Help with id of algae/bacteria

[tirish]

Have what I thought was cyno bacteria in my tank but then I’m starting to think it may be Dino’s, which I’m not really sure what they even are. Chat gpt helped me. Any ideas ?

 

[EnterName]

White light makes the identification much easier.

On a first glance I would say dinoflagellates, but a microscope sample makes the identification much easier. The substrate is very clean which is unusual but not impossible in that case.

Dinoflagellates should be relatively easy to siphon into a turkey baster or feeding pipette, while hair algae that's covered in diatoms to turn it brown would keep being stuck to the rocks. Cyano mats are usually purple/red in reef tanks and chrysophytes are rare and often very pale. Diatoms alone rarely cover the rocks, they prefer the substrate and are looking more like dust than slime.

Does the slime grow and shrink throughout the day significantly? Like a lot less in the evening and at peak shortly before the lights start to dim?

 

[Privateye]

It looks like cyano in my opinion. The color is right, the growth pattern is right, and I'm not seeing a lot of bubbles in it. Where it's moving in the video, it looks like some was lifted up by the flow instead of growing some 3 dimensional structure like a blob of dinos and bubbles.

 

[EnterName]

It looks like cyano in my opinion. The color is right, the growth pattern is right, and I'm not seeing a lot of bubbles in it. Where it's moving in the video, it looks like some was lifted up by the flow instead of growing some 3 dimensional structure like a blob of dinos and bubbles.

You might be right, in this video the color could match cyanos if that is actually under neutral light. Night mode on my phone might have tricked me

 

[tirish]

White light makes the identification much easier.

On a first glance I would say dinoflagellates, but a microscope sample makes the identification much easier. The substrate is very clean which is unusual but not impossible in that case.

Dinoflagellates should be relatively easy to siphon into a turkey baster or feeding pipette, while hair algae that's covered in diatoms to turn it brown would keep being stuck to the rocks. Cyano mats are usually purple/red in reef tanks and chrysophytes are rare and often very pale. Diatoms alone rarely cover the rocks, they prefer the substrate and are looking more like dust than slime.

Does the slime grow and shrink throughout the day significantly? Like a lot less in the evening and at peak shortly before the lights start to dim?

 

[Privateye]

Thanks for the white light video! That actually makes me hold my prior assessment back a bit, at least for the moment.

Are the rocks covered in coralline algae, which then has a layer of brown film over parts of it? Or is the reddish-pink from cyanobacteria, which also has some other algae growing among it?

Or, I suppose, were these rocks painted/colored to begin with?

Basically, is it the red algae that's of concern, or the brown on top of it?

 

[EnterName]

Or, I suppose, were these rocks painted/colored to begin with?

That's what I though as well. I've not seen such red rocks before. Maybe OP is really lucky with a fancy coralline strain, or its artificial color.

The brown slime on the substrate and on top of the rocks is turning me towards dinos again though...

 

[tirish]

Thanks for the white light video! That actually makes me hold my prior assessment back a bit, at least for the moment.

Are the rocks covered in coralline algae, which then has a layer of brown film over parts of it? Or is the reddish-pink from cyanobacteria, which also has some other algae growing among it?

Or, I suppose, were these rocks painted/colored to begin with?

Basically, is it the red algae that's of concern, or the brown on top of it?

The rocks are covered in coralline, or atleast that’s what I thought. . I purchased them as live rock from my lfs.

 

[Moe K]

That looks to be either caribsea liferock or Aquaforest rock which is usually colored purple. One thing for sure is that is not cyano. Only a microscope sample will get you 100% identification.

 

[tirish]

That looks to be either caribsea liferock or Aquaforest rock which is usually colored purple. One thing for sure is that is not cyano. Only a microscope sample will get you 100% identification.

The tank is about 5 months old. Not sure if that helps or not.

 

[Moe K]

The tank is about 5 months old. Not sure if that helps or not.

Not that this is a 100% identification but could be diatoms. Diatoms are usually a lighter golden brown. Dinos when in large numbers become a darker brown. But all this is deceiving from photos as it could look a totally different tone in real life vs the photo.

 

[EnterName]

The tank is about 5 months old. Not sure if that helps or not.

5 months is a bit late for the typical diatom phase, but still possible. However, they rarely create these stringy-bits. It would be a very severe case. I would just make sure the RO/DI you are using is reading 0ppm TDS with an appropriate pure water tester and then a diatom issue would resolve itself over time as long as you replace the DI-resin(s) of your RO/DI unit regularly.

I still think it's dinoflagellates. They don't have to create visible bubbles, it seems to depend on various factors such as flow, and species.

