High phosphates in newly cycled tank

[Deej1534]

I don’t usually check phosphate in new tank but I also haven’t started a new one in a bit. I just checked a tank which I started a week ago. I was able to do a rush cycle using a few cups of saltwater from my 3-4 yr established 210 and live rock from the 210. I added live stock two days ago and just figured I would run the parameter. See below

Calc: 400 ppm
Phosphate: .86 ppm
Alk: 9 kph
Nitrate: below 2 ppm
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: .8 (was 0.0 up to fish being added.)

I did see a light spike in ammonia about 48 hrs in and then it balanced and I added the live stock. When it comes to phosphates being high is this normal for a new tank?

 

[KrisReef]

Established live Rock from the 210, were the phosphates elevated in it also?

 

[Deej1534]

Established live Rock from the 210, were the phosphates elevated in it also?

The phosphates in the 210 are .15

 

[Jekyl]

Any new rock or sand added?

 

[Deej1534]

Any new rock or sand added?

I added some live rock from the 210 . A few cups of water from the 210. Used the aragalive sand for my sand bed and then a handful of new rock which had been bleached and soaked in muriatic acid. So nothing was left on the tank

 

[crazyfishmom]

I don’t usually check phosphate in new tank but I also haven’t started a new one in a bit. I just checked a tank which I started a week ago. I was able to do a rush cycle using a few cups of saltwater from my 3-4 yr established 210 and live rock from the 210. I added live stock two days ago and just figured I would run the parameter. See below

Calc: 400 ppm
Phosphate: .86 ppm
Alk: 9 kph
Nitrate: below 2 ppm
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: .8 (was 0.0 up to fish being added.)

I did see a light spike in ammonia about 48 hrs in and then it balanced and I added the live stock. When it comes to phosphates being high is this normal for a new tank?

This is really common. The phosphate in the rocks is leaching out and you’ll see levels fluctuate up and down over the next few weeks. I would just let it sit and wait. The new rocks will start to uptake it and you’ll reach an equilibrium. This just happened to me in my new bare bottom tank that is Marco rock with bio blocks and rock from my 210 that I placed in the sump (about 20 lb of rock my 210 went into the sump of the 115 gallon system). Took about 2 weeks for it all to balance out but at one point my phosphate in the 115 was 0.7. It’s down to 0.08-0.14 on its own. No intervention.

 

[Deej1534]

This is really common. The phosphate in the rocks is leaching out and you’ll see levels fluctuate up and down over the next few weeks. I would just let it sit and wait. The new rocks will start to uptake it and you’ll reach an equilibrium. This just happened to me in my new bare bottom tank that is Marco rock with bio blocks and rock from my 210 that I placed in the sump (about 20 lb of rock my 210 went into the sump of the 115 gallon system). Took about 2 weeks for it all to balance out but at one point my phosphate in the 115 was 0.7. It’s down to 0.08-0.14 on its own. No intervention.

I kinda remembered it being like this before so I was just kinda thinking let it go. I mean the ugly phase is gonna happen no matter what! As nice as it would be to skip lol it’s part of it

 

[Lavey29]

I don’t usually check phosphate in new tank but I also haven’t started a new one in a bit. I just checked a tank which I started a week ago. I was able to do a rush cycle using a few cups of saltwater from my 3-4 yr established 210 and live rock from the 210. I added live stock two days ago and just figured I would run the parameter. See below

Calc: 400 ppm
Phosphate: .86 ppm
Alk: 9 kph
Nitrate: below 2 ppm
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: .8 (was 0.0 up to fish being added.)

I did see a light spike in ammonia about 48 hrs in and then it balanced and I added the live stock. When it comes to phosphates being high is this normal for a new tank?

Cups of water? This does nothing to aid the cycle. Established rock helps but you still incur a mini cycle moving fish in to quickly. Phosphate level is irrelevant because you will still have a period of instability with the new system even though it will be shorter in time versus starting with dead rock.

 

[Deej1534]

I don’t completely agree with that as the water in the 210 is established and has bacteria running through it along with rock which maintains the systems. I have always used a gallon of water rom older tanks if they are established and have no problems. The live rock has definitely been helping the tank and I moved a bit more over last night when I was fixing something in the 210

 

[Lavey29]

I don’t completely agree with that as the water in the 210 is established and has bacteria running through it along with rock which maintains the systems. I have always used a gallon of water rom older tanks if they are established and have no problems. The live rock has definitely been helping the tank and I moved a bit more over last night when I was fixing something in the 210

If there was sufficient nitrifying bacteria with existing rock and water then you wouldn't see that ammonia spike. The water has some useful bacteria in it but not the type useful for cycling purposes otherwise we would just buy some old tank water from the LFS to cycle a tank instead of the other products offered right? If you do 20% weekly water changes are you removing 20% of your bacteria and replacing it with new salt water that has no bacteria useful for your tank? Here is a internet clip:

