How to live with awfw?

[road_runner]

Straight from kz... “Dosage: 1 ml per 100 Liter tank water. Dose directly into the tank. For ailing corals dosage can be increased to double or triple.”

No one is debating here. Only trying to help. Fws won’t hurt your coral, if something happened it was from something else, especially if it was coral death.
I believe those of us jda is talking about have proved that overdosing fws is not going to hurt anything in the tank. I was using anywhere from 2 to 3 times the suggested dose. Kz says if needed to do so. Not sure who you talked to or what they told you but this is the one product from them I would not worry about. I actually started at the suggested dose and didn’t see much difference until I switched to higher doses after a month.

Thanks for your sharing.
How does fws work exactly?
What happen at normal dose?
What happen with overdose?

Appreciate your experince and sharing.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I think those questions have been asked to kz many times and no real answer has been given, just vague descriptions that leave a lot more questions. Probably the same with all their products.
I am just sad that it wasn’t advertised correctly in the beginning. A lot of people put out bad reviews thinking their problems were solved and many of them didn’t give it enough time or didn’t take action basting. This is a real solution for a lot of people with aefw, I am very suprised at the amount of people willing to try and continue to try purge and then there is the small few of us who are pushing for more people to try the fws or wormwood method.

 

[Lasse]

This pipefish (Corythoichthys intestinalis) says to be the best predator of aefw you can get.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[jda]

I outlined all of this in my threads, and even on here.

Double Dose interrupts the life cycle and the parents die childless after 4-6 months. The stuff does not kill the worms - nobody ever said that it did (even KZ). After a week, the corals look a lot better. After a month, no eggs, or very few and bite marks are very few. After a few months, no eggs and worms starting to decrease. After 4-6 months, nothing left.

I have never heard of an overdose and some people have gone stronger than I did. I don't think that the 8x dose like some people did would speed this up since it does still not kill the worms and you eventually have to wait for them to die of old age... it might help to get to more of them.

Normal dose has decreased eggs, but they still seem to lay them after several months. Normal dose seems to knock them back, but does not eradicate them.

We did not ever baste. Definitely could not hurt anything, we just did not do it. I would recommend a lot of strong, indirect flow... and basting if you can. Dips on some easy to remove ones could help in the first few days, but the stress from constant dipping is probably not good.

 

[road_runner]

I think those questions have been asked to kz many times and no real answer has been given, just vague descriptions that leave a lot more questions. Probably the same with all their products.
I am just sad that it wasn’t advertised correctly in the beginning. A lot of people put out bad reviews thinking their problems were solved and many of them didn’t give it enough time or didn’t take action basting. This is a real solution for a lot of people with aefw, I am very suprised at the amount of people willing to try and continue to try purge and then there is the small few of us who are pushing for more people to try the fws or wormwood method.

Agreed and that is exactly my point.
So far my understanding from reading the product reviews and how its described by kz:
Fws act by stimulating the acro to generate slimy protection layer.. stimulate here is basically irritating it slightly.
The slimy cover is not generated by the FWS itself, its generated by the acro.
It's the same effect acros exhibit when you handle them by hand outside the water, they generate this coat of protective layer.

Now, we understand how dosing fws will not hurt the flatworm or anything rather just stimulate the acro to get a protective layer.

Flatworms will still exist on acro plugs, ither coral that are not affected by the FWS or coral that cannot generate a protective layer on all ota body.. hence the product should not be advertised ad cure to flat worm rather protection from ot, now they actually say that more clearly if you ask kz..

Finally to the dosing, the balance between how much you stimulate the acro is a key here, overdosing might mean stronger stimulation which means thicker payer, but is that good? Is that needed even? I argue it is not.
Kz products always say "it will not negatively impact the tank" they say that in CV and coral booster even...can you dump a whole bottle of CV or CB in the system without expecting nutrients jump? I think not.

Hope that helped explaining why I do not believe overdosing is more helpful than normal dose, and I do not believe anyone would overdose long term.
People will hear someone overdosed, but if we go ask(in this case am asking you..the source) I will bet that you do not do it long term,.

 

[jda]

The FWS cannot allow the corals to slime all of the time or else they would die of malnutrition. It is not likely that this product does this at all. It might make the coral taste worse (less palatable for a parasite), but slime production takes too much energy to do all of the time.

...so are we past the point that the owner said that double dose is harmful since they put it in the instructions that it is OK?

 

[road_runner]

I think those questions have been asked to kz many times and no real answer has been given, just vague descriptions that leave a lot more questions. Probably the same with all their products.
I am just sad that it wasn’t advertised correctly in the beginning. A lot of people put out bad reviews thinking their problems were solved and many of them didn’t give it enough time or didn’t take action basting. This is a real solution for a lot of people with aefw, I am very suprised at the amount of people willing to try and continue to try purge and then there is the small few of us who are pushing for more people to try the fws or wormwood method.

Thank you for sharing your experince btw. I have lots of respect for people who share their own experience.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I don’t think the corals are forced into sliming with this method. But for now all we have are thoughts so that’s why I like these threads when they are allowed to continue. I would love to hear thoughts from anyone with any other ideas.
Jda is right and the basting is not needed per day but I believe it knocks months off the end if you baste the corals every couple days while the product is beginning and numbers are large. I think it helps keep them from laying as many eggs.

