How much does air affect Kalkwasser potency?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Cloudiness won’t impact conductivity much. I’d make a true saturated solution (Say, 2 tablespoons solids in a cup of ro/di, stir, settle a few min and measure. Use that as a measure of saturation, and anything less is less than saturated.

How high does this pen claim to be able to read?

 

[DeputyDog95]

Cloudiness won’t impact conductivity much. I’d make a true saturated solution (Say, 2 tablespoons solids in a cup of ro/di, stir, settle a few min and measure. Use that as a measure of saturation, and anything less is less than saturated.

How high does this pen claim to be able to read?

The pen reads to 9.99ms. Narrow range but I figured it would be more accurate than something reading in a much wider range.

I saw them using the same one in a BRS video. Not sure what happens when you over 10.

I just asked in another thread, but why do you prefer measuring conductivity over pH?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A maxed reading complicates the issue. I doubt it reads perfectly accurately to 9.99 and then just says 9.99. Some others have had results where it never reaches 9.99 mS/cm.

this reply copied here from the other thread:

pH is much cruder since it is a logarithmic scale ( a 0.3 pH unit difference is a doubling of potency) and a meter calibrated at pH 7 and 10 will not be especially accurate at pH 12.5.

Potency is linear with conductivity, and is easily read at 5-10 mS/cm (50-100% potency) with an appropriate meter.

 

[DeputyDog95]

A maxed reading complicates the issue. I doubt it reads perfectly accurately to 9.99 and then just says 9.99. Some others have had results where it never reaches 9.99 mS/cm.

this reply copied here from the other thread:

pH is much cruder since it is a logarithmic scale ( a 0.3 pH unit difference is a doubling of potency) and a meter calibrated at pH 7 and 10 will not be especially accurate at pH 12.5.

Potency is linear with conductivity, and is easily read at 5-10 mS/cm (50-100% potency) with an appropriate meter.

Appreciate the info

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

these kalkwasser preperation instructions could be conflicting...

Reef Blueprint Isol8:Ca(OH)2 5000g - Kalkwasser

Calcium hydroxide, USP (Kalkwasser). Calcium hydroxide (Kalkwasser), >99.0% purity (exceeds purity of most USP-graded material). Provides calcium, increases pH. Kalkwasser application is an integral part of an effective pH-management and coral growth regimen in dedicated coral culture systems.

www.championlighting.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

these kalkwasser preperation instructions could be conflicting...

Reef Blueprint Isol8:Ca(OH)2 5000g - Kalkwasser

Calcium hydroxide, USP (Kalkwasser). Calcium hydroxide (Kalkwasser), >99.0% purity (exceeds purity of most USP-graded material). Provides calcium, increases pH. Kalkwasser application is an integral part of an effective pH-management and coral growth regimen in dedicated coral culture systems.

www.championlighting.com

Conflicting with what?

 

[DeputyDog95]

A maxed reading complicates the issue. I doubt it reads perfectly accurately to 9.99 and then just says 9.99. Some others have had results where it never reaches 9.99 mS/cm.

this reply copied here from the other thread:

pH is much cruder since it is a logarithmic scale ( a 0.3 pH unit difference is a doubling of potency) and a meter calibrated at pH 7 and 10 will not be especially accurate at pH 12.5.

Potency is linear with conductivity, and is easily read at 5-10 mS/cm (50-100% potency) with an appropriate meter.

Appreciate your patience with my Kalk new questions... Reading and watching as much as I can on the topic.

Another question if you'll indulge me.

As I continue to experiment with using Kalk to supplement my 2 part and boost nighttime pH, there's been lots of trial and error. Mostly error LoL Nothing too serious fortunately.

Right now I'm dosing over a 12 hour period approximately 3 liters at a rate of about 5ml a min. That seems to be keeping my alk and Ca stable overnight, but isn't doing a whole lot for pH.

