Help with distressed or sick clown

Computom

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Hi!
I've been lurking around here for months, learning a lot. You all are great. First time posting.

So, I have a 15 gal tank, with a small sump and a 5 gal refugium tank. mixed soft corals and zoas, a bta, a dozen or so hrmits, snails a brittle star and an emerald crab.
I've had it running for about 4 months, and it was previously running for 7 months with the old owner.
I've have not done a full battery of parameter tests, but I did test ammonia and it come up zero. (api test)
Temp is sbout 77/78
Salinity .024-.025
Temp did climb a degree of so today, hot day. did not exceed 80.
So on to the problem.
I got 2 fish about 5 days ago. a firefish and a caramel occelaris (as best I can figure)
The firefish hid for days, coming out now, looks totally fine and healthy.
The clown looked great and was active and curious until today. spent all day hiding, and I noticed a pale spot kinda between his dorsal in and his eye. on both sides. it's gotten paler and his dorsal fun is looking translucent. it seems to have progressed a lot during the day. I can see his little mouth opening and closing rather rapidly.
I searched pretty hard for someone having this issue with no luck. Sounds kinda like Brooklynrlla, but none of tge pics I found look at all right. I see no damaged scales or wierd textures, only loss of color.
I did notice him touching the bta, but haven't found anyone saying a sting would look like this.
I got a couple not awesome pics. the lighter area was a rock dark orange colour yesterday.
I didn't quarantine them, since they came together and have no tankmates.
Anyone seen this before?
Not sure those pics are real great. the bright white spot on dorsal in pic 1 is on the glass, not the fish.
Thanks!

I do have a bit of a lot of digitate hydroids that are a bit of a bother to my zoas... don't think they'd be able to mess him up that bad tho.

20210620_185108.jpg 20210620_184837.jpg
 
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Computom

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Hi!
I've been lurking around here for months, learning a lot. You all are great. First time posting.

So, I have a 15 gal tank, with a small sump and a 5 gal refugium tank. mixed soft corals and zoas, a bta, a dozen or so hrmits, snails a brittle star and an emerald crab.
I've had it running for about 4 months, and it was previously running for 7 months with the old owner.
I've have not done a full battery of parameter tests, but I did test ammonia and it come up zero. (api test)
Temp is sbout 77/78
Salinity .024-.025
Temp did climb a degree of so today, hot day. did not exceed 80.
So on to the problem.
I got 2 fish about 5 days ago. a firefish and a caramel occelaris (as best I can figure)
The firefish hid for days, coming out now, looks totally fine and healthy.
The clown looked great and was active and curious until today. spent all day hiding, and I noticed a pale spot kinda between his dorsal in and his eye. on both sides. it's gotten paler and his dorsal fun is looking translucent. it seems to have progressed a lot during the day. I can see his little mouth opening and closing rather rapidly.
I searched pretty hard for someone having this issue with no luck. Sounds kinda like Brooklynrlla, but none of tge pics I found look at all right. I see no damaged scales or wierd textures, only loss of color.
I did notice him touching the bta, but haven't found anyone saying a sting would look like this.
I got a couple not awesome pics. the lighter area was a rock dark orange colour yesterday.
I didn't quarantine them, since they came together and have no tankmates.
Anyone seen this before?
Not sure those pics are real great. the bright white spot on dorsal in pic 1 is on the glass, not the fish.
Thanks!

I do have a bit of a lot of digitate hydroids that are a bit of a bother to my zoas... don't think they'd be able to mess him up that bad tho.

20210620_185108.jpg 20210620_184837.jpg
Oops.
The lighter area was a RICH dark color yesterday...
Not rock.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Oops.
The lighter area was a RICH dark color yesterday...
Not rock.
Very good first post, you included lots of information! Now the pressure is on to try and figure out what’s going on here. The rapid breathing is the concerning symptom. Is the clown still eating? If it is a protozoan disease like Brooklynella, you won’t be able to treat it effectively in the tank.
Could you try posting a short video so I can judge the breathing rate a bit better?
Jay
 
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Computom

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Very good first post, you included lots of information! Now the pressure is on to try and figure out what’s going on here. The rapid breathing is the concerning symptom. Is the clown still eating? If it is a protozoan disease like Brooklynella, you won’t be able to treat it effectively in the tank.
Could you try posting a short video so I can judge the breathing rate a
Thanks for your reply!
He has worsened even more, paler and breathing even faster.
I am about to do a water change.
I will get a video asap after that.
 
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Computom

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Thanks for your reply!
He has worsened even more, paler and breathing even faster.
I am about to do a water change.
I will get a video asap after that.
Alas...
He has passed on while I was mixing salt water.
Very sad.
Rapid decline. he was seeming fine and active and happy last night. still feeding about 4 hrs ago. now dead.

My firefish who basically hid for 5 days is now out and about and looking fine.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Alas...
He has passed on while I was mixing salt water.
Very sad.
Rapid decline. he was seeming fine and active and happy last night. still feeding about 4 hrs ago. now dead.

My firefish who basically hid for 5 days is now out and about and looking fine.
Sorry to hear. It could have been velvet or Brooklynella. Don't rush out and replace it....wait to see that your firefish doesn't develop symptoms. I generally wait at least 30 days after I lose a fish to an unknown problem before adding another fish, 45 days is even better.

