help with sand issues

brandon429 · Jul 31, 2015

nobody likes to dump peroxide in peoples tanks more than me heh

but for this thread, my call:

not dinos at all, cyano

large grain dsb holding detritus, feeding it

gfo fix ya up, dump no oxidizer. agreed on freeswimmers, both for cyano and dinos, UV is an excellent backup for a system with large grain dsb, it can be a key tool in about a year trust me.

common colors for cyano in marine and fw tanks
dark black, blue, red, green, brown, and golden.
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WetWhistle · Jul 31, 2015

Be careful with the peroxide and sps. You know the bubbling that it does on your skin? That is because it is eating it. Think of what it does to your fish and inverts. Just because you can use something doesn't mean you should. I would never use it in my tank. I have seen people kill their tank with this stuff because they were slightly off. Plenty of other options to use.

If you look at this thread even Randy doesn't recommend using it as it is it is an irritant to living organisms.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/just-added-hydrogen-peroxide-and.201616/#post-2305205

Just my two cents.

brandon429 · Jul 31, 2015

What about the threads that are 60 pages of nothing but pro peroxide work in giant sps tanks and no losses? id be different to replace peroxide with another cure and make a big proof thread, but we cant discount the work done with it, threads are too big w too many predictions fulfilled.

I just meant it wasn't applicable here, not for cyano.

WetWhistle · Jul 31, 2015

People can if they want but I have seen first hand what it does to tanks so I will not. People making comments on how it causes no harm is false. My buddy lost everything in his 300 gallon and he is an experienced reefer or over 20 years. His SPS started to RTN right after he dosed and then it spread like wild fire. Have some people had success using it? Yes. Just because someone jumps off a bridge and survives does that mean you should to? No. Using it is a bandage and not a fix. All it does is treat the symptoms and not the root cause. People should be looking at fixing the cause of something and not just bandage something. Not a quick fix. To each is own I guess.

brandon429 · Jul 31, 2015

same could be said for kalk, overdoses have killed tanks, that doesnt impact correct use. i would say your friend did other than what the 60 pages show, a rogue! lol nr jj.

yes its among elective products no foul in disconsidering, as long as you dont get one of the the obligate hitchhikers its best used to fix (not cyano). I hope nobody does. the reason i use it so much is for the public demand for tank fixes not just theory, actual hard work threads, they command that and it keeps me busy. i dont use it much in my tank anymore having killed off the offenders, through w stocking frags, now home free.
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Wiz · Jul 31, 2015

Does not look like dynos. I fought them for a long time. No streamers, no bubbles. Both telltale dyno signs. Bet itsjust slime. Which should make you very happy.

Wiz · Jul 31, 2015

Doesn't look like dinos. No streamers or air bubbles both of which are telltale signs of dinos. How long does it take to reappear when removed. My dinos would comeback in 20-30 mins. Fastest thing I've seen in reefing. Fought them for months. Been gone for months now. Buy I'm still scared. That just looms like slime to me. Heres a pic of dinos.

Wiz · Jul 31, 2015

Sry for the double post. My internet is acting funny

WetWhistle · Jul 31, 2015

If you are an experienced reefer and choose to use it you can cut down on the risk. But people that are not familiar with its use and dosing should not be lead to believe that it is some magical fix that you dump into your tank and it fixes your issue. They should use with caution if they so choose to. Reading over some of the threads on this topic if I was new to the hobby I would think it is ok to use without caution because of how nonchalant some people are with its use. A little algae on your sand so you dose you tank with it is overkill. Figure out the scope of your issue and react to that.

I take a different approach in reefing. I cultivate the food web. If you have a healthy food web as your algae blooms and wanes so do the things that eat the problem algae and it is easily handled by them. A productive refugium with macro algae that is harvested weekly goes a long way in curbing problem algae. I myself don't like chemical fixes and lean towards more natural ones if I can.

All I am saying is use with cation. Weight the prows and cons. Is fixing some algae on your sand worth risking all your coral or not? People should be asking themselves what was the last thing I did that could have caused this? Did I just dump in a lot of livestock and the increase of bio load? Are my filters, pre-filters, filter socks, skimmer and other hardware clean? Have I done a water change or need to? Did I overfeed with all the nutrient packed coral food and fish foods? Is my flow rate high enough on my substrate? Are my bulbs getting old? Am I using to much carbon dosing? When I troubleshoot I don't try and see what is causing the issue right away and jump to conclusions. I make an educated guess through experience of what is the most likely the cause and then one by one I strike off my list of what is not causing it. This way when you get to the end of what you think is causing the issue you have narrowed your view and scope of the issue and not just assumed something caused it without trying anything. I have been doing this for 28 years and it has never lead me astray.