I don't want to overshoot my alk. Maybe shorten the dosing period for a faster drip rate to outcompete the diurnal swing since I can't really increase the volume?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Appreciate your patience with my Kalk new questions... Reading and watching as much as I can on the topic.

Another question if you'll indulge me.

As I continue to experiment with using Kalk to supplement my 2 part and boost nighttime pH, there's been lots of trial and error. Mostly error LoL Nothing too serious fortunately.

Right now I'm dosing over a 12 hour period approximately 3 liters at a rate of about 5ml a min. That seems to be keeping my alk and Ca stable overnight, but isn't doing a whole lot for pH.

I don't want to overshoot my alk. Maybe shorten the dosing period for a faster drip rate to outcompete the diurnal swing since I can't really increase the volume?

There's really no perfect timing method that will up the pH effect at the same total amount of alk added.

Adding 1.25 dKH of alk via hydroxide 9as in kalkwasser) will instantly boost ph buy about 0.65 pH units. Then the pH drops back as the tnak pulls in more CO2. from the air. 12 h later, the pH may be back at, or close to, the starting point.

But when spread out over many hours (say, 12 h) the rise is much smaller because the tank is pulling in CO2 all the while.

IMO, the better plan is slow steady dosing over the low pH time of day, when the goal is pH raising. I expect that gives an average higher pH than instantaneous dosing, but the overall effect will depend on how much is dosed, and how effectively the tank is aerated with the high CO2 air.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Conflicting with what?

conflicting with other opinions or facts

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

conflicting with other opinions or facts

oK. Aside from being extraordinarily cautious in using it, which might be a lawyer's rewrite of it, I didn't see any particular issue that concerns me.

Was there a particular point I may have missed?

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

oK. Aside from being extraordinarily cautious in using it, which might be a lawyer's rewrite of it, I didn't see any particular issue that concerns me.

Was there a particular point I may have missed?

just the amount of time for the solution to be used up sticks out to me, and I heard someone on a popular YouTube video with a popular "method" mention not making months worth of solution due to degradation... the confliction lol

 

[Garf]

just the amount of time for the solution to be used up sticks out to me, and I heard someone on a popular YouTube video with a popular "method" mention not making months worth of solution due to degradation... the confliction lol

Yeah, you just add a little more powder, so theres a bit of excess on the container bottom, which keeps it saturated.

Edit - for what it's worth, I regularly suspend these excess solids through adding fresh stuff every couple of days. I do not allow my dosing pump access to more than 2 days worth of the magic milk.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, that 2 days is excessively conservative, and the deposited solids are not be be feared.

 

[DeputyDog95]

Cloudiness won’t impact conductivity much. I’d make a true saturated solution (Say, 2 tablespoons solids in a cup of ro/di, stir, settle a few min and measure. Use that as a measure of saturation, and anything less is less than saturated.

How high does this pen claim to be able to read?

So, I mixed up a small batch of Kalk as you suggested, and it only got up to 9.3 after I let the probe sit in there for a bit. It was a bit slow to rise... The Kalk in my reactor was reading around 8.3. Again, took a min or so to settle.

Safe to say, the meter is probably off. Finding a 10ms conductivity solution is proving to be a challenge. It's factory calibrated with a 1.4 ms solution which may explain why it's not so great on the top end.

If 2 tbs of Kalk mixed in a cup of water should be read 10ms, could I use that as a calibration standard instead of trying to find one?

I still find it odd that my reactor, which has fresh Kalk in it, thoroughly mixed, was reading lower than the test cup.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If 2 tbs of Kalk mixed in a cup of water should be read 10ms, could I use that as a calibration standard instead of trying to find one?

I still find it odd that my reactor, which has fresh Kalk in it, thoroughly mixed, was reading lower than the test cup.

Yes, that’s how I suggest comparing to the reactor, and tea, many people are surprised when their reactors do not produce saturated limewater.

 

[DeputyDog95]

Yes, that’s how I suggest comparing to the reactor, and tea, many people are surprised when their reactors do not produce saturated limewater.

