How long until you achieved consistent success?

[Rakie]

Indeed it's not my first language.
But what I got was
Finished cycle
Put sps on day 1
Done.
Every openion in these forums are wrong
I guided many people

Pretty much that's what I got out of your 3 posts..
I believe another OP @Flatlandreefer) also asked you to clarify and you doubled down..maybe that op also english not so good...

I explained to flatlandreefer in detail, my thoughts are very simple. You're missing what I'm saying.. to clarify, I'm screaming --> NUTRIENTS MAKE SPS EASY.

If you have nutrients SPS are as easy as any coral. I completely stand by that. I've been reef keeping since I was a kid, and my whole life people talked about SPS being so hard, so challenging, so much work..

It's not hard. It's not challenging. It's not extra work. All you need is equipment and nutrients. The people who advocate ULNS systems have frequent issues.

There's not much to say here, it's that simple. Have nutrients = easy to keep SPS. That is the case for everybody who has reached out for help from me, and that is the cornerstone of a healthy reef.

I think "SPS are hard" is a complete myth. It's oy hard if you make it hard, by following bad advice.

I get people to feed more, stop using filter socks, remove chaeto/fuge.

Again, there's not much to say and it's not complicated. I advocate having nutrients to avoid nearly all problems. If you don't understand the relationship between nutrients, alkalinity, and light intensity then I would need to write out a whole article on the subject -- I'm assuming anybody reading this understands this part

 

[CDavmd]

I explained to flatlandreefer in detail, my thoughts are very simple. You're missing what I'm saying.. to clarify, I'm screaming --> NUTRIENTS MAKE SPS EASY.

If you have nutrients SPS are as easy as any coral. I completely stand by that. I've been reef keeping since I was a kid, and my whole life people talked about SPS being so hard, so challenging, so much work..

It's not hard. It's not challenging. It's not extra work. All you need is equipment and nutrients. The people who advocate ULNS systems have frequent issues.

There's not much to say here, it's that simple. Have nutrients = easy to keep SPS. That is the case for everybody who has reached out for help from me, and that is the cornerstone of a healthy reef.

I think "SPS are hard" is a complete myth. It's oy hard if you make it hard, by following bad advice.

I get people to feed more, stop using filter socks, remove chaeto/fuge.

Again, there's not much to say and it's not complicated. I advocate having nutrients to avoid nearly all problems. If you don't understand the relationship between nutrients, alkalinity, and light intensity then I would need to write out a whole article on the subject -- I'm assuming anybody reading this understands this part

+1

....I completely agree with the Nutrients make it much easier. I have also been doing saltwater for as long as I can remember. I've done a variety of mixed reefs always with a few SPS sprinkled in....in all my systems where I did not worry about nutrient control and dealt with algae naturally the SPS would grow. They might brown out when first introduced but over the ensuing months they would grow and color up nicely.

I recently completed a new build. Took it real slow and in order to expedite tearing down my old system and make room for the new (she who must be obeyed was not at all happy with two tanks in the study) I set up a frag system in my basement. Well I joined the bandwagon and tried the "Triton Method" on my frag system. Initially all was good but as time passed the refugium was just too darn efficient. It stripped the nutrients completely out of the water. I only had two utilitarian fish in there for algae control and pests so not enough bioload to keep the nutrients up. I started feeding more, started dumping reef roads, shortened the refugium photoperiod, etc. Still could not maintain phosphate and Nitrate at detectable levels. The SPS that had been thriving started to fade and STN. Newer frags that I had recently purchased would RTN or also brown and fade.

I played with the lighting, started dosing Nitrate and Phosphate and it suddenly hit me....dumb butt take the refugium offline!! Get rid of the Skimmer!! You've been chasing your tail idiot!!

That solved it....nutrients came back, some algae started to reappear and my lawnmower blenny was much happier in there. Over time the frags started growing and coloring up again.

I've moved many of them into my new system that is just shy of 5 months old and they are thriving! Even the brown outs are starting to color up and I'm seeing the recovery green increase daily. The new system has no refugium, loads fo fish and I feed heavily. Nutrients have been steady and plentiful (NO3 12-25 by NYOS and phosphate .06-.15 by Hanna); Ca and ALK have also been rock steady and being monitored and controlled by a Trident.

Interestingly, the base plugs that had some residual tissue on them after cutting the frags off and putting them in my new system were tossed back into the Frag system. They are growing and encrusting and a couple are starting to show early appendages!

