high Phosphate

[airvicconcre]

hello all.
my aquarium is 5 months old FOWLR at the moment. i checked my phosphate 3 days ago and it was .445 ppm. two days ago my readings came as .613ppm done by Hanna ULR so i ran gfo in a reactor. yesterday my phosphate dropped to .236ppm. i did a 10% water change today, my question is should i do my Phosphate testing now or should i wait as i just changed water? thanking you all in advanvce.

 

[HankstankXXL750 Verified Sponsor]

If your new water is free of phosphate it should have reduced by 10%. So I would wait and see where your reading is later. I test once a week. Are you having problems with algae? Otherwise I don’t think phosphates in a FOWLR tank are harmful for fish. My FOWLR runs over the max on Hanna ULR. But I am dosing Lanthium Chloride to get down because of the turf algae I’m fighting.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If your new water is free of phosphate it should have reduced by 10%. So I would wait and see where your reading is later. I test once a week. Are you having problems with algae? Otherwise I don’t think phosphates in a FOWLR tank are harmful for fish. My FOWLR runs over the max on Hanna ULR. But I am dosing Lanthium Chloride to get down because of the turf algae I’m fighting.

Not necessarily true for phosphate. While a 10% drop is expected for nitrate during a 10% water change, phosphate may hardly drop at all (after equilibration of the new water) because so much phosphate can be bound to rock and sand surfaces, and any time you try to lower it, some comes off of those surfaces and sets up a new equilibrium between rock surfaces and bulk water.

FWIW, the reverse happens when you try to raise phosphate, taking much more than expected.

 

[HankstankXXL750 Verified Sponsor]

Not necessarily true for phosphate. While a 10% drop is expected for nitrate during a 10% water change, phosphate may hardly drop at all (after equilibration of the new water) because so much phosphate can be bound to rock and sand surfaces, and any time you try to lower it, some comes off of those surfaces and sets up a new equilibrium between rock surfaces and bulk water.

FWIW, the reverse happens when you try to raise phosphate, taking much more than expected.

Yes I guess that is true. Probably why it took me so long to get mine down.

 

[airvicconcre]

If your new water is free of phosphate it should have reduced by 10%. So I would wait and see where your reading is later. I test once a week. Are you having problems with algae? Otherwise I don’t think phosphates in a FOWLR tank are harmful for fish. My FOWLR runs over the max on Hanna ULR. But I am dosing Lanthium Chloride to get down because of the turf algae I’m fighting.

its a FOWLR as of now however i want to learn how to control it. can you help me with the dosing of lanthium chloride?
my phosphate on sunday was 77ppb and i just checked 20 hours after a water change right now, its showing 19ppb 0.058 after running gfo.

 

[airvicconcre]

Not necessarily true for phosphate. While a 10% drop is expected for nitrate during a 10% water change, phosphate may hardly drop at all (after equilibration of the new water) because so much phosphate can be bound to rock and sand surfaces, and any time you try to lower it, some comes off of those surfaces and sets up a new equilibrium between rock surfaces and bulk water.

FWIW, the reverse happens when you try to raise phosphate, taking much more than expected.

you are right. my nitrate before my 10% water change was 31 and now when i checked it dropped to 27.3. this chemistry is new to me and im excited. thank you for your help. i run a lot of blue light however i still have some green algae on the art reef rocks. i dose microbacter cwm 2 times a week. anything else i should do. i want to get my nitrates even lower, any help with that?

 

[HankstankXXL750 Verified Sponsor]

its a FOWLR as of now however i want to learn how to control it. can you help me with the dosing of lanthium chloride?
my phosphate on sunday was 77ppb and i just checked 20 hours after a water change right now, its showing 19ppb 0.058 after running gfo.

For a FOWLR tank I don’t think your phosphates are really an issue unless you are fighting algae. As far as dosing lanthium chloride, I purchased Brightwell phophate-E. I started with 1/4 the recommended dosage as to not make radical changes, then brought it up by 1/4 each week.
In my 160g predator tank I have super high nutrients because I have heavy messy eaters. The main problem for me has been algae as I have two puffers and a shark, and therefore can’t have snails.

