How quickly does AEFW spread?

[dtruitt]

Made a rookie mistake and dipped a Mille in Bayer 12 hours after introducing it to the display tank. Probably a dozen flatworms came off in the dip.

It's been removed from its plug and glued on a fresh plug on a frag rack well away from any other acropora. No signs of eggs on the Mille.

Are AEFW likely to spread to other colonies in that little time?

I'm thinking I will mix up some more Bayer, pull all of the acros, dip for 15 - 20 minutes, and then glue them all back in place today. Should I be concerned about eggs on other specimens at this point in time?

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I wouldn’t think they would have time to lay eggs on any other corals but could have payed some on the base of some stuff. They are sneaky little worms, I have to say, almost like they will hide in places you can’t see like they know your there looking from one perspective.
If you dip everything and make sure you don’t have eggs in theory you should be good. But it’s very hard to make sure so just keep checking your corals weekly for bite marks. If they did make it into the system don’t freak out, they won’t just start killing corals it takes some time for the numbers to get to the point where damage is apparent.

 

[dtruitt]

I wouldn’t think they would have time to lay eggs on any other corals but could have payed some on the base of some stuff. They are sneaky little worms, I have to say, almost like they will hide in places you can’t see like they know your there looking from one perspective.
If you dip everything and make sure you don’t have eggs in theory you should be good. But it’s very hard to make sure so just keep checking your corals weekly for bite marks. If they did make it into the system don’t freak out, they won’t just start killing corals it takes some time for the numbers to get to the point where damage is apparent.

I'm not too concerned. Ive got a six line wrasse and two sapphire damsels to wrangle pests, but the tank will be fallow until November.

Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[jda]

It is possible that they spread already. They are quite prolific. I would dip and observe everything else too.

Fish and other natural controls are mostly a joke... they help, but they never seem to eradicate anything.

 

[dtruitt]

It is possible that they spread already. They are quite prolific. I would dip and observe everything else too.

Fish and other natural controls are mostly a joke... they help, but they never seem to eradicate anything.

I'll get on it when lights come back on at 4. Do you think one dip will get the job done since the infected colony came in so recently? Need to determine if acros should be glued back in their places, or glued onto plugs and kept on a rack for easier access.

I think I'm going to chop this mille up into a few frags and discard the core altogether.

 

[jda]

This is all about risk and how much you can tolerate. How much are you willing to work to mitigate the risk? There are no absolutes here... none whatsoever.

 

[dtruitt]

This is all about risk and how much you can tolerate. How much are you willing to work to mitigate the risk? There are no absolutes here... none whatsoever.

I'll run a few more dips then. There's only 10 frags / colonies, shouldn't be too bad to dip them twice a week for a couple of weeks.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Only need to dip them once a week. Twice a week is a little too much stress on certain acropora ime and just extra work for nothing. Just baste the corals off once or twice in the middle of your weekly dips to keep them from taking hold of certain favorites. This will also allow you to see if any worms fly off and if you turn the pumps off you can sometimes suck the worm up with the baster.
If you only have ten pieces it sounds like an easy way to make sure you don’t get them.

 

[dtruitt]

Only need to dip them once a week. Twice a week is a little too much stress on certain acropora ime and just extra work for nothing. Just baste the corals off once or twice in the middle of your weekly dips to keep them from taking hold of certain favorites. This will also allow you to see if any worms fly off and if you turn the pumps off you can sometimes suck the worm up with the baster.
If you only have ten pieces it sounds like an easy way to make sure you don’t get them.

Once a week is super manageable.

Should I dip today, or should I dip tomorrow to give any of the little devils that may have left the Mille a chance to find a new host to grab onto?

Seems like it would be better to ensure that any AEFW in the tank end up on a host, rather than dipping right now while they might be wandering around.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Don’t think it will matter much as long as you do 4 dips one week apart at the least you should be good. It’s whatever is easiest for you at this point. I find melafix or revive is best for dipping for these things because you can see into the dip and see the worms fall off. Melafix is less harsh than most any other dip I have used too.
You have more will than me. I just got a few corals and one had a few bite marks. I dipped and looked for eggs and called it good. Didn’t see any worms. If they show up later I will deal with them but I normally just go the lazy route. Most would chuck the coral but I can’t do that. Shoot, if the coral looks good I normally don’t even dip. I am sure I will pay for it at some point but most acros I get don’t need the extra stress and do better just going right in the tank. I find most pests I have had came from other reefers or vendors and I have not seen near the amount of pests on wild and maricultured acros.

