How to locate my floor joists and the load bearing wall?

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Makubex

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Heres a vid to help visualize better, in the basement-the stand with the fish supplies is the front(where the windows are on the 2nd floor) the other side to the left is the bottom of the red wall, the red wall DIVIDES the other house nextdoor so I assume next to that red wall is a living room or a kitchen


 

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Is for my 125 gallon on the second floor I've seen so much people do this so they can place their aquariums on there, thanks
I used a structural engineer to locate and mark mine a while back. Was not expensive and he even told me what i needed.
 
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I used a structural engineer to locate and mark mine a while back. Was not expensive and he even told me what i needed.
Theyre charging me $700 at least to send in a letter with the inspection included, are you sure you didnt use a civil engineer? Im guessing they'll charge around the same though... who did you hire? What did you look up on google? Do you remember the company name or specific job title?
 

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Theyre charging me $700 at least to send in a letter with the inspection included, are you sure you didnt use a civil engineer? Im guessing they'll charge around the same though... who did you hire? What did you look up on google? Do you remember the company name or specific job title?
I found mine in my local yellow pages and an architectural firm with what was stated as structural.
This was about 5 years ago and I paid $240
Price may depend on region. Im in a small city in WI and not a large area/city
 
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Makubex

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I found mine in my local yellow pages and an architectural firm with what was stated as structural.
This was about 5 years ago and I paid $240
Price may depend on region. Im in a small city in WI and not a large area/city
What size was your tank? Im going to buy a hq stud finder @RocketEngineer can you take a look at my 2 posted videos I am trying to find out if those are load bearing walls
 

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If you put the tank against the red wall, you will be fine. The joists rest on top of it and they are perpendicular to the wall and your tank. I don't think you really want a tank in front of a window anyway.
 

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RocketEngineer

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What size was your tank? Im going to buy a hq stud finder @RocketEngineer can you take a look at my 2 posted videos I am trying to find out if those are load bearing walls
Typically, they span the narrow direction in a house. So in a ranch, they go front-back. In a bungalow style in the city, they are more likely to go side-side. If you can access the basement/crawl space, they should be visible. Alternatively, go look in the attic as they normally run the same way as the roof trusses or ceiling joists.
 
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Typically, they span the narrow direction in a house. So in a ranch, they go front-back. In a bungalow style in the city, they are more likely to go side-side. If you can access the basement/crawl space, they should be visible. Alternatively, go look in the attic as they normally run the same way as the roof trusses or ceiling joists.
Okay. I found all my load bearing walls, disregard that red wall/window wall my mom is concerned the sw will damage the piano/cellos there however I dont know if thats true or not... my last question would be if the joists are usually next to the load bearing walls(or near by as I will place the tank 6" away from the wall) thanks everyone.. either way I can move the piano somewhere else but dont know where to put it as this first floor is almost filled up.
 
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Makubex

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@RocketEngineer this is the house im talking about do you think the joists run from front to back or side to side? It was built in 2004
 

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DCR

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If you are talking about the first floor, they are clearly visible from the video you took from the basement. Those long truss structures in the ceiling of the basement are your joists. I would not guess if you're considering the second floor.
 

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You want the tank sitting across all those beams not with the beams. If not possible you can always get a few of those jacks for the beams. I also don't see a problem with sitting the tank on the red wall. From what I could see in the vid that wall goes thru the whole house.
 

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DCR has it spot on. I would guess the second floor goes the same direction as that’s often the case but it’s more an educated guess. The videos won’t play for me so it’s just educated ramblings on my end. :cool:
 

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My understanding is that the live load limit determines the maximum load spread over the entire floor area. Ie. a 100 square ft floor should be able to comfortably take 4000 lbs.
If it was the other way around then the average human would be in trouble?
Actually we are saying the same thing on live load per square foot. Weight distribution is important to prevent a problem. Possible floor jacks or additional support in this situation might be prudent. Not sure what the floor joist can hold in the pictures and video shown here.

Video online with large party of people over loading residential floor causing a failure with resulting injuries. They overloaded the live load with the crowd on the floor.
 
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Actually we are saying the same thing on live load per square foot. Weight distribution is important to prevent a problem. Possible floor jacks or additional support in this situation might be prudent. Not sure what the floor joist can hold in the pictures and video shown here.

Video online with large party of people over loading residential floor causing a failure with resulting injuries. They overloaded the live load with the crowd on the floor.
I'm confused now. The live load rating is based on a uniform spread of the total load but this doesn't factor in the strength of beams and/or floorboards.
Using that method would mean an average human standing on one foot would have to weigh less than about 15 lbs to stay within limits?

