Help identifying multiple disease in different fish in my DT

[schafon]

I’m running at 77-78, not sure how precise my heater controller is.
As of now everything in the aquarium is doing great and growing. I’ve attached pictures of all of my corals.
If I had brook I would probably see more fish dying by now, is it correct?

 

[schafon]

I’ve increased the temp by one degree, will raise it every other day

 

[schafon]

I would hold it at a full dose for 14 days. For coppersafe, I use 30 days, but most folks use 14 for Cupramine. I would then hold the fish for another 14 days of no copper to ensure there is no relapse.
Jay

Hi @Jay Hemdal,
I have few of questions I hope you can help me with.

I came back from the road trip on Aug 6 and from that day the level never went under 0.4 (probably even 0.45 but just in case lets say 0.4), am I ok to stop Cupramine?

I was wondering, since the copper only kills the free swimming life cycle of ick, isn't it an option (quite possible) that there are eggs in the QT tank that will turn into free swimmers when I remove the copper from the water and reinfect the fish?

And final question, I've purchased another 30G tank around 1-2 weeks ago and added live rocks. I've cranked the heat to 86 for couple of days and tried to introduce some FW black mullies.
One of the mullies showed few white spots so I removed all mullies to copper (in a bucket) and this time I've set the tank temp to 94-96 (max heat from my heater) for 48 hours.
Is it safe to say that the ick is now dead? or should I get new mullies to test it again?


Thanks!!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi @Jay Hemdal,
I have few of questions I hope you can help me with.

I came back from the road trip on Aug 6 and from that day the level never went under 0.4 (probably even 0.45 but just in case lets say 0.4), am I ok to stop Cupramine?

I was wondering, since the copper only kills the free swimming life cycle of ick, isn't it an option (quite possible) that there are eggs in the QT tank that will turn into free swimmers when I remove the copper from the water and reinfect the fish?

And final question, I've purchased another 30G tank around 1-2 weeks ago and added live rocks. I've cranked the heat to 86 for couple of days and tried to introduce some FW black mullies.
One of the mullies showed few white spots so I removed all mullies to copper (in a bucket) and this time I've set the tank temp to 94-96 (max heat from my heater) for 48 hours.
Is it safe to say that the ick is now dead? or should I get new mullies to test it again?


Thanks!!

It depends on how much you can rely on your copper test. Cupramine really needs to be kept at full dose, 0.50 ppm for the entire treatment time. 0.45 *might* be o.k., but what if your copper test is off by some amount and the true dose is only 0.30?

Yes - that's why I use coppersafe at 30 days - this greatly reduces the chance of some tomonts still being in the tank, ready to release theronts. I also hold the fish in copper free water for an additional two weeks before moving them out of the QT - just to be sure.

I can't tell you what the upper lethal temperature limit is for ich tomonts. Up to around 86 degrees F., they do really well, in fact they seem to prefer it.

Jay

 

[schafon]

Thanks for the quick response!
I use Hanna copper HR and the results are pretty consistent so I feel safe about that.
I had the ceramic breeding thing in the QT that I think made it hard to preserve the dose at exactly 0.5 + water change + adding RO water due to evaporation doesn't help either.

I actually just purchased copper power for the next time I need to QT fish since I see that I can use it with other medications ;Facepalm
So your advice is coppersafe for next time I guess - I'll order it!

I read somewhere that cracking the heat to 96f will kill ick (and everything else including bacteria) in a tank in 48 hours.
I can't find this article anymore so I feel kind of stupid for doing this.

After removing the copper, should I use praziPro? or there is no need?
And final question, what is the best way to remove Cupramine from the water?

Thanks again Jay!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for the quick response!
I use Hanna copper HR and the results are pretty consistent so I feel safe about that.
I had the ceramic breeding thing in the QT that I think made it hard to preserve the dose at exactly 0.5 + water change + adding RO water due to evaporation doesn't help either.

I actually just purchased copper power for the next time I need to QT fish since I see that I can use it with other medications ;Facepalm
So your advice is coppersafe for next time I guess - I'll order it!

