Help! Things going downhill fast!

[dustinc]

Ok, so today I came home to several dying corals (acros) and most if not all snails dead. My crabs still seem to be ok at this point and can’t find my shrimp (not abnormal).

I think it could be a few different things, but leaning towards #1. These are the changes over the last week that could be contributing.

1) Yesterday morning added a plant basket to my plumbed in frag tank to hold a tiny mandarin until it grew. Came from Lowe’s and was in lawn and garden and quite dirty. Rinsed really well and wiped with a towel. Everything seemed solid yesterday before this. This is where I’m leaning and think it could have a spray or something on it. All fish seem to be unaffected.

2) Added several fish to the tank on Thursday

3) Alk rose from about 8.3 to 9.1 over about a week span. Higher than I would like and I do have low nutrients.

Those are the items that could have an effect. I added carbon in a reactor to the sump tonight to see if I can pull what’s in there. Any other ideas/thoughts? It’s a 300 gallon in wall setup.

 

[painter1982]

I’d think #1 too. Maybe bug spray or some kind of poison. Clay pot? Probably take pot out asap if you haven’t already. Do a larger size water change. Good luck to you!

 

[dustinc]

I’d think #1 too. Maybe bug spray or some kind of poison. Clay pot? Probably take pot out asap if you haven’t already. Do a larger size water change. Good luck to you!

No, just a black plastic mesh type planter. I see them used in LFS often to hold nems, etc. I did remove it not long ago and hope that carbon helps.

 

[fish_collector]

From my experience acros don't die from something that happened yesterday but rather something that happened in the weeks previous, unless of course it is some giant change in important parameters like alk or salinity. 8.3 to 9.1 is nothing really and wouldn't in itself kill corals. 300g is a lot of water to contaminate from just residue, especially if you rinsed and cleaned a plastic basket before you used it. Dead snails is another part of the puzzle and I suppose it could have been something on a dirty basket, but again 300g of water is a lot of volume to poison from just residue alone. Is it possible you have dinoflagellates?

There's too many blanks in the info to even offer suggestions on what caused your corals to die.

And fwiw, mandarins need to forage for live food to thrive, life in a basket is going to starve the little guy.

 

[dustinc]

From my experience acros don't die from something that happened yesterday but rather something that happened in the weeks previous, unless of course it is some giant change in important parameters like alk or salinity. 8.3 to 9.1 is nothing really and wouldn't in itself kill corals. 300g is a lot of water to contaminate from just residue, especially if you rinsed and cleaned a plastic basket before you used it. Dead snails is another part of the puzzle and I suppose it could have been something on a dirty basket, but again 300g of water is a lot of volume to poison from just residue alone. Is it possible you have dinoflagellates?

There's too many blanks in the info to even offer suggestions on what caused your corals to die.

And fwiw, mandarins need to forage for live food to thrive, life in a basket is going to starve the little guy.

I don’t believe I have Dino’s. I have had a weird “algae” that’s been in the tank for a while that I haven’t figured out yet. But in my past experience with Dino’s, those bubbles were noticeable and this particular thing I’ve been dealing with seemed to be more turf like that I could scrub off somewhat readily. It is only in areas light touches. Under a blue only flashlight at night, it looks very red with orange glasses. Also, they don’t go away or change at night. Seems to be more consistent with a typical algae. Could that be Dinos?

On the mandarin front, definitely understand that, however he is captive bred eating crushed pellets. Just put him there until I could figure out a way to get him some rock but also protect him (he’s about 1/2”).

 

[fish_collector]

1/2"? Oh boy! definitely post some photos of him!

I've got nothing Dustin, there's too many variables at play here. Removing your basket and adding some carbon is a good start.

How old is the tank? How long have the acros been in there? Have they began to encrust yet? What kind of snails were they? How many died?

