High phosphates

[allof fish]

So my phosphates have been pretty high within last couple months and I didn’t find out until yesterday. I assume this proves why some of my torches have been retracted last few months. I was using a salifert test kit which clearly wasn’t accurate enough. The Hanna checker had it at .36 so pretty high. I started with a phosguard bag to help lower them. My nitrates are pretty low. Usually around 10 but last test was around 2. I only have 3 fish and 5 more coming on Friday so hopefully should boost nitrates and keep them more in the range of 10 consistently. What’s best way to lower phosphates? Stick with phosgaurd and see how low it drops? Started feeing less to help. Starting to add acros so want to keep it around .05-.10 ish. Thanks for the recommendations

 

[Amstar]

are you going full recommended dose in the bag? I would start with half the recommended dosage and allow the phosphates to come down slower then "stripping" them to fast -

others may say differently -- but that has worked for me

 

[UMALUM]

Phosphate of .3+ isn't the cause of your euphyllia retraction so you might wanna do some digging. For me the most reliable and easiest way to manage phosphate has been lanthanum "elimi phos rapid". I would think you can safely hit your goal in a couple weeks and trash the phosguard.

 

[VintageReefer]

Phosphate of .3+ isn't the cause of your euphyllia retraction so you might wanna do some digging. For me the most reliable and easiest way to manage phosphate has been lanthanum "elimi phos rapid". I would think you can safely hit your goal in a couple weeks and trash the phosguard.

Agree. Your phosphate isn’t the source of your torch problem. They love phosphates. I keep the tank .30 - .40. I’ve been as high as 1.03. The torches don’t even stress at all. You have something else going on

 

[slingfox]

To get better advice you should provide more data. Specifically: Size and age of tank, what you feed and how often, what you use for nutrient export, what you dose, was your rockscape live or dry rock, what clean up crew you have, and full tank photos.

0.36 phosphate and 2 nitrate is not that big of a deal. You could have 1.0 phosphates and the torches would not care.

 

[UMALUM]

More likely the 2 nitrate is hitting zero from time to time throughout the day if not sitting there.

 

[allof fish]

So nitrate normally sit around 10 and were low because of a recent water change. I’ll list all details of tank. 90 gallons, 6 months old. Started with dry rock. Water changes every 2 week. Run filter socks and skimmer. Dose alk and calcium. Feed twice a day manly mysis and nori. Clean up crew involves many blue/red leg crab, nassarius snails, a conch and Asteria/ turbo snails. Thing is torch were good when I first got them. But now they are not very good but 1 is doing well. Hammers are also doing very well along with gonis. I put the pre bagged version of phosgaurd in sump. Treats 60 gallons. I’ll list pics below some from when torches were new to now. Torch at top is one doing very well. Had for 2 months and already split once. Tentacles are out much more than others.

 

[allof fish]

These are some pics of other euphyllia and they look great.

 

[allof fish]

Agree. Your phosphate isn’t the source of your torch problem. They love phosphates. I keep the tank .30 - .40. I’ve been as high as 1.03. The torches don’t even stress at all. You have something else going on

I’ve also check for flatworms and have dipped multiple times in last few months. 1 times there were a few worms but in every dip since nothing. Ive talked with local lfs coral store and research and cannot figure anything out. It’s weird but it’s just 2 or 3 torches. 1 is happy and healthy and all other lps coral is doing great

 

[slingfox]

Great details. That helps others figure out how to assess the situation. Your tank is still very new. It’s very common for tanks started with dry rock to go through major nutrient fluctuations during the first two years as the tank tries to find an equilibrium. Specifically, it is very common to have both low and elevated phosphates during the first year as the rocks absorb and release phosphate. I don’t believe phosphates are your issue. Many torches, particularly those sold by LFS, are wide caught or marinecultured and are susceptible to pests and disease. Sometimes those torches just randomly degrade and die as they try to acclimate to captive tank life. Sometimes there is nothing you do that can save them.

Sometimes people try various dips. The KFC dip is the most robust and involved (ie, when I do the KFC dip I have to put the Target corals into a. Separate tank with heat and circulation for 12 hours). One product worth trying is the CIE (https://jokercorals.com/products/coral-infection-elimination). There is a long thread on the product on this board. I have never tried it myself but I just bought a container and plan to divide the contents into single use portions, put those portions into small test tube containers, and freeze them for future use.

If you plan to have a large euphillia collection you need to have a strategy on how to deal with sudden declines in a coral. I previously relied mostly on KFC but I am going to try the CIE product above which seems a lot less involved and much cheaper per dose.

 

[BryanM]

Unless you're wanting an ULNS specifically 5-50 nitrates and .1-3 phos is perfectly acceptable for most of us around here lately.

 

[allof fish]

I would like nitrates between 10-15 and phosphate .1 or so. But if I’m hearing that .36 isn’t that bad just nitrates might be too low maybe I just got some bad pieces. All the torches have come from a local coral store and they aquaculture pretty much everything as I know. Just weird since as you can see in one of the early pics when I first got them they looked great but now don’t it’s so weird. And while 1 torch and all other euphyllia looks great so I really don’t know maybe just some bad torches idk. Is there anything else I can do or it could be. I want them to look better but if there not going to I’m gonna need space for better pieces so maybe try to trade them out, maybe just unlucky with them. Any other suggestions? Thanks for help

 

[BryanM]

I would like nitrates between 10-15 and phosphate .1 or so. But if I’m hearing that .36 isn’t that bad just nitrates might be too low maybe I just got some bad pieces. All the torches have come from a local coral store and they aquaculture pretty much everything as I know. Just weird since as you can see in one of the early pics when I first got them they looked great but now don’t it’s so weird. And while 1 torch and all other euphyllia looks great so I really don’t know maybe just some bad torches idk. Is there anything else I can do or it could be. I want them to look better but if there not going to I’m gonna need space for better pieces so maybe try to trade them out, maybe just unlucky with them. Any other suggestions? Thanks for help

Well, I think one universal truth in our slices of ocean at home is that things are quite unpredictable.

