Help with diagnosis (ich, velvet, brooke?)

[LAjamil1]

Hi Everyone, firstly I appreciate any help and/or advice you can provide. Pretty stressed out right now about the state of my tank and am unsure of where to go from here. A bit of background, my tank has been established for around 2 years now, most of which has gone smoothly. There was some ich management but with the exception of 1 flare up the fish are happy, fat, and healthy. Due to the size, number of fish, and rock structure I decided it was best to manage rather than treat. As I mentioned, they eat like hippos and are chunky and content.

That is until a week or two ago. About 2 months ago a friend recommended a new LFS to me and I was told the fish were pre-QT'd and safe for immediate introduction into my DT. Stupidly, I took that advice and did not QT a copperband, a twinspot goby pair, and a snowflake eel. It was impulsive and I'm pretty disappointed in myself. I'm pretty sure the eel got the gobies, but the copperband never showed any signs of illness. It simply did not want to eat and would not eat frozen, pellets, or even live. I did see him eating in the store, however. The CB died maybe a month or so ago and as unfortunate as it was, life seemed to go on in the tank. The eel is doing great, btw. About a week ago I found my powder blue tang dead, followed by an orange storm clown yesterday, and now a cardinal. Given the CB was introduced almost 2 months ago, is it possible this infection/parasite was transmitted and laid dormant for that long? It seems to me that the foxface has what looks like ich, while the sailfin and blue hippo have velvet.

The only other thing that has changed is last weekend the power supply to my return pump fried. I went Sat. and Sun. with my return off, but left all of my wavemakers on with plenty of flow/surface action and also threw in 2 airstones for good measure.

I'm not sure how to verify a diagnosis, and frankly have never had to treat/dip/isolate any of my fish before. I know there is plenty of information here on R2R, but it's definitely intimidating and nerve-racking. I think either way I would like to treat them as I would ideally like a parasite free tank, but I know treatments vary per diagnosis and I'm just not sure what direction to go in right now. Thanks again in advance for any info/recommendations/diagnoses!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi Everyone, firstly I appreciate any help and/or advice you can provide. Pretty stressed out right now about the state of my tank and am unsure of where to go from here. A bit of background, my tank has been established for around 2 years now, most of which has gone smoothly. There was some ich management but with the exception of 1 flare up the fish are happy, fat, and healthy. Due to the size, number of fish, and rock structure I decided it was best to manage rather than treat. As I mentioned, they eat like hippos and are chunky and content.

That is until a week or two ago. About 2 months ago a friend recommended a new LFS to me and I was told the fish were pre-QT'd and safe for immediate introduction into my DT. Stupidly, I took that advice and did not QT a copperband, a twinspot goby pair, and a snowflake eel. It was impulsive and I'm pretty disappointed in myself. I'm pretty sure the eel got the gobies, but the copperband never showed any signs of illness. It simply did not want to eat and would not eat frozen, pellets, or even live. I did see him eating in the store, however. The CB died maybe a month or so ago and as unfortunate as it was, life seemed to go on in the tank. The eel is doing great, btw. About a week ago I found my powder blue tang dead, followed by an orange storm clown yesterday, and now a cardinal. Given the CB was introduced almost 2 months ago, is it possible this infection/parasite was transmitted and laid dormant for that long? It seems to me that the foxface has what looks like ich, while the sailfin and blue hippo have velvet.

The only other thing that has changed is last weekend the power supply to my return pump fried. I went Sat. and Sun. with my return off, but left all of my wavemakers on with plenty of flow/surface action and also threw in 2 airstones for good measure.

I'm not sure how to verify a diagnosis, and frankly have never had to treat/dip/isolate any of my fish before. I know there is plenty of information here on R2R, but it's definitely intimidating and nerve-racking. I think either way I would like to treat them as I would ideally like a parasite free tank, but I know treatments vary per diagnosis and I'm just not sure what direction to go in right now. Thanks again in advance for any info/recommendations/diagnoses!

These fish have cryptocaryon which is marine ich and as I tell anyone who get quarantined fish - Assume they have something on them and even give them a short quarantine of at least 14-21 days especially if the fish are shipped or new arrivals at an LFS
These are idiopathic mucus plugs and likely cryptocaryon which is Marine Ich and a freshwater dip will offer temporary relief IF fish is not breathing heavily. After dip, You will need to place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Everyone, firstly I appreciate any help and/or advice you can provide. Pretty stressed out right now about the state of my tank and am unsure of where to go from here. A bit of background, my tank has been established for around 2 years now, most of which has gone smoothly. There was some ich management but with the exception of 1 flare up the fish are happy, fat, and healthy. Due to the size, number of fish, and rock structure I decided it was best to manage rather than treat. As I mentioned, they eat like hippos and are chunky and content.