So, I tried mixing 2 teaspoons of Kalk in about 6-7 ounces of water. Stirred it up, let it sit for 5 mins, and then tested it and my reactor.

The cup came in at 7.8 and the reactor came in at 8.3.

Regardless of the inaccuracy of the numbers, how in the world would the reactor come in higher than the "test cup"? My hopes of it being good enough to calibrate off were quickly dashed when it came in lower than the reactor. That makes no sense.

Should I just try and find some 8-9ms calibration solution instead?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So, I tried mixing 2 teaspoons of Kalk in about 6-7 ounces of water. Stirred it up, let it sit for 5 mins, and then tested it and my reactor.

The cup came in at 7.8 and the reactor came in at 8.3.

Regardless of the inaccuracy of the numbers, how in the world would the reactor come in higher than the "test cup"? My hopes of it being good enough to calibrate off were quickly dashed when it came in lower than the reactor. That makes no sense.

Should I just try and find some 8-9ms calibration solution instead?

I agree that is surprising. The reactor is using RO/DI and the same type of kalkwasser solids?

It's possible the device is just maxed out in the 8 mS/cm range and can't really distinguish numbers well in the range.

Try it is some tank water and see what it says.

 

[DeputyDog95]

I agree that is surprising. The reactor is using RO/DI and the same type of kalkwasser solids?

It's possible the device is just maxed out in the 8 mS/cm range and can't really distinguish numbers well in the range.

Try it is some tank water and see what it says.

Yep. Same water, same Kalk.

I had previously tried putting the meter in the tank and and it errored out. So I assume it was above the 10ms range of the meter?

I've about lost my patience trying to make this reactor work as well as the 5 gallon bucket I had used previously, did. That was so simple and so consistent. Just a pain refilling and mixing every 5 days.

I'm considering getting one of these and calling it a day. This would get me close to 2 months, which would probably be time to recharge it regardless.

Plastic Drum with Lid - 55 Gallon, Open Top, Natural S-9945NAT - Uline

Excellent for indoor or outdoor use. Corrosion free, dent-resistant polyethylene. 55 gallon stores 285 lbs. of solids. Quick-lock lid (included) won't pop open in transit. Two openings to pour and vent: 2" and 3/4" diameter. Allow for easy viewing of contents. FDA compliant resins.ULINE offers...

www.uline.com

How high above the bottom would you put the dosing line so it doesn't suck up the precipitate?

If go this route, which I'm leaning heavily towards, how long do you think it needs to be mixed with a pump to reach full saturation before I seal it up?

 

[DeputyDog95]

Follow up question.

Assuming, two teaspoons of Kalk per gallon for full saturation, a teaspoon of Alk weighs approx 4g, and you have a container holding 55g of RODI water...

Does 220g of Kalk, mixed thoroughly, sound about right to get me to full saturation?

I ordered that Uline 55g container this morning. I'm done fooling with these reactors. They save space, but the constant tinkering to not get to full saturation and trying to keep it at full saturation is getting old as compared to the bucket method. Mix, seal, dose. Easy!

This drum has a nice top that seals the whole thing off. We'll probably just drill one of the caps and use a john guest fitting to connect the outside to the inside to eliminate any air exchange.

As mentioned above, I'm still not sure what to use to run a straight line to the bottom and how high the pickup should be off the bottom to avoid picking up the sludge.

Suggestions welcome

 

[DeputyDog95]

I agree that is surprising. The reactor is using RO/DI and the same type of kalkwasser solids?

It's possible the device is just maxed out in the 8 mS/cm range and can't really distinguish numbers well in the range.

Try it is some tank water and see what it says.

I ordered this today so I can calibrate the unit. I'll just set it to 9.99 so it's within the devices range. Close enough

I would assume if I can calibrate this unit to precisely the number I'm trying to hit, I should get the best accuracy out of it. I think anyway...