A super good friend of mine with an acro dominated 325 had a massive fish death event a few weeks ago. His apex data, ORP, salinity, pH, alk, temp, flow etc didn't indicate anything abnormal. An ICP didn't show anything abnormal either. We have been unable to determine the cause of death for the dozen or so fish that died overnight, while leaving the other dozen unaffected. He's examined the fish and saw nothing extraordinary about them. It's sometimes a turkey shoot to pinpoint the root cause of something. I wish I could give you more advice on your issue.

 

[dustinc]

1/2"? Oh boy! definitely post some photos of him!

I've got nothing Dustin, there's too many variables at play here. Removing your basket and adding some carbon is a good start.

How old is the tank? How long have the acros been in there? Have they began to encrust yet? What kind of snails were they? How many died?

A super good friend of mine with an acro dominated 325 had a massive fish death event a few weeks ago. His apex data, ORP, salinity, pH, alk, temp, flow etc didn't indicate anything abnormal. An ICP didn't show anything abnormal either. We have been unable to determine the cause of death for the dozen or so fish that died overnight, while leaving the other dozen unaffected. He's examined the fish and saw nothing extraordinary about them. It's sometimes a turkey shoot to pinpoint the root cause of something. I wish I could give you more advice on your issue.

Tank started the cycle in January, so almost 9months old. Many of the acros have been in the tank months and most have already encrusted some and have been doing visibly well. Mostly trochus with a few turbos. Would say approximately 10 snails.

I have an ICP-MS coming back mid week because I planned to start Moonshiners to really dial in and then this happened… I’m really hoping we can stop it where it is now and don’t lose anything else.

Also, here is a pic of the little guy in a red solo cup… so stinking tiny.

 

[fish_collector]

OMG cute!

Fwiw, I can't keep turbos alive either, but maybe for a different reason than you have. Zebra turbos seem to do well for me, but not regular mexican turbos. Unless your tank is packed with corals and you have good active growth, 9 months may be much too soon to start a moonshiners regimen. Your tank is still going through some changes and you won't be able to accurately plot trace element consumption month to month so you'll be constantly adjusting the dose to chase numbers, and with that your water chemistry will be all over the place. If it were me, I'd do 30-50 gallon water changes every 2 weeks along with dosing 2 part or better yet kalk to maintain alk and pH. When your tank settles down and ages more then start your moonshiners regimen. Again just my opinion.

You can use your alk consumption as a rough guide to determine when trace element dosing is required. My SPS frag system didn't use much 2 part until about the 1 year mark, then I had to adjust the daily dose upwards every few weeks to meet demand. Constantly increasing alk consumption is the best indicator your reef is growing and on the right track. An interesting topic for sure.

 

[vetteguy53081]

It beco

Tank started the cycle in January, so almost 9months old. Many of the acros have been in the tank months and most have already encrusted some and have been doing visibly well. Mostly trochus with a few turbos. Would say approximately 10 snails.

I have an ICP-MS coming back mid week because I planned to start Moonshiners to really dial in and then this happened… I’m really hoping we can stop it where it is now and don’t lose anything else.

Also, here is a pic of the little guy in a red solo cup… so stinking tiny.

It becomes obvious than coincidental that issues began when basket went it and can be the petroleum base or plastic used to construct the basket but upon removing basket, see if Nitrate and PH stabilizes as well as on the snails - what as your calcium and alk level which may have been affected by the sporadic PH despite corals doing well.

 

[dustinc]

It beco

It becomes obvious than coincidental that issues began when basket went it and can be the petroleum base or plastic used to construct the basket but upon removing basket, see if Nitrate and PH stabilizes as well as on the snails - what as your calcium and alk level which may have been affected by the sporadic PH despite corals doing well.

Alk and Calcium have remained stable. (Alk 8.9 and Calcium 470.

I’m quite confident it has to be something on or in the basket.

I removed it last night and added carbon to the tank in a reactor to try and remove the toxin. Any other thoughts/ideas?