That is until a week or two ago. About 2 months ago a friend recommended a new LFS to me and I was told the fish were pre-QT'd and safe for immediate introduction into my DT. Stupidly, I took that advice and did not QT a copperband, a twinspot goby pair, and a snowflake eel. It was impulsive and I'm pretty disappointed in myself. I'm pretty sure the eel got the gobies, but the copperband never showed any signs of illness. It simply did not want to eat and would not eat frozen, pellets, or even live. I did see him eating in the store, however. The CB died maybe a month or so ago and as unfortunate as it was, life seemed to go on in the tank. The eel is doing great, btw. About a week ago I found my powder blue tang dead, followed by an orange storm clown yesterday, and now a cardinal. Given the CB was introduced almost 2 months ago, is it possible this infection/parasite was transmitted and laid dormant for that long? It seems to me that the foxface has what looks like ich, while the sailfin and blue hippo have velvet.

The only other thing that has changed is last weekend the power supply to my return pump fried. I went Sat. and Sun. with my return off, but left all of my wavemakers on with plenty of flow/surface action and also threw in 2 airstones for good measure.

I'm not sure how to verify a diagnosis, and frankly have never had to treat/dip/isolate any of my fish before. I know there is plenty of information here on R2R, but it's definitely intimidating and nerve-racking. I think either way I would like to treat them as I would ideally like a parasite free tank, but I know treatments vary per diagnosis and I'm just not sure what direction to go in right now. Thanks again in advance for any info/recommendations/diagnoses!

Sorry to hear all that. This looks like moderate ich to me. I think it is beyond the point of being able to manage it now. In rare cases, you can have multiple infections, ich and velvet. Are the fish breathing rapidly and not eating? If so, they may have both issues. If they are breathing more normally and mostly still eating, then I would say it is just ich, if you are unsure, you could try posting a video and I may be able to tell for you.

Treating this many fish is going to be a challenge, as you know. +1 on you needing to go with copper in a treatment tank. Trouble is, setting up a large treatment tank on the fly is tough, and you need to control the ammonia. If you have bio media from your display that you could pull and use in the treatment tank, that would help.

Jay

 

[LAjamil1]

These fish have cryptocaryon which is marine ich and as I tell anyone who get quarantined fish - Assume they have something on them and even give them a short quarantine of at least 14-21 days especially if the fish are shipped or new arrivals at an LFS
These are idiopathic mucus plugs and likely cryptocaryon which is Marine Ich and a freshwater dip will offer temporary relief IF fish is not breathing heavily. After dip, You will need to place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

Thanks, Vette! Appreciate the quick response. My concern was that the foxface clearly looks like it has ich, but am I incorrect in thinking the blue hippo looks a bit different? The spots on the foxface seem to be raised and similar in size which is consistent with Ich, but to me the blue hippo seems to have almost a dusty, velvety appearance? I can snap another picture/video if it would help. Is there a surefire way to differentiate between the two?

 

[LAjamil1]

Sorry to hear all that. This looks like moderate ich to me. I think it is beyond the point of being able to manage it now. In rare cases, you can have multiple infections, ich and velvet. Are the fish breathing rapidly and not eating? If so, they may have both issues. If they are breathing more normally and mostly still eating, then I would say it is just ich, if you are unsure, you could try posting a video and I may be able to tell for you.

Treating this many fish is going to be a challenge, as you know. +1 on you needing to go with copper in a treatment tank. Trouble is, setting up a large treatment tank on the fly is tough, and you need to control the ammonia. If you have bio media from your display that you could pull and use in the treatment tank, that would help.

Jay

Thanks, Jay! I understand it's going to be quite a challenge, fortunately I've been wanting to rescape so maybe this is an opportunity to kill 2 birds with 1 stone? My plan would be to use a large 100 gallon rubbermaid and treat them there. Otherwise I have a spare 20 and 32 gallon tank. The only issue is I was planning to use the 32 as a frag tank and I've heard that copper can be absorbed by the silicone making it uninhabitable in the future. I've heard both sides saying it's possible and not possible.

I am attempting to upload a video now and maybe that will give you a better idea of what's going on? If it's ich I just want to continue keeping them as healthy as possible until I have the supplies ready to transfer them. If it's velvet, however, I understand I should be getting them out and treating immediately right?

 

[LAjamil1]

Sorry to hear all that. This looks like moderate ich to me. I think it is beyond the point of being able to manage it now. In rare cases, you can have multiple infections, ich and velvet. Are the fish breathing rapidly and not eating? If so, they may have both issues. If they are breathing more normally and mostly still eating, then I would say it is just ich, if you are unsure, you could try posting a video and I may be able to tell for you.