Yep I agree entirely, keep things stable and detectable and SPS will grow.

 

[road_runner]

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[Hemmdog]

+1

....I completely agree with the Nutrients make it much easier. I have also been doing saltwater for as long as I can remember. I've done a variety of mixed reefs always with a few SPS sprinkled in....in all my systems where I did not worry about nutrient control and dealt with algae naturally the SPS would grow. They might brown out when first introduced but over the ensuing months they would grow and color up nicely.

I recently completed a new build. Took it real slow and in order to expedite tearing down my old system and make room for the new (she who must be obeyed was not at all happy with two tanks in the study) I set up a frag system in my basement. Well I joined the bandwagon and tried the "Triton Method" on my frag system. Initially all was good but as time passed the refugium was just too darn efficient. It stripped the nutrients completely out of the water. I only had two utilitarian fish in there for algae control and pests so not enough bioload to keep the nutrients up. I started feeding more, started dumping reef roads, shortened the refugium photoperiod, etc. Still could not maintain phosphate and Nitrate at detectable levels. The SPS that had been thriving started to fade and STN. Newer frags that I had recently purchased would RTN or also brown and fade.

I played with the lighting, started dosing Nitrate and Phosphate and it suddenly hit me....dumb *** take the refugium offline!! Get rid of the Skimmer!! You've been chasing your tail idiot!!

That solved it....nutrients came back, some algae started to reappear and my lawnmower blenny was much happier in there. Over time the frags started growing and coloring up again.

I've moved many of them into my new system that is just shy of 5 months old and they are thriving! Even the brown outs are starting to color up and I'm seeing the recovery green increase daily. The new system has no refugium, loads fo fish and I feed heavily. Nutrients have been steady and plentiful (NO3 12-25 by NYOS and phosphate .06-.15 by Hanna); Ca and ALK have also been rock steady and being monitored and controlled by a Trident.

Interestingly, the base plugs that had some residual tissue on them after cutting the frags off and putting them in my new system were tossed back into the Frag system. They are growing and encrusting and a couple are starting to show early appendages!

Yep I agree entirely, keep things stable and detectable and SPS will grow.

What’s in your sump now where your fuge was? Your issues sound very similar to mine.

 

[jda]

To new reefers - Nitrates and Phosphates are not food. They do not give energy. N and P are important, but they are building blocks and not food. It is important to think of them in the right way or else you might not get what you bargained for. Can we please keep this one on track since this can derail quickly? I certainly can contribute to the derail, but I do that enough in other threads.

 

[CDavmd]

What’s in your sump now where your fuge was? Your issues sound very similar to mine.

The bottom is covered with Pond Matrix and I have a couple pieces of live rock in there. Same for the skimmer section, some rock and a bag of carbon I change out every month.

 

[Hemmdog]

The bottom is covered with Pond Matrix and I have a couple pieces of live rock in there. Same for the skimmer section, some rock and a bag of carbon I change out every month.

Wow, that’s wild. Any pics of your sps? Before and after would be amazing if possible.

 

[CDavmd]

To new reefers - Nitrates and Phosphates are not food. They do not give energy. N and P are important, but they are building blocks and not food. It is important to think of them in the right way or else you might not get what you bargained for. Can we please keep this one on track since this can derail quickly? I certainly can contribute to the derail, but I do that enough in other threads.

True....they are the basic compounds that are contained in food breakdown and are essential for biochemical processes and pathways. We tend to use the term "nutrient" loosely in this hobby.

 

[jda]

True, but some people think that they are "food" like sugars, carbon, etc. and that more is a good thing and that the corals can do more with more. Light is what really "feeds" corals, through the zoox, unless they can catch some carbon-rich food... which some can (LPS, NPS, etc.) and some probably cannot (most acropora).

 

[road_runner]

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[road_runner]

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[CDavmd]

Is it though?
I always thought zooxanthellae actually use light energy (photosynthesis) to metabolize phosphorus, carbon and nitrogen. Meaning they actually consume phosphorus and carbon.. then their waste is amino acids that feed the coral tissues that zooxanthellae are embedded in...zooxanthellae do not really eat light...light cannot be consumed, it provide energy... am I wrong with my understanding?
Can someone explain to me where am I confusing myself, if I am?

Strictly speaking the products of photosynthesis are glucose, water and oxygen. The photosynthetic process takes carbon dioxide and water and uses the photons of light to fix the carbon and create the glucose.