 

[dtruitt]

Don’t think it will matter much as long as you do 4 dips one week apart at the least you should be good. It’s whatever is easiest for you at this point. I find melafix or revive is best for dipping for these things because you can see into the dip and see the worms fall off. Melafix is less harsh than most any other dip I have used too.
You have more will than me. I just got a few corals and one had a few bite marks. I dipped and looked for eggs and called it good. Didn’t see any worms. If they show up later I will deal with them but I normally just go the lazy route. Most would chuck the coral but I can’t do that. Shoot, if the coral looks good I normally don’t even dip. I am sure I will pay for it at some point but most acros I get don’t need the extra stress and do better just going right in the tank. I find most pests I have had came from other reefers or vendors and I have not seen near the amount of pests on wild and maricultured acros.

The lazy route is definitely a thought in my mind.

I'll probably start tomorrow by dipping a couple of acros that need to be cut anyway. If there are no AEFW on them, I'll leave the higher end pieces where they are and hit the mille and pieces I cut again next week to confirm the AEFW didn't spread.

Mille was free because PE wasn't great in the store. Cut 6 frags from it this morning so I could trash the base. If the price I pay is a few rounds of dips on all of my acros, and I get to trade 5 chunks back in for store credit, I'm a happy camper.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

The only reason I take the lazy route is because I have a lot of experience with acro pests and anyone who hasn’t dealt with aefw, I would tell to do all they can to keep them out of the tank.
If I get them I will just baste often which I already do to keep detritus from taking hold in certain spots and corals, and use flatworm stop at the double dose to slowly kill them off. I did this once before and it worked really well, although I know a lot of reefers who won’t want to wait 3/4 of a year for results.

 

[rusgum]

If they already exist, then God will help you. 100% option is to remove all acres and not even a piece of the skirt is left. A system without an acre with a margin should live for about 3 months. Don't rely on fish, etc. They can enter into symbiosis with acres, but then how the card will fall

 

[dtruitt]

The only reason I take the lazy route is because I have a lot of experience with acro pests and anyone who hasn’t dealt with aefw, I would tell to do all they can to keep them out of the tank.
If I get them I will just baste often which I already do to keep detritus from taking hold in certain spots and corals, and use flatworm stop at the double dose to slowly kill them off. I did this once before and it worked really well, although I know a lot of reefers who won’t want to wait 3/4 of a year for results.

No flatworms came off in dips today. I will dip again next week. If I'm not seeing AEFW by then, is there much point in continuing to stress the corals out with Bayer dips?

 

[Graffiti Spot]

If there was an egg laid then it will hatch in 3 weeks or so so yea that’s why the dips have to last four weeks. But it’s up to you. Like jda said it’s all about the risk you want to take. If you don’t think any eggs could have been laid and want to take the easy route and cross your fingers or if you want to be positive. Problem is when there are that many worms on one coral chances of one being able to lay eggs is much higher.

 

[dtruitt]

If there was an egg laid then it will hatch in 3 weeks or so so yea that’s why the dips have to last four weeks. But it’s up to you. Like jda said it’s all about the risk you want to take. If you don’t think any eggs could have been laid and want to take the easy route and cross your fingers or if you want to be positive. Problem is when there are that many worms on one coral chances of one being able to lay eggs is much higher.

Another clean round of dips last weekend and this weekend. Prognosis is good. Im hoping to call it a settled issue with clean dips next weekend.

 

[Perry]

Turkey baster method alongside of KZ Flatworm Stop is an option and have beaten them twice even with large colonies. It requires observation, understanding the sick corals, and ultimately training fish to consume a them as a food source post Turkey basting. In the beginning have a clear juice glass filled with RODI and as you baste, and see the worms release, suck them in, and have another, empty clear glass available to empty baster into. Turn off power heads during basting, as you blast them, they will release into water column, best to do during actinic lighting, they become more active, and easier to spot. Once you suck one in, empty into clear glass. You can easily see them this way. The worm will attach to glass and start moving, slowly pour as much water out, and replace with RODI, this will kill the worm instantly. It will release from glass, letting you know its dead. Keep gathering and killing with rodi until you get a few, then suck them back into baster and shoot dead ones back into tank, get fish excited first, as if a feeding is coming. Watch all sorts of fish, clowns, chromis, dottyback, tangs, and of course wrasse got nuts. Do this for a week as you train your fish that the baster means food. Baste suspect corals every few days. Fish learn to eat them, wrasse better at hunting them. KZ helps injured corals, eventually the corals grow faster than the worms can consume tissue and multiply, especially cause basting is reducing population. KZ also helps corals with slime coat, which is a deterrent to the worms. Just an option to those not wanting to additionally stress already stressed corals with dips.
Cheers