 

[road_runner]

I don’t think the corals are forced into sliming with this method. But for now all we have are thoughts so that’s why I like these threads when they are allowed to continue. I would love to hear thoughts from anyone with any other ideas.
Jda is right and the basting is not needed per day but I believe it knocks months off the end if you baste the corals every couple days while the product is beginning and numbers are large. I think it helps keep them from laying as many eggs.

Since we do not know where the worm cycle is at, I would do daily basting for a month then reduce it. Thos way you have no margin for doubt. From experince basting will not always work and will not blow away all worms on the coral unfortunately...

As for the sliming. I do believe coral is being stimulated to slime. Fws do not add the protective layer.
To me any overdosing recommendations from a user do not have much weight, if that works the vendor would have said so and sold more product. Products are developed for certain functions and tested against these functions. Especially kz they do actual trials on coral and try to evaluate ling and short term effects when they recommend a dose, I follow it. I have seen first hand issues that come from over dosing their products just because it says in the bottle"no negative effect".. there is always a side effect of overdosing any product..

Hopefully OP find a path that help him and give him peace of mind. I do not have much more value to add on top of what I said, at the end of the day, we live with out own decisions;)

Thanks again for sharing. Nice chatting with you.

 

[oldnsalty]

Well as the OP you all have convinced me to start using fsw asap. I heard the raves on purge and tried that route only to be let down, lost corals and several months of growth along with quite a bit of money. Sounds like fws is a lot gentler treatment and less stressful for the end user.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Since we do not know where the worm cycle is at, I would do daily basting for a month then reduce it. Thos way you have no margin for doubt. From experince basting will not always work and will not blow away all worms on the coral unfortunately...

As for the sliming. I do believe coral is being stimulated to slime. Fws do not add the protective layer.
To me any overdosing recommendations from a user do not have much weight, if that works the vendor would have said so and sold more product. Products are developed for certain functions and tested against these functions. Especially kz they do actual trials on coral and try to evaluate ling and short term effects when they recommend a dose, I follow it. I have seen first hand issues that come from over dosing their products just because it says in the bottle"no negative effect".. there is always a side effect of overdosing any product..

Hopefully OP find a path that help him and give him peace of mind. I do not have much more value to add on top of what I said, at the end of the day, we live with out own decisions;)

Thanks again for sharing. Nice chatting with you.

That’s exactly what I did, slowed down basting then stopped when I didn’t see anything for a while. I do know the corals have a thicker outer layer while using it I am just not sure it’s being irritated to develop it.
No one here has suggested overdosing according to kz, we all used a two time dosage.

OP, please let us know how things turn out if you use the fws.

 

[road_runner]

Ok so i asked thomas pohl today and here is his answer

Me Question: does over dosing FWS help in any way shape or forum

Thomas pohl:
"we dose fws 1ml mixed with k Balance 1ml since 4 years 3-4 times per
week per 100L without any problems."

Me: how about over dosing, any more advantage or better effect from over dosing?

Thomas phol:
"Overdosing helps not more"

Hopefully this help more.

Cheers

 

[jd-woodlands]

I have been using KZ FWS for about 2 months now after no success with Purge, corals have never been better. I've seen a reduction in eggs and mature adults as well, so far so good. I'm doing 2 mls a day in about 25 gallons.

I'll occasionally baste some acros with freshwater while in tank - its a good way to stun the AEFW to get them to dislodge from coral tissue.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Ok so i asked thomas pohl today and here is his answer

Me Question: does over dosing FWS help in any way shape or forum

Thomas pohl:
"we dose fws 1ml mixed with k Balance 1ml since 4 years 3-4 times per
week per 100L without any problems."

Me: how about over dosing, any more advantage or better effect from over dosing?

Thomas phol:
"Overdosing helps not more"

Hopefully this help more.

Cheers

Again overdosing would be using it even more than we have been according to HIS directions on his site. Don’t worry more people will try this method with success like we did and prove more does actually help rid the tank.
He said overdosing helps not more, but rarely anyone has rid their tank with the standard dose and many left it on their shelf in the beginning because of it. They used to say only one dose a day when it first came out. Now the site says three times a day at most, so obviously they changed it for a reason, because it helps. Every tank is a little different though, maybe he had the same luck at the small dose since he is running the whole zeo system obviously. He could be much more worded in all of his reply’s if he wanted to help imo.

 

[road_runner]

Again overdosing would be using it even more than we have been according to HIS directions on his site. Don’t worry more people will try this method with success like we did and prove more does actually help rid the tank.
He said overdosing helps not more, but rarely anyone has rid their tank with the standard dose and many left it on their shelf in the beginning because of it. They used to say only one dose a day when it first came out. Now the site says three times a day at most, so obviously they changed it for a reason, because it helps. Every tank is a little different though, maybe he had the same luck at the small dose since he is running the whole zeo system obviously. He could be much more worded in all of his reply’s if he wanted to help imo.

:) I give up.

 

[coralbeauties]

I’ve ordered some wormwood powder from amazon. Should be here tomorrow. My system is about 350 gallons and at single dose I would be out about $50 a month for fws, $100 at double dose. I was only able to find about 6 worms last week so my tank isn’t totally out of control with worms. @jda has listed his mixture for using wormwood in another thread so I will be using it.
Thanks