SPS will be fine regardless of tank age.

 

[Lavey29]

Aside from needing stability, no tank is "too new" for most coral. A new reefer may be too new to successfully keep them, but in general, with stable parameters and proper lighting and flow, most soft coral and LPS, and easy SPS will be fine regardless of tank age.

This is true, very experienced reefers can probably put coral in from day one with success but then they also would not be typically on here saying Emergency Coral is Dying. Common sense approach for most of us average reefers is to wait till the tank has sufficient biodiversity before adding a bunch of coral types. Most have no success with SPS at 6 months.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

This is true, very experienced reefers can probably put coral in from day one with success but then they also would not be typically on here saying Emergency Coral is Dying. Common sense approach for most of us average reefers is to wait till the tank has sufficient biodiversity before adding a bunch of coral types. Most have no success with SPS at 6 months.

I still disagree with your original statement of, "Your tank is to [sic] new for SPS even LPS will struggle at 6 months."

 

[gthack123]

Aside from needing stability, no tank is "too new" for most coral. A new reefer may be too new to successfully keep them, but in general, with stable parameters and proper lighting and flow, most soft coral and LPS, and easy SPS will be fine regardless of tank age.

That was my thought process as well. If the building blocks for coral growth are appropriate I don’t see why tank age would necessarily be a limiting factor. I was under the assumption that the theory that corals don’t do well in a new tank was predicated on most new tanks/ new reefers not having a great handle on maintaining stability. I’m sure having an established and healthy microbiome likely contributes as well though.

 

[gthack123]

That was my thought process as well. If the building blocks for coral growth are appropriate I don’t see why tank age would necessarily be a limiting factor. I was under the assumption that the theory that corals don’t do well in a new tank was predicated on most new tanks/ new reefers not having a great handle on maintaining stability. I’m sure having an established and healthy microbiome likely contributes as well though. This comment is not to imply that I’m any better than any other inexperienced reefer…just illustrating that I thought my parameters were adequate and stable enough to not necessarily explain why I’m not having much success.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

That was my thought process as well. If the building blocks for coral growth are appropriate I don’t see why tank age would necessarily be a limiting factor. I was under the assumption that the theory that corals don’t do well in a new tank was predicated on most new tanks/ new reefers not having a great handle on maintaining stability. I’m sure having an established and healthy microbiome likely contributes as well though.

But for many, especially those who start with dry rock, the primary means of introducing the components of a robust microbiome is adding coral (and any rock it's attached to...)

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Easy way to increase nutrients (nitrate and phosphate) is to increase feeding the fish

 

[Lavey29]

I still disagree with your original statement of, "Your tank is to [sic] new for SPS even LPS will struggle at 6 months."

Proof is in the unlimited help my coral s are dying posts here. Now those that start with actual live ocean rock have an advantage and jump start their biodiversity. BRS did a video test in this which I followed no lights or corals the first 4 months to allow the tank to develop biodiversity.

 

[gthack123]

Proof is in the unlimited help my coral s are dying posts here. Now those that start with actual live ocean rock have an advantage and jump start their biodiversity. BRS did a video test in this which I followed no lights or corals the first 4 months to allow the tank to develop biodiversity.

I’m hoping that my primary issue is tank age…I think I also likely should scale back on the lighting…either way, thank you guys for the input

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Proof is in the unlimited help my coral s are dying posts here. Now those that start with actual live ocean rock have an advantage and jump start their biodiversity. BRS did a video test in this which I followed no lights or corals the first 4 months to allow the tank to develop biodiversity.

You're bringing in elements that aren't relevant to the OP's tank/situation. I think that, possible pests notwithstanding, most agree that starting a tank with live rock will help a tank mature in less time. But there are plenty of people who start tanks with dry rock and sand and have no problem keeping coral in new tanks.
As for "the unlimited help my coral s are dying posts here," just like everywhere else, reports of negative experiences are likely to be disproportionate to positive ones... Especially in the sense of those people coming to the forum primarily when they need help... (Obviously, there are "unlimited" threads in other areas of the forum that are positive)

 

[CoralB]

Thanks everyone! I knew I'd leave some stuff out.

Phosphates are between 0 and 5 ppm (crappy API test kit).

lighting period is 12 hours total (includes ramp up and ramp down). I was also thinking maybe substrate PAR was too high for LPS but they don't really seem to be bleaching, it appears more just like a gradual recession and loss of tissue. Then again I've been doing this for less than 6 months so who knows.

Timfish: completely agree, I'm holding off for a while to see if i can nail down my exact problem.

Water changes: I do 10% once a week.

Also, from a coral nutrition standpoint I'd say I don't have a particularly regimented approach but I am doing coral amino a few times a week and spot feeding reef roids 1-2 times a week. Based on everything I've read I wouldn't think the corals would be starving with this plus 12 hours of light but again...I've been doing this for a very short time.

Again, thank you all for your feedback, super appreciated.

First you might want to invest in better testing equipment or at least go to a lfs with good testing equipment . Still waiting for a nitrate value . The Zero phosphate swing is concerning and also your temperature swing which can bleach corals . I personally won’t let my temp go over 78 , 80 to me is high and if it’s sudden could force the coral to expel its zooxanthellae which is bad for the coral . I would lower the temp , stabilize your parameters in correct margins and add targeted nutrients like fuel , Red Sea ab + etc . Wouldn’t hurt , but only after everything is stabilized and you’ve found and taken care of the problem that caused this downward decline to add live zooxanthellae in a broad spread and or target application . Also check your RO water , make sure your getting tds of zero before you make saltwater . If not add di to the system . I recently found high cloramines in my water which I had to add clorimine removing carbon blocks . So check your water supply and water out of your RO . Hope this and what others have stated helps !