HOBBY GRADE TEST KITS CAN OUTPERFORM ICP MEASUREMENTS…REALLY??

[Roberto Denadai]

Nice article. I never believed in ICP and I will never use it. And the why is very simple, because I don´t need it and the test itself is not reliable in my opinion.

As a physicist I know that is just impossible to track and keep stable trace elements inside a tank, too many variables can give false and incorrect results.

Besides it is very funny to see people showing their tanks with ICP and dosing all elements. Some friends and I had better tanks 20 years ago just testing alk weekly

Cheers

 

[Pod_01]

Some friends and I had better tanks 20 years ago just testing alk weekly

Would you have some pictures from 20 years ago?
I seen this stated all the time but I have yet to see pictures that shows tanks full of glowing SPS from 20 years ago….

Something like this, not mine:

But stunning….

 

[Roberto Denadai]

Here , 2x 400W MH XM 10k, no blue, no filter

 

[Roberto Denadai]

Here is my Friend Carlos. 11 years ago, not too bad

 

[Roberto Denadai]

My tank again. If I Had an iPhone and filter 20 years ago these corals would glow like crazy

 

[Roberto Denadai]

This is my last tank ( 2022 ) See ? I don´t need ICP.

 

[Pod_01]

My tank again. If I Had an iPhone and filter 20 years ago these corals would glow like crazy

What method did you use 20 years ago? I suspect it is not just Alk addition. I am just curious???
Thank you for sharing.

Also your last tank looks nice and clean and no fish??? Is that right?

As for ICP it helped me turn my mediocre reef tank into something I can look at.

Today picture, no filter.

For experienced reefer ICP might not be that useful.

 

[Roberto Denadai]

What method did you use 20 years ago? I suspect it is not just Alk addition. I am just curious???
Thank you for sharing.

Good Flow, Metal Halides, Calcium reactor, water change, and fish food....that´s it

 

[mcgullen]

I talked to some friends who run ICP-OES for reasons unrelated to marine aquaria and they are puzzled as to how these companies can confidently report readings for iodine. Accordingly to them, the machine will give iodine readings but those numbers would be nonsense. Can someone in the know please help clarify this?

 

[Lasse]

Good Flow, Metal Halides, Calcium reactor, water change, and fish food....that´s it

And which type of flow pumps did you use 20 years ago (2003)?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Roberto Denadai]

And which type of flow pumps did you use 20 years ago (2003)?

Sincerely Lasse

Tunze and wave box

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I talked to some friends who run ICP-OES for reasons unrelated to marine aquaria and they are puzzled as to how these companies can confidently report readings for iodine. Accordingly to them, the machine will give iodine readings but those numbers would be nonsense. Can someone in the know please help clarify this?

Here are a couple of posts where in icp expert addresses that question:

ICP test - high iodine?

I usually perform an ICP test every 3 months on my aquariums. This time around both, my 210 gal and 65 gal RSM showing high levels of IODINE. I know that it is difficult to test for Iodine and I do have a Salifert kit and it is actually showing "0" - so not sure what to make of this or if...

www.reef2reef.com

Which ICP test ? ATI or Triton

In a study we (@taricha, @Rick Mathew ) are conducting of ICP vendors, ATI flunked the RODI test in which I spiked an RODI sample with a little Instant Ocean. ATI detected nothing while ICP-Analysis.com detected the elements correctly. As for the aquarium water test, both ATI and Triton do OK...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[jda]

I talked to some friends who run ICP-OES for reasons unrelated to marine aquaria and they are puzzled as to how these companies can confidently report readings for iodine. Accordingly to them, the machine will give iodine readings but those numbers would be nonsense. Can someone in the know please help clarify this?

Even though phosphorous and iodine share nearly the same wavelength, some companies probably guess, some will tell you (which is better) and some might use a titration test like you could have. We don't know because nearly none of them are transparent about their black box once you send water to them.

None of them will tell you what form the I was in, AFAIK.

