Help Me Cycle!

[Baconbeast]

I started cycling my 90g tank (75g display and 15g in a 20g sump) 15 days ago. I have 2 small clowns (1-1.5inch) 60 pounds of live sand, and I bought a box of cycled bio balls from my LFS to boost my start.

The problem is I can’t get any numbers to rise! I have been at 7.8-8 ph, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates. The only movement I had was maybe a .25 jump in ammonia at 10 days, but that was after the vial sat for much more than the suggested 5 minutes…

I have started over feeding because the LFS suggested that the bacteria is probably keeping up with the small clowns. That hasn’t moved the needle either…

Do I need to be more patient, or do I need some help from a cycle boost product?

 

[ajremington68]

I started cycling my 90g tank (75g display and 15g in a 20g sump) 15 days ago. I have 2 small clowns (1-1.5inch) 60 pounds of live sand, and I bought a box of cycled bio balls from my LFS to boost my start.

The problem is I can’t get any numbers to rise! I have been at 7.8-8 ph, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates. The only movement I had was maybe a .25 jump in ammonia at 10 days, but that was after the vial sat for much more than the suggested 5 minutes…

I have started over feeding because the LFS suggested that the bacteria is probably keeping up with the small clowns. That hasn’t moved the needle either…

Do I need to be more patient, or do I need some help from a cycle boost product?

You have 2 clowns in an uncycled tank?

 

[Reefin' Steve]

I’m also new but I’ll interact to boost your post. Someone will ask what you’re testing with, what salt, and more details in general about your system.

In my (still cycling) experience, this seems impossible and likely a testing problem… but take that for what it’s worth

 

[Bigfishy1]

Sounds like your tank has cycled. I would add another fish or two and watch the numbers.

 

[Reefin' Steve]

I started cycling my 90g tank (75g display and 15g in a 20g sump) 15 days ago. I have 2 small clowns (1-1.5inch) 60 pounds of live sand, and I bought a box of cycled bio balls from my LFS to boost my start.

The problem is I can’t get any numbers to rise! I have been at 7.8-8 ph, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates. The only movement I had was maybe a .25 jump in ammonia at 10 days, but that was after the vial sat for much more than the suggested 5 minutes…

I have started over feeding because the LFS suggested that the bacteria is probably keeping up with the small clowns. That hasn’t moved the needle either…

Do I need to be more patient, or do I need some help from a cycle boost product?

You have 2 clowns in an uncycled tank?

And yes this

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I agree that if you have clowns in it for a week or more and a working ammonia kit shows none, you are cycled.

 

[Reefin' Steve]

I agree that if you have clowns in it for a week or more and a working ammonia kit shows none, you are cycled.

asking for my own understanding, how would there be zero nitrate?

 

[Baconbeast]

I started cycling my 90g tank (75g display and 15g in a 20g sump) 15 days ago. I have 2 small clowns (1-1.5inch) 60 pounds of live sand, and I bought a box of cycled bio balls from my LFS to boost my start.

The problem is I can’t get any numbers to rise! I have been at 7.8-8 ph, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates. The only movement I had was maybe a .25 jump in ammonia at 10 days, but that was after the vial sat for much more than the suggested 5 minutes…

I have started over feeding because the LFS suggested that the bacteria is probably keeping up with the small clowns. That hasn’t moved the needle either…

Do I need to be more patient, or do I need some help from a cycle boost product?

You have 2 clowns in an uncycled tank?

Yes, I was intending to do a fish-less cycle but my LFS said it was much better to do a fish in cycle. They brought up some good points about not wanting to artificially add ammonia because many people have a hard time getting it back out I guess.

They seem very happy and healthy.

 

[Baconbeast]

I agree that if you have clowns in it for a week or more and a working ammonia kit shows none, you are cycled.

I’m using the Saltwater Master Test Kit.

So I hope that’s a good one!

The family will be very excited to hear we can add another fish! Thank you for your advice!

 

[Baconbeast]

I agree that if you have clowns in it for a week or more and a working ammonia kit shows none, you are cycled.

asking for my own understanding, how would there be zero nitrate?

It might be at 1-4… very hard to tell with the test kit colors. It’s a bright yellow at 0 and a light orange at 5. My eye may be tricking me because I want it to show something other than 0… haha

I have wanted to say it was above 0 but never got dark enough to make it a 5.

 

[Reefin' Steve]

It might be at 1-4… very hard to tell with the test kit colors. It’s a bright yellow at 0 and a light orange at 5. My eye may be tricking me because I want it to show something other than 0… haha

I have wanted to say it was above 0 but never got dark enough to make it a 5.

That makes a whole lot more sense to me. From all i know in a 15 day old tank, the only way to remove nitrates is by water changes. I'm fishless cycling though, almost the exact same amount of days and my nitrates are fairly high (11.5 yesterday on hanna, ammonia essentially hitting zero now from 2ppm dose). Basically id assume your ammonia source is just alot less if youre reading something on nitrate, and they're right. But with my tank where it is now, nitrite through the roof, seems like you had a very painless cycle. Been a bit rough over here but once nitrites drop i'm done too. My ph is running around the same by the way, red sea blue bucket.

My question for @Randy Holmes-Farley would be, assuming im making correct sense of this, which method equates to a more robust cycle?

*edited for nitrite/nitrate typo

 

[Dan_P]

Yes, I was intending to do a fish-less cycle but my LFS said it was much better to do a fish in cycle. They brought up some good points about not wanting to artificially add ammonia because many people have a hard time getting it back out I guess.

They seem very happy and healthy.