I dose automatically during the day with an Apex Dos. Any auto doser will work, or you can just add it straight to your sump. Just repeat at the same time everyday until your Phosphates come down the slowly reduce until number stay stable.

 

[HankstankXXL750 Verified Sponsor]

What kind of fish do you have, and what size tank. I would be very happy with 30 nitrate and .3 phophate in my FOWLR tank.

Do you have a sump? Refugium? Skimmer?

 

[airvicconcre]

For a FOWLR tank I don’t think your phosphates are really an issue unless you are fighting algae. As far as dosing lanthium chloride, I purchased Brightwell phophate-E. I started with 1/4 the recommended dosage as to not make radical changes, then brought it up by 1/4 each week.
In my 160g predator tank I have super high nutrients because I have heavy messy eaters. The main problem for me has been algae as I have two puffers and a shark, and therefore can’t have snails.

I dose automatically during the day with an Apex Dos. Any auto doser will work, or you can just add it straight to your sump. Just repeat at the same time everyday until your Phosphates come down the slowly reduce until number stay stable.

hello. Brightwell Phosphate-e is easily available where i am so i can order that. it is a FOWLR for now however that will change very soon hence i want to lower my nutreints.
my DT is 566litres and my sump is around 200litres
skimmer- CoveOne I-200 internal
Algae reactor- chaeto isnt growing though, i tried and am still trying.
no refugium
a 55w UV
Roller filter bubble magus
and a reactor which ran GFO
5 Chromis
1 Regal tang
1 juve shoulder tang
1 tomini tang
1 sailfin juvenile
1 dr wrasse
1 long nose hawkfish
1 golden head and a watchman goby
1 lawnmover blenny
1 golden stripe maroon clown
20 turbo snails
3 sand sifting stars
1 humu humu in the sump

i have another system coming up which will be 750 litres including sump predator tank.

 

[HankstankXXL750 Verified Sponsor]

Nice setups. GFO is supposed to battle phosphates, but I chose dosing as I felt I would have better control and didn’t want to zero out my nutrients. Don’t know why your cheato reactor won’t grow. I couldn’t get it to grow enough in refugium so I added turf scrubber. Still not enough export for tank and inhabitants. So I started dosing homemade NOPOX 500 ml vinegar, 375ml vodka, 125ml RODI and Phosphate-E

 

[airvicconcre]

Nice setups. GFO is supposed to battle phosphates, but I chose dosing as I felt I would have better control and didn’t want to zero out my nutrients. Don’t know why your cheato reactor won’t grow. I couldn’t get it to grow enough in refugium so I added turf scrubber. Still not enough export for tank and inhabitants. So I started dosing homemade NOPOX 500 ml vinegar, 375ml vodka, 125ml RODI and Phosphate-E

ive tried to make a diy NOPOX 510ml vinegar and 490 ml vodka. can you help me dosing details. at the moment i have the original red sea nopox which im dosing 6ml twice during the day with a 12 hour gap.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

ive tried to make a diy NOPOX 510ml vinegar and 490 ml vodka. can you help me dosing details. at the moment i have the original red sea nopox which im dosing 6ml twice during the day with a 12 hour gap.

This is the rough recipe:

"Mix one part vinegar to one half part vodka and one half part water. If you want to get even closer, add a little more vodka and a little less water."

FWIW, it ignores the small amounts of methanol and isopropanol that are in it, which, IMO, are probably only there only to make the ethanol cheaper by being a nondrinkable and thus nontaxed form.

 

[HankstankXXL750 Verified Sponsor]

I took this recipe off R2R and it seems good for me. 500ml vinegar, 375ml vodka, 125ml RODI water. I followed Red Sea instructions for over 10 ppm nitrates of 3ml NOPOX per 25 gallons 94.6 liters of actual tank water. Your around 200 gallons minus rock work and other items displacing water.

I started a 1/3 of the recommended dose so 1ml/94.6l then tested for nitrates weekly and increased until my numbers stabilized. Now that they are dropping I am slowly reducing the dosage again checking weekly. I will be checking more often with now as I don’t want to get to zero.

