High Nitrate but Phosphate untraceable

SiD

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
125
Reaction score
103
Location
Torrance, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley

My Tank is 10 months old 300 litres mixed reef with few softies, 2 LPS and 1 recently added Bird nest. 9 small fishes with the exception of one Scoopas Tang. The display has about 40 pounds of live rocks and 3 inches of live sand substrate.

I have Bubble Magus curve 5, Drop .6 and Slip .7 from Santa Monica, 2 Nano Blocks and 3 kgs of Bio spheres from Maxspect in my sump. I have been dosing AF NP Pro and Pro Bio S regularly since Feb 21. Salt is Quantum Probiotic. I was running a in sump UV 24*7 but took it out a month back. Tried Cheato last year but it did not grow. The Drop .6 grows some algae but the Slip .7 has negligible growth.

I have this Nutrient Imbalance since last 6 month. The corals seems to be fine till now. And presently no visible algae. What should I do to correct this imbalance ? I was thinking of dosing Seachem Flourish Phosphorus?

Please provide your valuable advise.

Thanks in advance.
Sid
Screenshot_20210622-184122_Aquarimate.jpg
Screenshot_20210619-125837_ReefTrace Live.jpg
 

Quietman

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
3,245
Reaction score
10,847
Location
Indiana - born and bred
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So everything looks good? If so, the "nutrient imbalance" isn't doing any harm. You have measurable phosphates more often that not and anywhere from 10 to 35 ppm nitrates. I don't see a huge issue here to correct. Keep monitoring, let the tank adjust to the new stock, see where it ends up and then what if anything to correct. If the nitrates are causing you some concern...add a W/C or two to your schedule.
 
OP
OP
SiD

SiD

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
125
Reaction score
103
Location
Torrance, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So everything looks good? If so, the "nutrient imbalance" isn't doing any harm. You have measurable phosphates more often that not and anywhere from 10 to 35 ppm nitrates. I don't see a huge issue here to correct. Keep monitoring, let the tank adjust to the new stock, see where it ends up and then what if anything to correct. If the nitrates are causing you some concern...add a W/C or two to your schedule.
I do 20% WC biweekly.
 
OP
OP
SiD

SiD

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
125
Reaction score
103
Location
Torrance, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Can I dose Seachem Phosphorus to bring down Nitrate then stop?
 

blasterman

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
1,730
Reaction score
2,018
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I use Seachem Phosphorus by the bottle in my heavy SPS 20L. Works amazing for that purpose. I have a lot of montipora and they suck down phosphate like nobody's business. I've literally thought about dosing it. Feeding more just spikes nitrate, and nitrate is where I want it.

While I don't like 0 phosphate readings if everything is healthy and growing there's a strong possibility that phosphate is just being consumed as fast as you add it with foods, etc. Salt mixes also have a habit of having trace phosphate.

The coral to watch is the birdsnest. They really have issues with low phosphate. If the birdsnest is healthy, and more importantly has growth nodes on it (when tanks lights are off look at it with a flashlight) phosphate isn't an issue. If you don't see growth nodes on it but it's otherwise fluffy it's likely too low phosphate.
 
OP
OP
SiD

SiD

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
125
Reaction score
103
Location
Torrance, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I use Seachem Phosphorus by the bottle in my heavy SPS 20L. Works amazing for that purpose. I have a lot of montipora and they suck down phosphate like nobody's business. I've literally thought about dosing it. Feeding more just spikes nitrate, and nitrate is where I want it.

While I don't like 0 phosphate readings if everything is healthy and growing there's a strong possibility that phosphate is just being consumed as fast as you add it with foods, etc. Salt mixes also have a habit of having trace phosphate.

The coral to watch is the birdsnest. They really have issues with low phosphate. If the birdsnest is healthy, and more importantly has growth nodes on it (when tanks lights are off look at it with a flashlight) phosphate isn't an issue. If you don't see growth nodes on it but it's otherwise fluffy it's likely too low phosphate.
I can see white tips on my bird nest even with lights on.
 

Nano sapiens

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
2,493
Reaction score
3,677
Location
East Bay, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The coral to watch is the birdsnest. They really have issues with low phosphate. If the birdsnest is healthy, and more importantly has growth nodes on it (when tanks lights are off look at it with a flashlight) phosphate isn't an issue. If you don't see growth nodes on it but it's otherwise fluffy it's likely too low phosphate.

Bingo! I've made this connection, too, regarding phosphate (my system also has typical 'undetectable' levels of PO4). Another one I watch closely is my Sunset Montipora as it will also wash out and can even loose tissue when PO4 is too low.

Even amongst 'undectable' PO4 levels there is 'low but ok' and then there is 'whoa, too low!' Impossible to differentiate with a test kit, so the best gauge is the color/heath/growth of certain corals as Blasterman alluded to.
 

Nano sapiens

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
2,493
Reaction score
3,677
Location
East Bay, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I can see white tips on my bird nest even with lights on.

Then up this point at least you have had enough PO4 in the system for the BN to grow, so all is well!

For context, my mixed reef has run for nearly all it's 13 yr. life at 'Undetectable' PO4 (Salifert test kit). In a very mature system like mine (no dinos, no algae issues, healthy corals), low PO4 is typically not an issue as long as it doesn't completely bottom out. In your still rather young 10 month old system, keeping an average PO4 of around 0.03-0.05 or thereabouts gives you a bit of an 'insurance policy' and should be just about right to maintain a healthy system in most cases.
 
OP
OP
SiD

SiD

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
125
Reaction score
103
Location
Torrance, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Pic of the BN the day I put it in the tank.

20210602_130215.jpg

Pic with lights off today.
20210623_194152.jpg

Kindly advice if my BN is bleaching out. What should I do?

