Help id algae

[KimG]

Dear all
I would like to ask you for help identifying this algae.
A bit of a background. We set up the aquarium last august. In December the silicon failed and we had to restart it (all rock, media from the sump, fish and coral where transferred over). Originally everything was doing great. We bought some more corals in January and all good. Good polip extension and growth. In late February we started experiencing an stn event, especially in our seriatopora and a acro colony. Soon after the algae started spreeding. The stn problem seemed to a lack o nutrient's. While we run a skimmerless set up, the ATS was keeping nitrate below 1 and phosphate at 0.
For the last two weeks we have been feeding like maniacs. Frozen 3 to 4 times a day, pellets two more times on an autofeeder, dosing acropower everyday and feeding reefroids almost everyday. We also refuced the ATS light period. This seems to have stop the stn and its slowly increasing the nutrinents (0 phosphate and around 2 nitrate), however the algae keeps spreading and I believe its affecting the corals. Its growing on the plaiting montis and on the remaining sps. Most lps apart from a chalice are doing great, but they are also being fed daily.
Originally I thought it could dinos, since it creates mats of algae full of air bubbles at the end of the day. However under the microscope it doesn't really look like it. Its clearly a single cell algae that creats mats, but not sure what. CUC will not touch it.
Levels
Alk 8.3
Calcium 390
Mag 1350
Nitrate 1
Phosphate 0
RO water with 0 tds

I will try to upload a video and get more images tomorrow.
Thank you all for the help.
Cheers

 

[KimG]

Video if the be algae under the Microscope



They grow on the rocks, sand, back glass

 

[ScottB]

I see one maybe two dino cells but they are clearly being outcompeted by whatever the green meanies are.

IIRC, chrysophytes are yellow/gold and round so I doubt that is what you have there.

Good photo/video work BTW. Someone should come along with a better ID. Just bump the post every now and then.

Welcome to R2R!

 

[KimG]

Hi Scott
Thanks.
The sample was collected early in the morning.
I will see if I can collect another sample at the end of the day when things are worse and see if there's a difference.
Hopefully some has an idea of what it is

 

[ScottB]

Hi Scott
Thanks.
The sample was collected early in the morning.
I will see if I can collect another sample at the end of the day when things are worse and see if there's a difference.
Hopefully some has an idea of what it is

Roger that. See if you can also get a pic of it in full bloom in the tank, under white light.

Some further questions/comments:
- Is the ATS still growing stuff? Or does it seem "off" its normal game?
- I am never comfortable with 0 phosphate, but if the scrubber is pulling and the greenie meanies are consuming it kinda makes it hard to recommend even more nutrient introduction.
- Given my experience with dinos, I would give strong consideration to stopping acropower. It should be relabeled as DinoPower. And given your low nutrient level you are at some risk here.
- Keep an eye on your ALK and any dosing or CaRx settings. Is consumption dropping?

 

[KimG]

Roger that. See if you can also get a pic of it in full bloom in the tank, under white light.

Some further questions/comments:
- Is the ATS still growing stuff? Or does it seem "off" its normal game?
- I am never comfortable with 0 phosphate, but if the scrubber is pulling and the greenie meanies are consuming it kinda makes it hard to recommend even more nutrient introduction.
- Given my experience with dinos, I would give strong consideration to stopping acropower. It should be relabeled as DinoPower. And given your low nutrient level you are at some risk here.
- Keep an eye on your ALK and any dosing or CaRx settings. Is consumption dropping?

Yes. The ATS is growing algae nicely. No changes there.
That was kind of my thinking. No skimmer and only the ATS, nutrient limitation should not be a problem. Apparently I was wrong.
Shouldn't the acropower help the corals under low nutrient conditions? I notice a big jump in alk consumption when I started to add last year. Do they fuel Dino's?
Alk consumption dropped when the stn started. But we have been keeping it stable. Just a little less dosing
Thanks for the help

 

[ScottB]

Yes. The ATS is growing algae nicely. No changes there.
That was kind of my thinking. No skimmer and only the ATS, nutrient limitation should not be a problem. Apparently I was wrong.
Shouldn't the acropower help the corals under low nutrient conditions? I notice a big jump in alk consumption when I started to add last year. Do they fuel Dino's?
Alk consumption dropped when the stn started. But we have been keeping it stable. Just a little less dosing
Thanks for the help

OK, I think it is good that your ATS is still pulling. It means the unidentified gunk is not stripping nutrient and there are not significant dinos present. When they really bloom you will see 0/0 nutrient and very unhappy corals.

I would be cutting more hours from the ATS to let the tank dirty up just a bit. At least .05 on PO4 and 5-10 NO3.

Until you can see the STN is over and/or ALK consumption returns, I would skip aminos. The SPS are at least temporarily hunkering down and leaving the aminos for somebody else to consume.

Disclosure: I am not a big hater, but I do hate dinoflagellates.

 

[KimG]

A bit more info and pictures.
In the morning the tank as the green algae but no bubbles. As the day progresses, the bubbles appear, as you can see on the pictures.
The sand is also cover but does not get much bubbles at any point.

Currently is not so bad as we have been shiponing every day through a 1 micro filter.

Any ideas?

Morning shoots

Afternoon shoots

 

[ScottB]

Thanks for all the good pics; that is really very helpful. So you are able to easily remove it, and then it comes back? Correct? Thin green mats?

My best guess right now is green cyanobacteria. The red slime cyano has a much longer cell structure, so I am unsure about this. I am gonna pull the cord to get some eyes on it...
#reefsqaud

In any case, you do need to raise nutrients to save your corals. As they lose tissue, that gunk will cling. Or dinos will cling and they have toxins that will accelerate the problem. Without nutrients they (dinos) kill stuff to consume the nutrient released.