One key thing to remember about the bacteria that break down waste products in aquariums, the vast majority of them will adhere to surfaces somewhere in the tank, they will not be free-floating. Therefore, doing water changes should not affect the biological filtration in an established aquarium when performed properly

 

[Deej1534]

If there was sufficient nitrifying bacteria with existing rock and water then you wouldn't see that ammonia spike. The water has some useful bacteria in it but not the type useful for cycling purposes otherwise we would just buy some old tank water from the LFS to cycle a tank instead of the other products offered right? If you do 20% weekly water changes are you removing 20% of your bacteria and replacing it with new salt water that has no bacteria useful for your tank? Here is a internet clip:

One key thing to remember about the bacteria that break down waste products in aquariums, the vast majority of them will adhere to surfaces somewhere in the tank, they will not be free-floating. Therefore, doing water changes should not affect the biological filtration in an established aquarium when performed properly

Just gonna be honest here. This post was about phosphates and you’re focusing on a very small part of the conversation as a whole. I get what your saying that yes most of the bacteria is not free floating but when the tank is this new unless I used all live rock there would never be enough beneficial bacteria to cycle the tank without any rise in ammonia. Which I have done before and not seen any ammonia. lol at this point I have already done it too so this is a little bit of a retrospective comment. Also I don’t any harm in it so even if 99% was on the rock then it wouldnt matter to me if 1% was in the water. The nitrates are part of what I wanted in the new tank to push the cycle through. Which whether it was the 99% the rock and 1% the water. It did exactly what I wanted it to. The rise in ammonia I am seeing is from adding about 15 fish to the tank at once after the initial cycle which I expected and was prepared for with a water change. My question was whether it was typical to see somewhat high phosphates in a new tank even after adding live sand, live rock, etc…

 

[BiggestE22]

I don’t completely agree with that as the water in the 210 is established and has bacteria running through it along with rock which maintains the systems. I have always used a gallon of water rom older tanks if they are established and have no problems. The live rock has definitely been helping the tank and I moved a bit more over last night when I was fixing something in the 210

Never heard that either. Most of the beneficial bacteria is not free floating. It’s on the sand and rock or in it.

 

[Lavey29]

Just gonna be honest here. This post was about phosphates and you’re focusing on a very small part of the conversation as a whole. I get what your saying that yes most of the bacteria is not free floating but when the tank is this new unless I used all live rock there would never be enough beneficial bacteria to cycle the tank without any rise in ammonia. Which I have done before and not seen any ammonia. lol at this point I have already done it too so this is a little bit of a retrospective comment. Also I don’t any harm in it so even if 99% was on the rock then it wouldnt matter to me if 1% was in the water. The nitrates are part of what I wanted in the new tank to push the cycle through. Which whether it was the 99% the rock and 1% the water. It did exactly what I wanted it to. The rise in ammonia I am seeing is from adding about 15 fish to the tank at once after the initial cycle which I expected and was prepared for with a water change. My question was whether it was typical to see somewhat high phosphates in a new tank even after adding live sand, live rock, etc…

Yes and I responded to your phosphate question in my first post in case you missed it. The tank is unstable even with existing rock and water so you will have fluctuations in parameters. .8 phosphate is elevated but it's not going to harm anything as your tank re establishes. 15 fish and not enough bacteria mean numbers climb like phosphate. Do you have sufficient export methods in place?

 

[Deej1534]

Yes and I responded to your phosphate question in my first post in case you missed it. The tank is unstable even with existing rock and water so you will have fluctuations in parameters. .8 phosphate is elevated but it's not going to harm anything as your tank re establishes. 15 fish and not enough bacteria mean numbers climb like phosphate. Do you have sufficient export methods in place?

Currently I have the skimmer running and a 7” filter sock. I am wondering if I should cut down to switching the socks out every 2 days in the beginning to help keep the nitrates down but really I am not seeing a ton of nitrates which is kinda odd with such high phosphate but kinda like we said it’s a new tank and unstable. I didn’t want to run gfo or anything yet I thought that may be a bit overkill for now when the tank should stabilize over the next few weeks.

 

[Lavey29]

Currently I have the skimmer running and a 7” filter sock. I am wondering if I should cut down to switching the socks out every 2 days in the beginning to help keep the nitrates down but really I am not seeing a ton of nitrates which is kinda odd with such high phosphate but kinda like we said it’s a new tank and unstable. I didn’t want to run gfo or anything yet I thought that may be a bit overkill for now when the tank should stabilize over the next few weeks.

If your nitrates rise it will help stabilize and lower phosphates. I would mainly just watch ammonia the first week or two but you have a large system so should be fine.