I read somewhere that cracking the heat to 96f will kill ick (and everything else including bacteria) in a tank in 48 hours.
I can't find this article anymore so I feel kind of stupid for doing this.

After removing the copper, should I use praziPro? or there is no need?
And final question, what is the best way to remove Cupramine from the water?

Thanks again Jay!

The absolute best way to remove cupramine is through water changes. Carbon isn't a good choice, but cuprisorb will also work.

Generally, prazipro is used to control possible flukes since copper has no real affect on those.

Jay

 

[schafon]

I'm kind of nervous now about removing the copper from the water, I'm afraid that there is more ick in tomonts stage.

What do you think about this plan:

• removing copper from water
• Starting preventative PraziPro treatment
• Cleaning Prazy from water
• dosing copper again
• after one week in copper move to DT (if it's ready by then)

Thoughts?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm kind of nervous now about removing the copper from the water, I'm afraid that there is more ick in tomonts stage.

What do you think about this plan:

• removing copper from water
• Starting preventative PraziPro treatment
• Cleaning Prazy from water
• dosing copper again
• after one week in copper move to DT (if it's ready by then)

Thoughts?

That looks good. You don't really have to remove Prazipro, it breaks down in a few days. Be sure to aerate the tank really well during prazi, and still run your skimmer, just don't collect any skimmate.

Adding a full dose of copper at the end is a REALLY good idea. I do that myself, but I usually don't tell others to because folks are always looking for a faster/easier way to do things (grin). Moving fish out of a tank that has been at a full dose of copper for 72 hours helps ensure that there are no active theronts at the time of the move. There can still be tomonts, but they will be down on the substrate and won't get moved along. This is sort of a "better" way to do TTM.

Jay

 

[schafon]

I didn't came up with the idea to do the copper at the end myself, it's from your QT protocol lol
I actually don't have a skimmer on my QT tank (where I plan on doing the PraziPro), is that a problem?

I do have another concern, I'm afraid that the copper is hiding other diseases, for example when I just moved the fish to QT we suspected Brooklynella, is there a chance that after removing copper we will see diseases that was muted because of the copper?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I didn't came up with the idea to do the copper at the end myself, it's from your QT protocol lol
I actually don't have a skimmer on my QT tank (where I plan on doing the PraziPro), is that a problem?

I do have another concern, I'm afraid that the copper is hiding other diseases, for example when I just moved the fish to QT we suspected Brooklynella, is there a chance that after removing copper we will see diseases that was muted because of the copper?

The most common issue are flukes that copper doesn't touch. Brooklynella and Uronema are also not controlled by coper, but they are pretty specific to certain species of newly acquired fish, and rarely show up later on. No method is 100%, but this is about 80% I'd say.....

Jay

 

[schafon]

Ok, thank you very much Jay!
I will update on the results.

 

[drstardust]

No method is 100%, but this is about 80% I'd say.....

Could you please elaborate on this? Are you saying your quarantine protocol is only 80% successful? What do you do when it isn't successful, then?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Could you please elaborate on this? Are you saying your quarantine protocol is only 80% successful? What do you do when it isn't successful, then?

My method doesn’t eliminate Uronema Brooklynella bacterial issues, viral disease, or myxosporidians…. of these, only Brooklynella can be treated for prophylactically. I don’t routinely do this as I only see this issue in wild caught clownfish. The remaining issues are going to show up or not, nothing can be done for them except manage environmental issues. The 80% is just a guess, based on my systems.
Jay

 

[drstardust]

My method doesn’t eliminate Uronema Brooklynella bacterial issues, viral disease, or myxosporidians…. of these, only Brooklynella can be treated for prophylactically. I don’t routinely do this as I only see this issue in wild caught clownfish. The remaining issues are going to show up or not, nothing can be done for them except manage environmental issues. The 80% is just a guess, based on my systems.
Jay

Gotcha, so I guess I misunderstood. It's not that it's only 80% successful in treating the diseases you do target with copper/prazi.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Gotcha, so I guess I misunderstood. It's not that it's only 80% successful in treating the diseases you do target with copper/prazi.

Yes, for me, this method has been 100% successful in dealing with the target parasites in the 6 or so years I’ve employed it.
Jay