Re. The party incident. That's easily done if you calculate the average human weight, multiplied by the number tightly packed in a room, probably doubled as a result of momentum by jumping up and down to music.
 
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Lowell Lemon

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I'm confused now. The live load rating is based on a uniform spread of the total load but this doesn't factor in the strength of beams and/or floorboards.
Using that method would mean an average human standing on one foot would have to weigh less than about 15 lbs to stay within limits?

Re. The party incident. That's easily done if you calculate the average human weight, multiplied by the number tightly packed in a room, probably doubled as a result of momentum by jumping up and down to music.
No since the load is transferred through the plywood subfloor or OSB to the floor joists. In our case the subfloor is often 3/4" tounge and groove glued and screwed/nailed to the joists. This would transfer weight over two joists since the spacing is 12" to 16 " centers for the joists. The static load from the subfloor is about 8lbs per square foot. So the joists are holding the live load and static load and are rated as such. You are never going to deflect the 3/4" subfloor with a human standing in any location on the floor. Overload the number of humans and the entire floor fails in the center of the longest span first as shown in the videos.

Dead load safety factor is 3 (120lbs psf) and live load is 6 (240lbs psf) in current practice from what I could find.
 
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Heres a vid to help visualize better, in the basement-the stand with the fish supplies is the front(where the windows are on the 2nd floor) the other side to the left is the bottom of the red wall, the red wall DIVIDES the other house nextdoor so I assume next to that red wall is a living room or a kitchen


In your videos, it is clear to see that the floor joists run perpendicular to the hardwood flooring strips in the piano room (as I would have guessed, but can't be sure based on flooring direction alone).

The best place for your 125g aquarium would be where the piano is currently in your picture, as it would span across several joists perpendicular to the joists. If you wanted extra security, you could add floor jacks in the basement utility room and put them under a beam (could be fabricated from construction lumber) that spans under the joists and directly under the front edge of the aquarium stand.

Loading on a floor for something like an aquarium against a wall is more complicated than average live load design limits with safety factor. If the aquarium is along a wall and perpendicular to the floor joists, about half the weight of the system will be directly supported by the foundation wall of the utility room and the other half of the weight will only be distributed within a couple feet from the support wall, so minimal moment on the beams (I can explain this engineering concept more if needed, but you don't really need to understand this point directly).

If you were placing the system in the middle of the room, it would be more likely to fail at the unsupported center of the floor joists between walls.

I need to find some sources about calculating loads on floors based on support locations, as I don't have them off-hand. I work as a civil engineer but do not have direct experience with residential or floor designs, so I have some relevant experience but also am missing the most relevant experience.

An aquarium will essentially be dead load rather than live load (such as people walking through) (Edit: just did more research, technically aquariums are considered live load, as dead load is only the structure itself; what I was referring to is the concept that the aquarium will be essentially constant weight rather than moving/changing loads such as people walking through), which makes a difference as does the distance of the load from the support walls. The standard "40 pounds per square foot" is not very applicable in your situation directly (or at a minimum causes confusion for non-engineers), as the load will be very close to a support wall and will be dead load weight rather than moving live load.

Okay. I found all my load bearing walls, disregard that red wall/window wall my mom is concerned the sw will damage the piano/cellos there however I dont know if thats true or not... my last question would be if the joists are usually next to the load bearing walls(or near by as I will place the tank 6" away from the wall) thanks everyone.. either way I can move the piano somewhere else but dont know where to put it as this first floor is almost filled up.
Saltwater specifically (as opposed to freshwater) is not a direct concern for the piano and cello unless they are close enough for water splash damage. An aquarium with freshwater or saltwater will increase the humidity in the room due to evaporation, so this would need to be taken into consideration for the piano and cello. Higher humidity is not usually as dangerous as low humidity for instruments, but ideal humidity may be difficult to maintain with an aquarium in the same room as the piano and cello.
The higher humidity may increase likelihood of mold/mildew issues as well that could form inside the piano or cello, but I have no first-hand experience on how significant such a concern should be.

It would likely be best to have the piano and cello in a different room than an aquarium.
 
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ryanjohn1

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The point about the water bed is a dam good point.
 

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Here is a link to an article about aquarium load estimation for further reading:
https://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article28.html

P.S. The article simplifies the concepts as much as reasonably possible, but there are still a lot of engineering concepts discussed that may be difficult to comprehend for a non-engineer...
 

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