You might not have gotten the story straight from the LFS but the method is certainly a good way to spend more money up front. The live sand (who knows if it actually was) and cycled bio balls (if they were wet, good idea but if they were dry possible rip off) were suppose to enable a quick start for the aquarium by adding bacteria to consume ammonia. Because you have two little fish in 100 gallons of water, test kits (API right?) may not be able to detect the small amount of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate produced in 15 days. I would say that the odds are better than 50:50 that the aquarium is “cycled” but you have little evidence that the aquarium is set up to consume ammonia at any appreciable rate. I would go slow with adding any more fish.

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

I’ve cycled a new tank instantly but putting bio balls and rock in the sump of my old tank as well as using live sand. I believe you’re good to go. Just make sure you maintain nitrate around 5-10 and phos around .08-.2 get yourself some Jan ate nitrate and ulr phos checkers.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

asking for my own understanding, how would there be zero nitrate?

It may be consumed by algae or bacteria.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Are you using an API test? It often shows .25 ammonia, you can disregard it. It doesn't matter now, but I agree the LFS steered you wrong to cycle with fish.

 

[Reefin' Steve]

asking for my own understanding, how would there be zero nitrate?

It may be consumed by algae or bacteria.

Well, I’m not sure about him but at ~17 days, mine has no algae whatsoever and nitrates are on the rise. I’m hesitant to think there is a refugium or algae scrubber running essentially from the start? That’s why I wanted more details.

Seems odd. If it were mine, I wouldn’t remotely consider it cycled if nitrate doesn’t hit a clear 5-10 like you said. Corals like to have some no3, so if I’d have to dose Neo nitro or something to supplement something that should naturally occurring, would it not be an “insufficient” cycle? Also all I’ve read says there should be something detectable somewhere in the process at any given time, all 3 are never truly zero.

This just goes against everything I’ve researched (for years)… and I want to understand from someone who clearly knows more than me.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Well, I’m not sure about him but at ~17 days, mine has no algae whatsoever and nitrates are on the rise. I’m hesitant to think there is a refugium or algae scrubber running essentially from the start? That’s why I wanted more details.

Seems odd. If it were mine, I wouldn’t remotely consider it cycled if nitrate doesn’t hit a clear 5-10 like you said. Corals like to have some no3, so if I’d have to dose Neo nitro or something to supplement something that should naturally occurring, would it not be an “insufficient” cycle? Also all I’ve read says there should be something detectable somewhere in the process at any given time, all 3 are never truly zero.

This just goes against everything I’ve researched (for years)… and I want to understand from someone who clearly knows more than me.

Assuming the ammonia kit works, and since ammonia rising is the only thing we care about in terms of “cycling”, then he is good to go with the fish he has. As Rishma notes, adding fish slowly is a good idea most scenarios. He has done several things that would cycle the tank, and anyone one of them can be adequate, including having fish that are not apparently suffering after a considerable time in the tank.

I agree that having undetectable nitrate (and phosphate) is not desirable for corals, and I’d try to raise them before adding any and to avoid dino risks.

 

[Reefin' Steve]

Well, I’m not sure about him but at ~17 days, mine has no algae whatsoever and nitrates are on the rise. I’m hesitant to think there is a refugium or algae scrubber running essentially from the start? That’s why I wanted more details.

Seems odd. If it were mine, I wouldn’t remotely consider it cycled if nitrate doesn’t hit a clear 5-10 like you said. Corals like to have some no3, so if I’d have to dose Neo nitro or something to supplement something that should naturally occurring, would it not be an “insufficient” cycle? Also all I’ve read says there should be something detectable somewhere in the process at any given time, all 3 are never truly zero.

This just goes against everything I’ve researched (for years)… and I want to understand from someone who clearly knows more than me.

Assuming the ammonia kit works, and since ammonia rising is the only thing we care about in terms of “cycling”, then he is good to go with the fish he has. As Rishma notes, adding fish slowly is a good idea most scenarios. He has done several things that would cycle the tank, and anyone one of them can be adequate, including having fish that are not apparently suffering after a considerable time in the tank.

I agree that having undetectable nitrate (and phosphate) is not desirable for corals, and I’d try to raise them before adding any and to avoid dino risks.

I guess that just confuses me on fish in vs fishless… with my ammonia essentially hitting zero from a high dose, why is his cycled but mine is considered not on the premise it hasn’t processed all the nitrite, but with my readings, it’s processed more than his?

It sounds like 2 clowns would never require the tank to process the ammonia mine did, (75 display, about 90 running), so how is the result considered the same?

In other terms, this makes it sound like the term “cycled” is quite variable in my mind. Not trying to hijack - hope this is useful to someone else on understanding cycle methods too.

 

[Baconbeast]

Yes, I was intending to do a fish-less cycle but my LFS said it was much better to do a fish in cycle. They brought up some good points about not wanting to artificially add ammonia because many people have a hard time getting it back out I guess.

They seem very happy and healthy.

You might not have gotten the story straight from the LFS but the method is certainly a good way to spend more money up front. The live sand (who knows if it actually was) and cycled bio balls (if they were wet, good idea but if they were dry possible rip off) were suppose to enable a quick start for the aquarium by adding bacteria to consume ammonia. Because you have two little fish in 100 gallons of water, test kits (API right?) may not be able to detect the small amount of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate produced in 15 days. I would say that the odds are better than 50:50 that the aquarium is “cycled” but you have little evidence that the aquarium is set up to consume ammonia at any appreciable rate. I would go slow with adding any more fish.

I did get the bio balls wet, I watched them pull it out of their sump.

I am using an API test kit.

Seems like most people agree my tank is cycled. I will probably add one more hardy fish and keep checking my levels every 2 days just in case we haven’t actually started the cycle.

I am not planning to add more than 1 or 2 fish max at any time.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I do not consider nitrite worthy of monitoring and if ammonia declined in a tank, it is good to go regardless of nitrite, which is not toxic in seawater at any level you can attain in normal situations.