 

[tirish]

Not that this is a 100% identification but could be diatoms. Diatoms are usually a lighter golden brown. Dinos when in large numbers become a darker brown. But all this is deceiving from photos as it could look a totally different tone in real life vs the photo.

5 months is a bit late for the typical diatom phase, but still possible. However, they rarely create these stringy-bits. It would be a very severe case. I would just make sure the RO/DI you are using is reading 0ppm TDS with an appropriate pure water tester and then a diatom issue would resolve itself over time as long as you replace the DI-resin(s) of your RO/DI unit regularly.

I still think it's dinoflagellates. They don't have to create visible bubbles, it seems to depend on various factors such as flow, and species.

Is there anything I can do to get rid of it if it’s Dino? I’ll check the filter.

 

[tirish]

Is there anything I can do to get rid of it if it’s Dino? I’ll check the filter.

Also, wouldn’t the corals, fish and or anemone be affected if there was something wrong with the water from the filter?

 

[EnterName]

Is there anything I can do to get rid of it if it’s Dino? I’ll check the filter.

Also, wouldn’t the corals, fish and or anemone be affected if there was something wrong with the water from the filter?

The RO gets rid of most harmful stuff but the DI resin is required to get certain substances out that are harder to remove. Silicate is one of them. It doesn't harm corals but causes diatom growth because they use it to create their outer layer/shell. In other words: no a failing filter does not immediately cause issues with your corals.

 

[EnterName]

Not that this is a 100% identification but could be diatoms. Diatoms are usually a lighter golden brown. Dinos when in large numbers become a darker brown. But all this is deceiving from photos as it could look a totally different tone in real life vs the photo.

5 months is a bit late for the typical diatom phase, but still possible. However, they rarely create these stringy-bits. It would be a very severe case. I would just make sure the RO/DI you are using is reading 0ppm TDS with an appropriate pure water tester and then a diatom issue would resolve itself over time as long as you replace the DI-resin(s) of your RO/DI unit regularly.

I still think it's dinoflagellates. They don't have to create visible bubbles, it seems to depend on various factors such as flow, and species.

Is there anything I can do to get rid of it if it’s Dino? I’ll check the filter.

At the 5 month mark dinos are still pretty common and I assume the issue will resolve itself. I would measure nitrate and phosphate and ensure they are very low but detectable (non zero). During dinoflagellate blooms it's common to have bottomed out nutrient levels, either because they consume a lot or because they appear when nutrients drop to low levels. It's a highly debated topic to be honest and I think both can happen
During any outbreaks having very low or even undetectable nutrient levels would be a "good" thing, but when dealing with dinos it can sometimes make sense to add what's missing using diy solutions. Many people recommend UV sterilization, manual removal, and bottled bacteria products. If the stains don't disappear at night some people recommend blackouts to encourage the dinos to migrate into the open water column and hopefully end up in the uv sterilizer. If all that doesn't help silicate dosing to encourage diatom growth is another approach to replace the dinos wirh far easier to control diatoms. Over time silicates will deplete and the diatoms vanish.

I hope I didn't forget anything important but that's the tough overview

 

[tirish]

Not that this is a 100% identification but could be diatoms. Diatoms are usually a lighter golden brown. Dinos when in large numbers become a darker brown. But all this is deceiving from photos as it could look a totally different tone in real life vs the photo.

The RO gets rid of most harmful stuff but the DI resin is required to get certain substances out that are harder to remove. Silicate is one of them. It doesn't harm corals but causes diatom growth because they use it to create their outer layer/shell. In other words: no a failing filter does not immediately cause issues with your corals.

I’ll take a look at my Di filter. Haven’t even thought to replace it. Is this something that will potentially get better with a replacement filter and water changes then?

 

[EnterName]

Not that this is a 100% identification but could be diatoms. Diatoms are usually a lighter golden brown. Dinos when in large numbers become a darker brown. But all this is deceiving from photos as it could look a totally different tone in real life vs the photo.

The RO gets rid of most harmful stuff but the DI resin is required to get certain substances out that are harder to remove. Silicate is one of them. It doesn't harm corals but causes diatom growth because they use it to create their outer layer/shell. In other words: no a failing filter does not immediately cause issues with your corals.

I’ll take a look at my Di filter. Haven’t even thought to replace it. Is this something that will potentially get better with a replacement filter and water changes then?

Diatoms would get worse with water changes until the filter is replaced, then water changes help a little bit to shorten the amount of time it takes for them to use up the dissolved silicates.

It's very inefficient though and many people use silicate adsorbers. The only backdraw is that those will also adsorb phosphate, so if you are already low on phosphate that can cause some issues.