Treating this many fish is going to be a challenge, as you know. +1 on you needing to go with copper in a treatment tank. Trouble is, setting up a large treatment tank on the fly is tough, and you need to control the ammonia. If you have bio media from your display that you could pull and use in the treatment tank, that would help.

Jay

Breathing seems to be about normal, maybe slightly elevated in a few of them but nothing drastic. Appetites are there but not what they typically are. For example, these guys can clear sheet after sheet of nori without hesitation. Right now they haven't finished the first sheet from earlier. They did eat the brine, spirulina, and frozen megamarine algae I threw in earlier, though. Getting that video transferred over now. Thanks again!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Breathing seems to be about normal, maybe slightly elevated in a few of them but nothing drastic. Appetites are there but not what they typically are. For example, these guys can clear sheet after sheet of nori without hesitation. Right now they haven't finished the first sheet from earlier. They did eat the brine, spirulina, and frozen megamarine algae I threw in earlier, though. Getting that video transferred over now. Thanks again!

Good on eating. Tub is acceptable. Assure its clean with fresh seawater and air stone for added oxygen

 

[LAjamil1]

@vetteguy53081
@Jay Hemdal

Here is a video of them hovering around the feeding tube waiting for it to thaw. Not sure if I am just crazy seeing a powdery sheen to the hippo? The spots also don't look uniform like they do on the foxface.

 

[vetteguy53081]

@vetteguy53081
@Jay Hemdal

Here is a video of them hovering around the feeding tube waiting for it to thaw. Not sure if I am just crazy seeing a powdery sheen to the hippo? The spots also don't look uniform like they do on the foxface.

Fish and camera moving quite a bit , but may be mucus cones rather than dusty. If velvet played a role as dont seen in video, some signs you would notice but not limited to are fish will scratch body against hard objects, lethargic behavior, Loss of appetite and weight loss, Rapid, labored breathing, Fins clamped against the body, and typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium.

 

[LAjamil1]

Fish and camera moving quite a bit , but may be mucus cones rather than dusty. If velvet played a role as dont seen in video, some signs you would notice but not limited to are fish will scratch body against hard objects, lethargic behavior, Loss of appetite and weight loss, Rapid, labored breathing, Fins clamped against the body, and typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium.

Thanks again, the only thing that I'm noticing out of that list of symptoms is reduced interest in food but still eating. They are still swimming around for the most part. If velvet was introduced, say, 1.5 months ago, would it likely have already taken everything in the tank out by now?

 

[LAjamil1]

Fish and camera moving quite a bit , but may be mucus cones rather than dusty. If velvet played a role as dont seen in video, some signs you would notice but not limited to are fish will scratch body against hard objects, lethargic behavior, Loss of appetite and weight loss, Rapid, labored breathing, Fins clamped against the body, and typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium.

So everything else is being active, swimming around, eating Nori. But I am noticing my sailfin swimming into the powerhead. Nothing else though, specifically the foxface and blue hippo which seem to have it the worst. None of the other symptoms you mentioned. Is it possible ich would cause him to do that?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Swimming

So everything else is being active, swimming around, eating Nori. But I am noticing my sailfin swimming into the powerhead. Nothing else though, specifically the foxface and blue hippo which seem to have it the worst. None of the other symptoms you mentioned. Is it possible ich would cause him to do that?

into powerhead is an indication of velvet
Same coppersafe treatment

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks, Jay! I understand it's going to be quite a challenge, fortunately I've been wanting to rescape so maybe this is an opportunity to kill 2 birds with 1 stone? My plan would be to use a large 100 gallon rubbermaid and treat them there. Otherwise I have a spare 20 and 32 gallon tank. The only issue is I was planning to use the 32 as a frag tank and I've heard that copper can be absorbed by the silicone making it uninhabitable in the future. I've heard both sides saying it's possible and not possible.

I am attempting to upload a video now and maybe that will give you a better idea of what's going on? If it's ich I just want to continue keeping them as healthy as possible until I have the supplies ready to transfer them. If it's velvet, however, I understand I should be getting them out and treating immediately right?

I'm not a fan of big vats - they don't offer any lateral viewing of the fish, just at the time when you need the best observations. However, if the option is to put a lot of fish in small tanks, then it might be the lesser of two evils.

Coppersafe won't absorb into silicone, just calcareous rocks. You can reuse the tank and equipment after washing it with vinegar.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@vetteguy53081
@Jay Hemdal

Here is a video of them hovering around the feeding tube waiting for it to thaw. Not sure if I am just crazy seeing a powdery sheen to the hippo? The spots also don't look uniform like they do on the foxface.

That still looks like ich to me, it could be a mixed infection with velvet, but the fish are not breathing as fast as I would think if that were the case. Coppersafe will handle both issues though.

Jay