How Long is a Vendor Responsible?

[Reefer Matt]

Hey Reefers!
I was thinking about buying and selling livestock, and the timelines associated with them. So when you buy a coral, fish, or invertebrate, how long after you’ve received it should the seller be responsible for their condition?

 

[exnisstech]

TBH not knowing the conditions of the tank they will be going into and also the buyers skill level I would say live arrival and maybe extend it a little if a piece arrives looking bad to see if it recovers. There's an awful lot of whiny people who love to get online and complain these days whether it's justified or not. Such are the time we live in.

 

[StartingATank]

I would say 2-3 days is good

 

[MichaelReefer]

I would say thats difficult. I'm very good friends with a LFS owner and the problem is you dont know the persons tank quality, numbers, and tank mates. A lot of variables.

 

[Reefer Matt]

As a buyer, what timeframe makes it go from “they scammed me”, to “my bad”?

 

[KM Wrasse]

Hey Reefers!
I was thinking about buying and selling livestock, and the timelines associated with them. So when you buy a coral, fish, or invertebrate, how long after you’ve received it should the seller be responsible for their condition?

Arrive alive .. that’s it. I’m sure there are some messed up parameters out there! lol

 

[MichaelReefer]

Arrive alive .. that’s it. I’m sure there are some messed up parameters out there! lol

I've overheard people trying to buy tangs and put them in one week old tanks. They argue with my friend (The owner) saying "we added bacteria, were good!" He tries to talk them out of it and they still buy stuff. so...

 

[The Ugly Phase]

in the UK its 1 hour after arrival

 

[KrisReef]

Considering how nice your corals are, I would expect you to offer an unconditional lifetime warranty.

That way any corals I might purchase would remain your responsibility and I wouldn’t have any reason to buy from anyone else.

You should accept the risk of shipping livestock and have insurance available to cover losses, and replacements or refunds.

You can’t accept responsibility for acclimating, dipping, and dumping performance done by the buyer (customer).

It’s the only way to get the customer to accept responsibility at their end. Lots of customers who are fantastic reefers and aquarium keepers, but the other kind will break your business if you try and cover for them.

 

[mfinn]

Arrive alive.
Any issues need pictures in the bag

 

[Biokabe]

Depends on the animal, but my personal feeling is that a day is reasonable, two days is generous, and anything beyond that is nice if you can cover it but shouldn't be expected by the customer.

Things happen and there certainly are some situations where bad parameters can kill something in a day, but most tanks are not so far out of whack that a day in the tank will kill something that was otherwise healthy; if it can't even last a day, I think that is almost always on the vendor or the shipper.

Two days is about the limit where I think the health of the specimen from the shipper starts to get overwhelmed by local tank conditions. A death past that point might still be the fault of a poor specimen, but if that was really true you would have likely seen signs of it before the two-day mark that should have had you at least talking to your vendor.

 

[Reefer Matt]

I buy and sell coral at local shows, and am aware of how some sellers offer freshly fragged coral. So even in that case, if it makes it for two days in your tank, is that still acceptable?

Can I just offer frags I cut last week since they’ve seemed okay since? Or do I have the responsibility of ensuring the best success for the buyer and wait a while? Just theoretical here.

 

[exnisstech]

I buy and sell coral at local shows, and am aware of how some sellers offer freshly fragged coral. So even in that case, if it makes it for two days in your tank, is that still acceptable?

Can I just offer frags I cut last week since they’ve seemed okay since? Or do I have the responsibility of ensuring the best success for the buyer and wait a while? Just theoretical here.

That's an interesting question. I personally won't buy frags that aren't encrusting because I've had poor luck with fresh cuts. I suppose if you have the room letting them encrust a little would at least show they are growing. I don't know if it's true or not but I've read its better for the frags if they can heal in the same tank they grew in.

 

[Acro Junky]

POTO has a crazy time! 2 weeks

 

[EricR]

Dr. Reef's is 3 days and offers purchasable extended 7 day and 14 day guarantees/insurance.

 

[Biokabe]

I buy and sell coral at local shows, and am aware of how some sellers offer freshly fragged coral. So even in that case, if it makes it for two days in your tank, is that still acceptable?

Can I just offer frags I cut last week since they’ve seemed okay since? Or do I have the responsibility of ensuring the best success for the buyer and wait a while? Just theoretical here.

I think a lot of things are acceptable if the customer is given full knowledge and makes their decision with complete awareness, including what guarantees you're offering.

This is entirely my personal opinion here, but:

If you're selling freshly-fragged corals, they should be clearly labeled as such, slightly cheaper than regular frags and offer no guarantee. Anyone who's buying coral should know that corals like stability and that freshly fragged corals are the most vulnerable, and if they're willing to take that risk they shouldn't be surprised if it doesn't pay off every time.

If you're talking about pre-cut frags... I think that comes down to what you've personally observed and your own risk tolerance. I'm going to use invented numbers here, because I'm not a coral fragging professional and I don't know what the real numbers here. Say you're offering a 1-day guarantee. Frags that were sold within a week of fragging have a 90% chance to survive a day in a random tank and go on to become relatively successful colonies. Frags that were allowed to heal for 2 weeks before you sell them have a 99% chance of surviving a day in a random tank. Do you make enough from the 90% surviving to still honor your 1-day guarantee? Or is it a case where you offer those relatively fresh frags for a lower price, but with only an arrive-alive guarantee?

I don't have a 'right' answer here, because ultimately it's a business and personal decision. Transparency goes a long way towards making things fair to the customer. If you lose a lot of money to guarantees, then you're either not charging enough, selling things too quickly, or being too generous with your guarantee.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

In my early days in Chicago, I worked for an LFS that is fortunately no longer with us. Their replacement policy was pretty standard, and customers needed to provide a water sample for testing. Again, pretty standard.

But they were greedy and absolutely refused to replace a fish if the customer’s water quality parameters weren’t below their threshold. But their acceptable NO3 level was 20, and PO4 level was 0.25 or something. OK…who with a fish-only system doesn’t have NO3 and PO4 above those levels? So they would refuse to help customers out, even on fish that were $500+.

One day I decided to test NO3 and PO4 in their systems. NO3 was between 60-80 on all their systems, and PO4 was above 0.5 on all their systems. They didn’t even qualify for their own guarantee