This didn’t reduce my Phosphates so I dose Phosphate-E as well. I started again at a potion of the recommended dose through an auto dosing pump. I dose from noon to 9PM as that is my light cycle so that the tanks are lit in the evening when we are around.

Try to determine if you don’t know exactly how much water volume you have. Here is link to Red Sea NOPOX instructions.

https://www.redseafish.com/wp-conte...ae-Supplements-_GB-DE-FR-NL-SP-_2018A-44p.pdf

 

[airvicconcre]

This is the rough recipe:

"Mix one part vinegar to one half part vodka and one half part water. If you want to get even closer, add a little more vodka and a little less water."

FWIW, it ignores the small amounts of methanol and isopropanol that are in it, which, IMO, are probably only there only to make the ethanol cheaper by being a nondrinkable and thus nontaxed form.

Hello. If I had to add isopropanol and methanol as it is easily available where I am how much should be that content? Thank you for your reply.

 

[blackstallion]

This is the rough recipe:

"Mix one part vinegar to one half part vodka and one half part water. If you want to get even closer, add a little more vodka and a little less water."

FWIW, it ignores the small amounts of methanol and isopropanol that are in it, which, IMO, are probably only there only to make the ethanol cheaper by being a nondrinkable and thus nontaxed form.

How affective is this formula in reducing PO4? And how quickly can it work?

I have high ~0.6ppm PO4.

Looking at my alternatives, I'm not crazy about using any lanthanum chloride products as I read the precipitation can be toxic to Tangs.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How affective is this formula in reducing PO4? And how quickly can it work?

I have high ~0.6ppm PO4.

Looking at my alternatives, I'm not crazy about using any lanthanum chloride products as I read the precipitation can be toxic to Tangs.

Organic carbon dosing is not especially effective at reducing phosphate for several different reasons, and if you need phosphate lowered substantially, a different method will be needed.

 

[HankstankXXL750 Verified Sponsor]

How affective is this formula in reducing PO4? And how quickly can it work?

I have high ~0.6ppm PO4.

Looking at my alternatives, I'm not crazy about using any lanthanum chloride products as I read the precipitation can be toxic to Tangs.

I dose lanthanum chloride in two separate reefs one with 5 tangs 210g and one with 4 tangs 110g I dose before the skimmer and have been for months. All of my tangs are fine. I am not saying it is safe just that
A. I didn’t know it could be toxic to tangs when I started.
B. Where I am dosing my allow the skimmer to remove the precipitation
And
C. I maybe got lucky.

You can also lower it with SeaChem PhosGuard. I didn’t find it to work fast enough for me, but I believe I really had high phosphates leaching from the rock I was using.

 

[PeterEde]

Hi Randy
To flog a dead horse
I have just taken up distilling
I have produced 2 liters of 60% ethanol. A first time distiller.
Am I right to dilute down to 40% and follow the above DIY NOPOX?
1 part ethanol
1 part 5% acetic acid vinegar
1 part RODI

This will be the cheapest I NOPOX I can manage. Next still run will double distill to higher proof but for this requirement probably not necessary

Currently dosing 37% vodka at $60 per liter.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi Randy
To flog a dead horse
I have just taken up distilling
I have produced 2 liters of 60% ethanol. A first time distiller.
Am I right to dilute down to 40% and follow the above DIY NOPOX?
1 part ethanol
1 part 5% acetic acid vinegar
1 part RODI

This will be the cheapest I NOPOX I can manage. Next still run will double distill to higher proof but for this requirement probably not necessary

Currently dosing 37% vodka at $60 per liter.

It’s certainly fine to use your own distilled ethanol instead of vodka.

I don’t think there’s much consistent evidence whether vinegar, vodka, or a mix of those or full blown NOPOX are best. I found vinegar better than vodka in my tank (less cyano), but not everyone finds that.

 

[PeterEde]

Thanks Randy.
I tried nopox for a few years did nothing for me. Swapped to 5% acetic vinegar. Didnt seem to do much.
Since using 20ml 37% vodka no3 now below 20ppm.
I struggled with no3 usually around 60ppm. Even only feeding once a day in 425xl tank.