Glucose is the then the "food" that allows other processes to take place. It is broken down by a process called glycolysis and then subsequently broken down further in the Krebs cycle. Both of theses processes create ATP which is the high energy compound that makes everything work. ATP has three phosphates in its structure and these are considered high energy chemical bonds. By splitting off a phosphate energy is release which is then used for other metabolic processes.

Essentially think of ATP as the money driving the economy. You need glucose to generate ATP via glycolysis, krebs cycle, and the electron transport chain. There are some other important things generated as well like NADH, etc but I won't make this more complicated.

The ATP, along with other things like the NADH are then used to create other important compounds via a variety of synthetic processes. These include generation of amino acids, lipids, and other more complex carbohydrates. In addition to metabolically creating these substances, some can be obtained by "food " intake. Proteins, fats, and complex carbohydrates are the actual food. They are then broken down to more simple amino acids, fatty acids, and glucose.

So you can see that intake of food provides energy, but in addition in plant and photosynthetic systems, the glucose can be generated by harnessing the suns energy as photons to fixate the carbon and create glucose.

It all plays together....I used to have chart that filled a wall and had all the metabolic processes laid out (was useful when studying biochemistry)- staring at it would boggle the mind!

Hope this helps and hasn't confused the issue further.

 

[jda]

All organic tissue needs new N and P as building blocks to grow and repair - it is a bit more complicated than this, but this is good enough for now. Most corals can recycle N and P to repair and use in the sugar/glucose cycle, but they need them to grow and permanently plant into new tissue. Dinos (zoox) are no different. The zoox use light along with consuming co2 and carbonate to create the sugar for the corals to use - more light can create more sugar, to a point, so this does act like "food." Zoox does not need to multiply to produce sugars, so they only need NEW N and P to create new tissue or multiply. They can use recycled P for the sugar/glucose cycle. They prefer to get new N from ammonia or ammonium since it costs energy to process no3. If there is ANY trace amount, then they have enough to create new tissue or repair. Having 1 or 2 ppb, which works with NSW, is a surplus that the coral is not using... having 10 or 20 is still a surplus... having 100-200 is still a surplus... and in each case, the demand from the coral is not any more.

The crazy thing about all building blocks is that they are poisons at high levels for every living creature - each creature is different. All creatures need them in sufficient supply, but not too many. In our tanks, having even slightly elevated N and P can significantly slow down coralline growth, calcification, can kill dinos and diatoms (which is not always bad), and can grow excess zoox in some corals that can produce colors that some people like. Some corals won't care with really high levels... some will die with slightly elevated levels. Nearly all calcification will slow down with elevated levels which is why you can see some tanks with frags that are barely 2 inches after a few years and other tanks with corals go from 1 inch to the size of dinner plates in the same time.

 

[road_runner]

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[CDavmd]

Is the informations in this video wrong?


Can someone help.me and correct me if I missunderstood..
Not only from this video, other literature that I read describe the photosynthetic proccess in simple terms as using light energy to metsbolize something not eating light photons itself...

Ok, that video is a gross oversimplification. Photosynthesis does one thing- create glucose and oxygen from carbon dioxide and water. Thats it....basically making one kind of food. The subsequent metabolizing of glucose (breakdown) creates smaller simpler compounds and generates ATP from Adenosine which is a nucleic acid and phosphate. The ATP is used by the cells in addition to other raw materials that are either made or consumed to subsequently create the other things needed for life and growth....basically living organisms take in food and also make their own via biosynthetic pathways. Its all interrelated ....things made, things brought in, things broken down, breakdown products used to make other things, etc....

 

[road_runner]

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[CDavmd]

AWESOME! Thank you so much.
So light here is used ad energy correct?

Yes light is energy.....photons are the packets of light....both a particle and wave (einstein duality of light). The photons cause an electron to become excited in the photosynthetic machinery and this transfer of energy allows the fixation of carbon to create the 6 carbon molecule of glucose.

 

[road_runner]

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[CDavmd]

Ha ha love how much you dumped it down for me while at the same time went quantum physics on me ha ha.
This falls in line of what I thought...

Thank you doc.

you're welcome....hope I wasn't too confusing. I thought as an engineer you'd appreciate the quantum reference. It's all pretty fascinating....we're all just one giant chemical reaction heading for equilibrium!

 

[road_runner]

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