 

[KimG]

Thanks for all the good pics; that is really very helpful. So you are able to easily remove it, and then it comes back? Correct? Thin green mats?

My best guess right now is green cyanobacteria. The red slime cyano has a much longer cell structure, so I am unsure about this. I am gonna pull the cord to get some eyes on it...
#reefsqaud

In any case, you do need to raise nutrients to save your corals. As they lose tissue, that gunk will cling. Or dinos will cling and they have toxins that will accelerate the problem. Without nutrients they (dinos) kill stuff to consume the nutrient released.

Thank you for the help Scott.
I can remove most, but not all.

Yep, working on that. Considering reducing or killing the lights in the dispaly for a day or two. If the algae keeps growing at this rhythm it will always consume most of the nutrient's.
Trying to avoid dosing, but if it comes to that, i will get some nitrate as and phosphate

 

[ScottB]

Thank you for the help Scott.
I can remove most, but not all.

Yep, working on that. Considering reducing or killing the lights in the dispaly for a day or two. If the algae keeps growing at this rhythm it will always consume most of the nutrient's.
Trying to avoid dosing, but if it comes to that, i will get some nitrate as and phosphate

How many hours are you running ATS now?

Amazon is really slow to ship these days, but these are my goto DIY ingredients:



Hang in there. Lets see what reefsquad folks come up with.

 

[KimG]

Was at 16 normally, cut it down to 12. Planning on giving it on day or two more and check again. If nutrient's are still not going up i will probably cut it to 6.
The stn seems to have mostly stoped. At lest almost all the frags survived and the areas where we cut are healing nicely.
But seeing the algae creep up on them is less fun.

 

[KimG]

Update and more photos

I took photos from different places. It seems the vast majority is this single cell green algae that creates the mats. (close up photo below)
On top of that I can fin what looks like Dinos and some long thin brown cells.

#ScottB and #reefsqaud or any others, any ideas?

Thanks for the links Scott. I went by the lab yesterday to take the photos and we had both Sodium phosphate and Sodium Nitrate. I have prepared solutions for both, but I would like to see if I could identify the problem. I'm afraid to create more problems if I start dosing.

As of this morning, with 8 fish in an IM SR80 without a skimmer and with 1.5% daily water change, feeding frozen 3 times a day and pellets 2 times more. Also feeding reefroids everyday and feeding the LPS with brine shrimp and misys, my nitrate is at 2.5 and still have no phosphate. Nitrate seems to be increasing very slightly.
I have also been running a 1 micro cartridge filter on the thank since Friday, but that does not seem to be helping much.
Interestingly, I don'g get almost any air bubbles on the sand, just, rocks, around the corals and back glass. Different algae getting mixed?


Currently I'm toying with the idea of a black out for 3 days.
The corals are still getting overrun and I can see more and more algae on the corals.
Hopefully the black out will knock it down a bit and give the corals some breeding space. Also, with a bit of luck, the algae die off will lead to an increase in nutrients. Thoughts?


Close up of the cells

Overall look of the mats (sand and rock)

Different cells present mainly in the corals.

Dinos? find them mainly in the water column and mixed amongst the other cells.

 

[35ppt]

Second to last photo are diatoms, last one looks like Osteropsis dinoflagellate. I don't know these green jerks though. @taricha You know these guys?

 

[KimG]

Second to last photo are diatoms, last one looks like Osteropsis dinoflagellate. I don't know these green jerks though. @taricha You know these guys?

Thanks for the help.
Any additional info is well appreciated.

 

[ScottB]

I can confirm the last image is ostreopsis. But the green things confuse me too. In the second image, they almost look like procentrum with pyrenoid circle in the middle, but the color throws me off.

If you have access to a UV it certainly won't hurt. Combined with a blackout you would likely see significant improvement. Generally 1 watt per 3 gallons. Running in/out of display (not in the sump).

Mr Nuisance @taricha should be along shortly to help mysterious green things.

 

[taricha]

Last time I saw something that looked those green guys, it was this:


these were euglena. vast majority were motionless, green, round.
but then some would move and elongate (check out 3:50 mark in video)

 

[KimG]

Last time I saw something that looked those green guys, it was this:


these were euglena. vast majority were motionless, green, round.
but then some would move and elongate (check out 3:50 mark in video)

Hi Taricha.

Thanks for the help.
The videos does look similar. Most are motionlessness and round and when they move they can elongate.
Having said that, they really are mostly round.
Any idea if they are a problem? can't seem to find much info on them.
They are just forming this green algae everywhere.

 

[KimG]

So, the tank as gone dark.

I siphoned as much as I could yesterday and then covered the tank.
As far as I could see, even by blowing if of the corals and siphoning everyday, the SPS were getting more and more covered, so better to give it a shot.

Still not sure if the green algae is the problem, or if the dinos are causing the problem and the green algae is just taking over. Or if non of them is the problem and something else is, and they are just symptoms.

I will update this thread on Friday or Saturday and then I will follow up on it and update as needed.
I will also measure parameters daily to ensure that there are no drastic changes and spikes.
Currently not running UVs, but I'm running a 1 um cartridge filter that will hopefully catch most of the algae in the water column.

Lets see what comes out of this.
Thank you all for the help so far

 

[taricha]

euglena are not typically problems, by which I mean almost no one has tank issues and then finds euglena as the cause.
That said, I don't know their behavior in much detail. I do know that they are photosynthetic, but they are also predators and typically fade if all they have is light. Probably means they are very dependent on their prey (likely bacteria)