 

[dtruitt]

Turkey baster method alongside of KZ Flatworm Stop is an option and have beaten them twice even with large colonies. It requires observation, understanding the sick corals, and ultimately training fish to consume a them as a food source post Turkey basting. In the beginning have a clear juice glass filled with RODI and as you baste, and see the worms release, suck them in, and have another, empty clear glass available to empty baster into. Turn off power heads during basting, as you blast them, they will release into water column, best to do during actinic lighting, they become more active, and easier to spot. Once you suck one in, empty into clear glass. You can easily see them this way. The worm will attach to glass and start moving, slowly pour as much water out, and replace with RODI, this will kill the worm instantly. It will release from glass, letting you know its dead. Keep gathering and killing with rodi until you get a few, then suck them back into baster and shoot dead ones back into tank, get fish excited first, as if a feeding is coming. Watch all sorts of fish, clowns, chromis, dottyback, tangs, and of course wrasse got nuts. Do this for a week as you train your fish that the baster means food. Baste suspect corals every few days. Fish learn to eat them, wrasse better at hunting them. KZ helps injured corals, eventually the corals grow faster than the worms can consume tissue and multiply, especially cause basting is reducing population. KZ also helps corals with slime coat, which is a deterrent to the worms. Just an option to those not wanting to additionally stress already stressed corals with dips.
Cheers

Thanks. This is a good idea for the future. I am going to implement more rigorous dipping protocol on LFS purchased Acropora Sp.

Smooth skin, bushy, and tabling acro look the very best they've ever looked. Im fairly optimistic that AEFW won't be an issue for some time.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Turkey baster method alongside of KZ Flatworm Stop is an option and have beaten them twice even with large colonies. It requires observation, understanding the sick corals, and ultimately training fish to consume a them as a food source post Turkey basting. In the beginning have a clear juice glass filled with RODI and as you baste, and see the worms release, suck them in, and have another, empty clear glass available to empty baster into. Turn off power heads during basting, as you blast them, they will release into water column, best to do during actinic lighting, they become more active, and easier to spot. Once you suck one in, empty into clear glass. You can easily see them this way. The worm will attach to glass and start moving, slowly pour as much water out, and replace with RODI, this will kill the worm instantly. It will release from glass, letting you know its dead. Keep gathering and killing with rodi until you get a few, then suck them back into baster and shoot dead ones back into tank, get fish excited first, as if a feeding is coming. Watch all sorts of fish, clowns, chromis, dottyback, tangs, and of course wrasse got nuts. Do this for a week as you train your fish that the baster means food. Baste suspect corals every few days. Fish learn to eat them, wrasse better at hunting them. KZ helps injured corals, eventually the corals grow faster than the worms can consume tissue and multiply, especially cause basting is reducing population. KZ also helps corals with slime coat, which is a deterrent to the worms. Just an option to those not wanting to additionally stress already stressed corals with dips.
Cheers

This is exactly what I did last time I rid a tank of them. Except I didn’t bother using rodi water to baste. I actually still try and baste as often as I can just to keep the corals happy, even though I don’t have any aefw.
Great post! I would encourage more to try this method but use a double dose of the flatworm which works a lot better than the recommended dose. This method hasn’t cought on yet but works really well. It really beats dipping a lot of acros every week. I guess a lot of people don’t want to wait 9 months to beat them. But the corals look so much better during the whole process. I always found there were a few acros that don’t like being dipped every week and have a tough time coming through the dips because of how infected they were. I think this method avoids some of this kind of damage people see.

 

[Perry]

This is exactly what I did last time I rid a tank of them. Except I didn’t bother using rodi water to baste. I actually still try and baste as often as I can just to keep the corals happy, even though I don’t have any aefw.
Great post! I would encourage more to try this method but use a double dose of the flatworm which works a lot better than the recommended dose. This method hasn’t cought on yet but works really well. It really beats dipping a lot of acros every week. I guess a lot of people don’t want to wait 9 months to beat them. But the corals look so much better during the whole process. I always found there were a few acros that don’t like being dipped every week and have a tough time coming through the dips because of how infected they were. I think this method avoids some of this kind of damage people see.

Thanks, and yes, more than one way to go about dealing with these pests! I use KZ already, and will probably always use, as I can see how the health of corals is the game. I think the number 1 problem is freaking out about discovery, its really not a big deal, and personally I don't want to ever deal with Planaria again, that nearly shut down a previous tank, I am more afraid of them, lol