We try, we try HARD. But I think what I'm hearing is somewhat of my journey. Over the last 6 months I've had some losses due to one fish, that I can easily wrap my head around.

BUt I got a 6+ head torch that looked awesome for 6 weeks, and then got BJD. and it got it bad. Toss.

I had a 5 head HG torch for at least 6 months. It also got BJD, overnight, and was just in all the other torches, and I had to toss. It was no worth the risk to so much other livestock.

I've had a frogspawn for well over a year, and it just recently started to deflate and look sad. It's holding steady now, but its not improving.

I could go on, I have a fair amount of livestock. But I also have two elegances that are supposedly hard to keep that are absolutely thriving and growing. Both of my toadstools are growing and massive. A new to me cotten candy torch has grown almost double in just two months!

In the end, I truly do believe that nitrate and phosphate numbers are much wider than previously thought (The possible exception is SPS tanks that I **tend** to believe want cleaner water, but I don't know because that's not what I'm working with).

So nitrates 5-50, Phos .06-.3, both could even go up some, and quarterly ICP tests to very nothing's out of whack with trace elements, and you're in a pretty dang good spot.

Sometimes Shyte happens.

 

[allof fish]

So if I’m really not doing much wrong in the sense that nitrates and phosphates aren’t all over the place they could just be bad pieces and not healthy anymore is what I’m hearing. It is weird since all my other hammers and even the 1 torch look great. Should I just wait it out maybe another month and if not better rehome and replace or keep trying with them. With how they look now my tank just won’t be where I want it be looks wise. Thanks for the input I was thinking about an icp test next few months maybe that can help or their just bad pieces

 

[CHSUB]

Yes, so 2 ppm no3 is about 20,000% higher than the environment torch corals come from, this is not an exaggeration but the actual value. The idea of too low no3 causing the “issue” is less likely than aliens secretly blasting your corals from space with invisible lasers.

 

[BryanM]

So if I’m really not doing much wrong in the sense that nitrates and phosphates aren’t all over the place they could just be bad pieces and not healthy anymore is what I’m hearing. It is weird since all my other hammers and even the 1 torch look great. Should I just wait it out maybe another month and if not better rehome and replace or keep trying with them. With how they look now my tank just won’t be where I want it be looks wise. Thanks for the input I was thinking about an icp test next few months maybe that can help or their just bad pieces

If you're really worried at this point its time for a close inspection of one of them for pests, possibly a dip.

Clearer pics under white lights might also help, these are dark, but I don't really see too much wrong.

Do you spot feed them 1-2x a week? That also seems to help mine, they get mysis+benereef.

 

[Dom]

So my phosphates have been pretty high within last couple months and I didn’t find out until yesterday. I assume this proves why some of my torches have been retracted last few months. I was using a salifert test kit which clearly wasn’t accurate enough. The Hanna checker had it at .36 so pretty high. I started with a phosguard bag to help lower them. My nitrates are pretty low. Usually around 10 but last test was around 2. I only have 3 fish and 5 more coming on Friday so hopefully should boost nitrates and keep them more in the range of 10 consistently. What’s best way to lower phosphates? Stick with phosgaurd and see how low it drops? Started feeing less to help. Starting to add acros so want to keep it around .05-.10 ish. Thanks for the recommendations

I would suggest not adding anything at this time.

You mention that your torches have "retracted the last few months". So water chemistry already appears to be an issue in your tank.

Don't throw money away by adding corals to a tank that is struggling. Be patient, correct your chemistry and see that it stays stable before adding anything else.

 

[allof fish]

Yes, so 2 ppm no3 is about 20,000% higher than the environment torch corals come from, this is not an exaggeration but the actual value. The idea of too low no3 causing the “issue” is less likely than aliens secretly blasting your corals from space with invisible lasers.

I’m not worried about too low nitrates I actually want mine higher but the phosphates I’ve been told could come down

 

[allof fish]

If you're really worried at this point its time for a close inspection of one of them for pests, possibly a dip.

Clearer pics under white lights might also help, these are dark, but I don't really see too much wrong.

Do you spot feed them 1-2x a week? That also seems to help mine, they get mysis+benereef.

They have been dipped multiple times recently with nothing coming off of them. I feed reef roids around once a week and do spot feed them

 

[allof fish]

I would suggest not adding anything at this time.

You mention that your torches have "retracted the last few months". So water chemistry already appears to be an issue in your tank.

Don't throw money away by adding corals to a tank that is struggling. Be patient, correct your chemistry and see that it stays stable before adding anything else.

It’s been stable for sure just I would assume phosphates have been stable just higher. If everything didn’t look good i definitely would be worried and would correct it first but it’s literally just these few torches. Everything else is fine, hammers/frogspawn gonis, even sps looks good