Wiz · Jul 31, 2015

^^ completly agree. Only if it is dinos, most things won't eat it. And most that do will get sick and might even die. Scarlet hermits and tiger sand conchs are the only two I had that did not get harmed. The conchs were quite helpful :-)

Breakthecycle2 · Jul 31, 2015

Wiz said:
Doesn't look like dinos. No streamers or air bubbles both of which are telltale signs of dinos. How long does it take to reappear when removed. My dinos would comeback in 20-30 mins. Fastest thing I've seen in reefing. Fought them for months. Been gone for months now. Buy I'm still scared. That just looms like slime to me. Heres a pic of dinos.

This is not a pic of Dyno's. This is cyano as mine looked exactly like this.

Breakthecycle2 · Jul 31, 2015

To the OP. You are 100% not dealing with Dino's. It is Cyano.

runzwithscissors · Jul 31, 2015

+1 with what wetwhistler said. It's a double edge sword imho. If you've been into reefing for awhile, adjustments in feeding, lighting, reactors etc is always the best way to go. Newer sw aquarists see something not right with their tank and go first to chemicals because it's posted somewhere on the Internet or their lfs recommends it to increase their bottom line. Adding calcium or mag is something that may have to be done chemically as we aren't using ocean water and we need to replicate it as best as we can. With soooo many tank sizes and configurations, what will work for one tank set up could be disastrous for another. Imo, each person should study cause and effect and make the adjustments from there without the use of chemicals. If it is a case of imminent danger of losing livestock, I wholeheartedly agree of using the chemicals on a short term basis until the problem can be resolved by changing routines in maintenance/feeding etc. Just my opinion here, but for me I am afraid that any any chemical I add to (short of cal/mag etc) may very well reduce the lifespan or growth of any livestock in my tank. If someone has a stubborn problem that won't go away at least to me, is that the appropriate changes haven't been made to remedy the problem. I might just be full of it, but I'd settle for a bit less pristine looking tank (until I find the correction) than to add chemicals. Sometimes it's a trial and error based question, but as long as my livestock/corals aren't dramatically affected I'll stick with changing my habits in maintenance/feeding etc. On the devils advocate side, I'd hate to see see a newcomer quit the hobby because they have issues that seem insurmountable to them. That's why I hang around on this forum, as long as I've been keeping reef tanks I still learn processes that keep me relatively chemical free. Even if a person has been in the hobby for awhile, our tanks can take a weird turn.

Wiz · Jul 31, 2015

First, I would never say anything 100% in this hobby. Secondly, in my opinion that is dinos which i fought for months as I previously stated. The air bubbles that are caught in the brown and pulling it off the sand bed are one up the tell-tale signs of dinos. I do not believe that cyano has the trait. I also do not believe that cyano comes off the bed and streamers like this. So I will not say that you are wrong, but I will say a little research should give you the answer

Breakthecycle2 said:
This is not a pic of Dyno's. This is cyano as mine looked exactly like this.

Wiz · Jul 31, 2015

Slime Algae:

Red, brown, black and green, it grows in sheets and coats your substrate, and any other sessile object. This is a very common problem, and it can grow quickly. Primary causes are silicates and phosphates. Best tips are to follow the entire master list, concentrating on good water and skimming. In fish only tanks with acute (not chronic) problems, a tab of erythromycin per 50 gallons one time only will kill it in 24 hours. Shut off your skimmer during this period and remove activated carbon or polyfilters. Do not use repeatedly or you will kill your biological filter. Do not sue in reef tanks.

Dinoflagelates:

Looks like brown slime algae that grows up in strands, and typically has small bubbles trapped in it. Outbreaks can be sudden and severe, and damaging to corals. Siphon it off, reduce photoperiod temporarily, reduce trace element additions, and crank your pH to 8.6. the pH must be maintained high continuously for it to work.

Wiz · Jul 31, 2015

Just defanitions taken from a reef site :-)

reefndude · Jul 31, 2015

I agree with using stuff like peroxide with caution just like anything else you put into your tank. In my case I did use peroxide to combat dinos.
I first thought I had some cyanobacteria then one day it just exploded. It was everywhere and out of control. After losing all but one of my sixteen fish 3 sps colonies and coming close to losing a handful more I went with the peroxide. It did the trick for me.
I've used peroxide for other reasons prior to that. One was to control algae until I was able to fix the root problem. I have used as a zoa dip, but never for sps. There are guidelines to follow and you must be careful.
It is always a good idea to do your research before adding anything to your tank.

Breakthecycle2 · Jul 31, 2015

Wiz said:
First, I would never say anything 100% in this hobby. Secondly, in my opinion that is dinos which i fought for months as I previously stated. The air bubbles that are caught in the brown and pulling it off the sand bed are one up the tell-tale signs of dinos. I do not believe that cyano has the trait. I also do not believe that cyano comes off the bed and streamers like this. So I will not say that you are wrong, but I will say a little research should give you the answer

It is. I had mine, which I posted pics of, had examined under a microscope to confirm what I was dealing with.