I have 50 gallons of fresh salt mixed, but probably not enough to make a dent

Had a few more acros die overnight. Also, it seems all snails and shrimp have died. Crabs and fish seem to be ok and acting completely normal as of now.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Alk and Calcium have remained stable. (Alk 8.9 and Calcium 470.

I’m quite confident it has to be something on or in the basket.

I removed it last night and added carbon to the tank in a reactor to try and remove the toxin. Any other thoughts/ideas?

I have 50 gallons of fresh salt mixed, but probably not enough to make a dent

Had a few more acros die overnight. Also, it seems all snails and shrimp have died. Crabs and fish seem to be ok and acting completely normal as of now.

I too suspect basket. Continue to monitor levels and add air stone in case dissolved oxygen is affected

 

[fish_collector]

Sorry about your rapid losses. I know we try to provide the best environment for them.

 

[dustinc]

***Update***

So it was a pesticide according to the oceamo organo test. I've removed almost all of it via water changes and CAC.

Now to the next issue. As soon as this was over, a massive algae problem has overtaken the tank. I believe it may be lyngbya based on what I can find but want your opinions. Thanks!

 

[Shibaken3]

Thank god you got things sorted out. Did you replace your CUC after the incident?

 

[dustinc]

Thank god you got things sorted out. Did you replace your CUC after the incident?

I haven’t yet. Actually tried to today at a LFS, but they had fish showing obvious signs of sickness in the system so didn’t want to bring that home. Hopefully this weekend.

I’m currently working on a 3d printable model to scrape the algae with a python attached to a vacuum suction so as I scrape it out it gets sucked out of the tank. I plan to use that as soon as it’s done to get out as much as possible to give the new cleanup crew a fighting chance. I do still have a couple snails that somehow survived. The 3 remaining ceriths actually eat the stuff well off the bare bottom. You can find their trails.

 

[Shibaken3]

I haven’t yet. Actually tried to today at a LFS, but they had fish showing obvious signs of sickness in the system so didn’t want to bring that home. Hopefully this weekend.

I’m currently working on a 3d printable model to scrape the algae with a python attached to a vacuum suction so as I scrape it out it gets sucked out of the tank. I plan to use that as soon as it’s done to get out as much as possible to give the new cleanup crew a fighting chance. I do still have a couple snails that somehow survived. The 3 remaining ceriths actually eat the stuff well off the bare bottom. You can find their trails.

Nice, you'll definitely beat it with regular maintenance and the addition of more CUC. If you don't want to bring illness to your tank, I recommend getting some CUC from the reef cleaners. They are clean.

 

[dustinc]

Nice, you'll definitely beat it with regular maintenance and the addition of more CUC. If you don't want to bring illness to your tank, I recommend getting some CUC from the reef cleaners. They are clean.

That's good to know. Never used them before. The problem I've found with online CUC is they tend to die much more than in store (guess the deaths already happened before I got there). ha ha

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What pesticide and what concentration ?

How do you think the pesticide entered the tank?

 

[dustinc]

What pesticide and what concentration ?

How do you think the pesticide entered the tank?

I apologize, it was an herbicide, “monolinuron“. It was at a low concentration because I did the test following the CAC and large water changes, but it had never been present on the previous test. I definitely feel it made its way in the tank from the plant basket I bought at Lowe’s in the outdoor section. Was very dirty when I picked it up and thought I rinsed well enough, but I guess not.

They also noted I had some Bis(2-ethylhexyl) amino that they recommended running carbon to remove.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I apologize, it was an herbicide, “monolinuron“. It was at a low concentration because I did the test following the CAC and large water changes, but it had never been present on the previous test. I definitely feel it made its way in the tank from the plant basket I bought at Lowe’s in the outdoor section. Was very dirty when I picked it up and thought I rinsed well enough, but I guess not.

They also noted I had some Bis(2-ethylhexyl) amino that they recommended running carbon to remove.

Ok, thanks for the info. :)