 

[Thales]

I talked to some friends who run ICP-OES for reasons unrelated to marine aquaria and they are puzzled as to how these companies can confidently report readings for iodine. Accordingly to them, the machine will give iodine readings but those numbers would be nonsense. Can someone in the know please help clarify this?

This has been a concern since the beginning of ICP for the hobby. It is bigger than just iodine.

 

[Reefahholic]

Here is my Friend Carlos. 11 years ago, not too bad

Yeah, but you and Carlos are old school pro’s from Brazil correct? The average reefer will likely never come close to your success.

How how old is Carlos’s tank in the shot above?

 

[Reefahholic]

Good Flow, Metal Halides, Calcium reactor, water change, and fish food....that´s it

What was the volume of water changes?

 

[Reefahholic]

This is my last tank ( 2022 ) See ? I don´t need ICP.

What happened to this tank? It’s no longer running?

 

[jason2459]

Why is it when a great looking tank is displayed that doesn't use ICP it's because they are pros? Seems kind of a bad argument. They do normal maintenance. Nothing exotic or "pro" like. No secret sauce.

 

[Lasse]

I have been using ICP test since my start of my latest aquarium - back in 2016. Its one of the tools I have. I will show you two different events (even if they are in the same time) where these tests have been of a huge importance for my aquarium, The one is about a macro element and the other is related to a trace element that can turn into toxicity if it is to high. Last fall - I run into some problems with death of some of my favourite fishes. Of different reasons - I did not do any test during the fall of 2022. The one I took in early January this year shows som unwanted result. Potassium concentrations high away from my safety belt. It was 513 mg/L. I had to do something. The only way to manage this would be by using WC and with a salt containing as low K concentration butt possible. I contact Christoph at Oceamo and ask him if he know which salt that had the lowest amounts of potassium. I was lucky because they was just on their way to introduce the liquid corrector salt - Oceamo Corrector - where you could decide your own concentration of Ca. K and alkalinity with help of add or not add additives to the liquid salt. I did a calculating that result in a serie of WC - 40 L first day and after that a serie of 6 WC of 5 L/day. Their calculator show that this should bring down my K concentrations from 513 to around 390. Below you can find the actual graph.

The concentration dropped exactly as expected - indicating that at least a relative scale existed

However - I´m not found of that last measurement indicate a rising concentration again, hence I now and then use zero K in the Oceamo corrector I use in the salt addition I make to compensate for the water losses from my testing with my KH director. IMO - for fish - to high K-concentration can be very fatal.

The author of the first post in this thread claim that Saliferts potassium test done by 2 testers is as good as ICP testing

The results indicate that both methods would yield reasonably good measurement of potassium, each doing a good job of capturing the majority of the 60 ppm spike.

Lets look at the result from the potassium test

And then take a look at the compilation

I must quote Mark Twain in this case

There are three kinds of lies: lies, danged lies, and statistics

By the way - Salifert do not have the marine potassium test in their product catalog any longer

The other event there my ICP tests have been of major help is a suddenly appearance of elevated tin levels. Its in the same sample as the elevated potassium concentrations. Here, too, the level fell as expected. Note - its one month between the tests in January/February and the February test is around 10 days after last WC

In this case - as for all trace elements and many pollutants, there are no hobby alternatives that either can measure low levels or lower levels than toxic levels.

This thread is about if hobby grade test kits can outperform ICP measurements or not. But the basic red thread has been to lift up all concerns about ICP testings but not use the same type of critical glasses on the starting post or the documentation and manuals for the hobby grade methods.

The argue that "wee did not need any ICP twenty years ago in order to create beautiful colourful reefs" is IMO ridicules and just bla-bla. Its like I should claim that seat belts in cars is a idiotically made up by car manufacturers to make more money because I survive my first 7 years as a car driver - including a serve accident - without using safe belts.

ICP tests - right used - is a tool you can use. Exactly as seat belts is a layer of extra safety if an accident happens

Sincerely Lasse

​

 

[jason2459]

just bla-bla.

Oh I agree and applies to both sides. Showing a picture to make an argument against something else is a bit silly. I do enjoy the pictures though.