Jay
 
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Sorry to hear. It could have been velvet or Brooklynella. Don't rush out and replace it....wait to see that your firefish doesn't develop symptoms. I generally wait at least 30 days after I lose a fish to an unknown problem before adding another fish, 45 days is even better.

Jay
Yes, Thanks Jay, definetly adding nothing until that time.

I no longer think that the problem was a disease however. Once i was able to do some parameter tests i found that Nitrates were through the roof. like 160! Never seen such a thing before. did about 4 50+% water changes and now have them down to under 40. All residents are much happier.
I beleive that my skimmer was malfunctioning and not skimming, as well as likely some overfeeding was happening and also some filter sponges that were dirty and not helping things.
Still seems like a rediculously high reading but thats what it was.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Yes, Thanks Jay, definetly adding nothing until that time.

I no longer think that the problem was a disease however. Once i was able to do some parameter tests i found that Nitrates were through the roof. like 160! Never seen such a thing before. did about 4 50+% water changes and now have them down to under 40. All residents are much happier.
I beleive that my skimmer was malfunctioning and not skimming, as well as likely some overfeeding was happening and also some filter sponges that were dirty and not helping things.
Still seems like a rediculously high reading but thats what it was.
Could be, but nitrates are relatively non-toxic. Many public aquariums have nitrate levels that high. One thing though - find out if your test kit measures nitrate or nitrate-nitrogen. If the former, divide by 4.4 to get the actual nitrate-nitrogen reading. So - if your kit reads "nitrate" divide 160 by 4.4 = 36 mg/l nitrate-nitrogen, a bit high for a reef tank, but fine for fish.

Jay
 
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Could be, but nitrates are relatively non-toxic. Many public aquariums have nitrate levels that high. One thing though - find out if your test kit measures nitrate or nitrate-nitrogen. If the former, divide by 4.4 to get the actual nitrate-nitrogen reading. So - if your kit reads "nitrate" divide 160 by 4.4 = 36 mg/l nitrate-nitrogen, a bit high for a reef tank, but fine for fish.

Jay
Its an API test kit. Nothing I read said I should divide the reading... id love to though!
Which type is that?
I have read that the directions need to be followed to the letter or false things happen, which is what i did. I tested very high 160+ multiple times, then a roughly 50% water change brought it down to around 80, followed by another water change a few days later which brought the reading to around 40.
As far as I can tell that math checks out, so I wasnt really suspecting bad tests.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Its an API test kit. Nothing I read said I should divide the reading... id love to though!
Which type is that?
I have read that the directions need to be followed to the letter or false things happen, which is what i did. I tested very high 160+ multiple times, then a roughly 50% water change brought it down to around 80, followed by another water change a few days later which brought the reading to around 40.
As far as I can tell that math checks out, so I wasnt really suspecting bad tests.
It looks like API may not even know what their kit measures (grin). It appears they are testing nitrate ion, so divide that by 4.4 to get nitrate-nitrogen, so at that level, it wasn't harmful to your fish (but bad for corals).

Jay
 
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It looks like API may not even know what their kit measures (grin). It appears they are testing nitrate ion, so divide that by 4.4 to get nitrate-nitrogen, so at that level, it wasn't harmful to your fish (but bad for corals).

Jay
That was kinda the impression i got trying to figure out what the test was for too.
Ok, so youre saying that my API test result of 160+ would translate into a nitrate level (as is generally reported by folks) of only 40? and my current reading of 40 would be less than 10?
The little card thing with the colors says ppm... theres something fishy there id say.
Not having warm fuzzy api feelings at all on this.
Tho i feel less distressed about the levels.
Without question my corals have all responded well to the lowered levels.
 

Jay Hemdal

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That was kinda the impression i got trying to figure out what the test was for too.
Ok, so youre saying that my API test result of 160+ would translate into a nitrate level (as is generally reported by folks) of only 40? and my current reading of 40 would be less than 10?
The little card thing with the colors says ppm... theres something fishy there id say.
Not having warm fuzzy api feelings at all on this.
Tho i feel less distressed about the levels.
Without question my corals have all responded well to the lowered levels.
Us - your nitrate-nitrogen level is less than 10 ppm, so not too bad.
Ppm and mg/l are interchangeable units of measure if that’s what you are asking.
Jay
 
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Computom

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I have searched a bunch for mention of this, having no luck. everywhere I read about the API nitrate test says that it measures ppm, or mg/l. no mention of dividing by 4.4
Can't find anyone on r2r or elsewhere saying this.
So I'm confused.
Jay, where did you get this info from?
 
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Computom

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I have searched a bunch for mention of this, having no luck. everywhere I read about the API nitrate test says that it measures ppm, or mg/l. no mention of dividing by 4.4
Can't find anyone on r2r or elsewhere saying this.
So I'm confused.
Jay, where did you get this info from?

I spoke too soon, found a thread explaining the confusion.

From what I can gather, the api and salient tests both test nitrate in ppm. other, fancier tests show nitrate-nitrogen, which is 4.4 times less than nitrate ppm reading.
So it seems that to report nitrate ppm, which is what everyone does, you use api and salifery test results as is, but for those fancier folks with fancier tests that do nitrate-nitrogen, THOSE people need to multiply by 4.4 to get their result in ppm.
Confusing indeed
I think I should've paid more attention in chemistry class instead of daydreaming about fish!
 

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