Thanks
Sid
 

Nano sapiens

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
2,493
Reaction score
3,677
Location
East Bay, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hmm, so that white at the tips (and other areas) is tissue recession, not growth. Polyps are retracted, too, so the coral is certainly not happy.

Here's where the balancing act of reef keeping comes in. For right now to expedite the recovery of the BN, you can keep all the filtration equipment as is and dose PO4 (if your NO3 had been low, you could have just fed more to raise PO4 and NO3). In the near future, you might want to evaluate whether you need such an aggressive filtration system as it is contributing to the low PO4 situation.

Whatever you choose to do, what matters most is that the coral regains health quickly as these high metabolism SPS can go down hill in a hurry if nutrient levels are too low.
 
OP
OP
SiD

SiD

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
125
Reaction score
103
Location
Torrance, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hmm, so that white at the tips (and other areas) is tissue recession, not growth. Polyps are retracted, too, so the coral is certainly not happy.

Here's where the balancing act of reef keeping comes in. For right now to expedite the recovery of the BN, you can keep all the filtration equipment as is and dose PO4 (if your NO3 had been low, you could have just fed more to raise PO4 and NO3). In the near future, you might want to evaluate whether you need such an aggressive filtration system as it is contributing to the low PO4 situation.

Whatever you choose to do, what matters most is that the coral regains health quickly as these high metabolism SPS can go down hill in a hurry if nutrient levels are too low.
Should I also lower the temperature to 26 ° c from 27° c ? Will it help ? My LFS suggested this, don't know if it make sense.
 

Nano sapiens

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
2,493
Reaction score
3,677
Location
East Bay, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Should I also lower the temperature to 26 ° c from 27° c ? Will it help ? My LFS suggested this, don't know if it make sense.

Sure. The lower temperature will slow metabolism and increase oxygen in the water a bit, but both temps are within normal reef keeping range. My system runs very well at 26 C (78 F).
 
OP
OP
SiD

SiD

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
125
Reaction score
103
Location
Torrance, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Sure. The lower temperature will slow metabolism and increase oxygen in the water a bit, but both temps are within normal reef keeping range. My system runs very well at 26 C (78 F).
Should I also stop dosing AQ NP Pro and Pro Bio S for some time until I can dose some phosphate. Earliest I can get Seachem Flourish Phosphorus is 27 June 21, it is in transit now.
 

Nano sapiens

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
2,493
Reaction score
3,677
Location
East Bay, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Should I also stop dosing AQ NP Pro and Pro Bio S for some time until I can dose some phosphate. Earliest I can get Seachem Flourish Phosphorus is 27 June 21, it is in transit now.

I would start to reduce those products for now since they are designed to reduce PO4 and NO3. Just need to watch your NO3 levels carefully as they may rise.

In reef keeping, constant critical analysis and knowing what each piece of equipment/filtration is designed to do is essential. So while you wait for the Flourish, you could ask yourself what can I do in the meantime to increase PO4 in the system to help the BN before it expires?

What I see is that you have quite an aggressive filtration system and a relatively low bio load which is contributing to the low PO4 situation. Your skimmer and algae scrubbers both remove nutrients (technically your AS sequesters nutrients until the algae is removed from the system). You could either limit your skimmer running time (best to run it at night when photosynthesis is non existent to keep oxygen levels up) and/or remove one of the algae scrubbers. Best not to remove everything all at once, but try one thing at a time and monitor PO4 levels daily.

If you didn't have NO3 at the higher end, you could have just broadcast fed the system more to raise PO4. However, you can try sparingly target feeding the BN coral daily with a high PO4 content food, just watch that NO3 doesn't climb much higher.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
SiD

SiD

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
125
Reaction score
103
Location
Torrance, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I would start to reduce those products for now since they are designed to reduce PO4 and NO3. Just need to watch your NO3 levels carefully as they may rise.

In reef keeping, constant critical analysis and knowing what each piece of equipment/filtration is designed to do is essential. So while you wait for the Flourish, you could ask yourself what can I do in the meantime to increase PO4 in the system to help the BN before it expires?

What I see is that you have quite an aggressive filtration system and a relatively low bio load which is contributing to the low PO4 situation. Your skimmer and algae scrubbers both remove nutrients (technically your AS sequesters nutrients until the algae is removed from the system). You could either limit your skimmer running time (best to run it at night when photosynthesis is non existent to keep oxygen levels up) and/or remove one of the algae scrubbers. Best not to remove everything all at once, but try one thing at a time and monitor PO4 levels daily.

If you didn't have NO3 at the higher end, you could have just broadcast fed the system more to raise PO4. However, you can try sparingly target feeding the BN coral daily with a high PO4 content food, just watch that NO3 doesn't climb much higher.
Just tested Alkalinity , it came out as 8.6 with Salifert. Is this also contributing to STN?
 

Nano sapiens

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
2,493
Reaction score
3,677
Location
East Bay, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
OP
OP
SiD

SiD

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
125
Reaction score
103
Location
Torrance, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Stopped dosing AQ NP Pro and Pro Bio S for last 2 days. All other filtering equipment running as it is. No3 has come down to 20 and Po4 is still at .03. Aquaforest has almost killed my BN , I will never use its products again.
 

A worm with high fashion and practical utility: Have you ever kept feather dusters in your reef aquarium?

  • I currently have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 73 37.6%
  • Not currently, but I have had feather dusters in my tank in the past.

    Votes: 66 34.0%
  • I have not had feather dusters, but I hope to in the future.

    Votes: 25 12.9%
  • I have no plans to have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 28 14.4%
  • Other.

    Votes: 2 1.0%
Back
Top