How to Safely Dose LaCL

[CheifReeferNB]

How does one safely dose lanthanum chloride to a reef tank with tangs? I have a 200 gallon system with three tangs and a phosphate of 0.25ppm.

I have a spare dosing head I can use, but where do I put the line? I’ve read about using the skimmer or a fine micron sock, but I wanted to see if anyone had tips for safely using this stuff.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I do not believe there is sufficient information available on the mechanism of tang issues to say with certainty how to do it safely.

Approaches that folks take are very slow dosing into a skimmer, dosing into a filter sock or fleece roller, or just very dilute dosing.

It can be very hard to know what works and what does not when the incidence of a problem is fairly rare to begin with.

I am reluctant to use it for this reason.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

FWIW, my recommended range for phosphate is 0.06 to 0.3 ppm, so i would not be doing anything about your phosphate at 0.25 ppm.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randy’s-thoughts-on-nutrient-target-ranges.1087/

4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:

• Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
• Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
• Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
• Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.

 

[Curiousbranching]

My dosing pump has a slow-speed mode, and I keep the dosing tip directly above the sump water, right before it flows into the skimmer chamber. There was a time when I had to treat a phosphate leak from my old sandbed. I dosed up to 20-30ml daily into a total system volume of about 450L, and my tangs were completely fine with this method.

 

[v3v3]

This is what i did couple of years ago in my 300L reef. I reduced PO4 from 2.5 to 0.3 in 1 week, BUT the solution was very, very diluted (sorry but i dont remember the dilution) in 1L of RODI water and slowly dripping in a 5 (five) microns socks. I had at that time a adult Yellow Tang and no problems. The operation lasted for several weeks because i had PO4 in the rocks and when i stopped the dosing, the PO4 kept going up again and again.......

 

[allof fish]

Personally I would not use it. I have read forums where tangs have died because of it. I try to go more naturally to start. And .25 isn’t super high yet. Just focused on feeding, nutrient export and maybe adding a fuge or algae scrubber. If you feed a lot of frozen that contributes phosphates. For example I solely base that on my phosphate. If my phosphate gets to .1 or higher I rinse my food a bit more if it get a little low I don’t rinse

 

[BeanAnimal]

How does one safely dose lanthanum chloride to a reef tank with tangs?

My honest answer based on my fairly extensive personal experience is that you don't.

Plenty of people will give you advice otherwise. That is fine as well, based on their experience. If you decide to take it and move forward, I would suggest following the most conservative plan. Fine micron socks on the skimmer outflow, dosing into the skimmer body or intake. Be prepared for a mess to clean in the skimmer body and plumbing. High dilute over time vs smaller more concentrated does. Try to prevent free LaCl from entering the system by keeping the reaction in the skimmer body.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Following up on Beans comment… when an event is unusual to rare, knowing what contributes to it and what avoids it is very difficult to tease out since most people do get the issue regardless of what they do.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Following up on Beans comment… when an event is unusual to rare, knowing what contributes to it and what avoids it is very difficult to tease out since most people do get the issue regardless of what they do.

Thank you for adding that Randy. I have edited my post to state my intent more clearly, in alignment with your (always) better explanation.

 

[Laith]

When I do dose I dose into the overflow box which flows down into my rollermat. Never had an issue with my four tangs or any of the fish.

 

[Joe Rice]

Just to put some numbers to it:

According to the label, 6 drops of Phosphate Rx (lanthanum chloride) will reduce the phosphate level in 10 gallons of water by 0.5ppm.

So 1 drop will reduce the phosphate in 1 gallon by 0.83 ppm.

If you have a gallon of water in a bucket and the phosphate level is say, 0.6 ppm, one drop of Phosphate Rx will bring the level down to 0 and there will still be unreacted lanthanum chloride in that water.

This implies to me that if you drip undiluted Phosphate Rx into either a filter sock or a skimmer, it's almost certain that unreacted lanthanum chloride will be carried out into your sump where it will react with phosphate and the precipitate will then be sent back up to the tank. Exactly how much will depend on your particular phosphate level and the flow of water through your filter sock/skimmer.

My solution is to heavily dilute the Phosphate Rx - 10 drops in a liter of water, so about 1000 to 1 - and to dose that solution over a course of many hours. I use an IV bag and a 5 micron filter sock to do that.

 

[areefer01]

When I do dose I dose into the overflow box which flows down into my rollermat. Never had an issue with my four tangs or any of the fish.

As mentioned earlier, and discussed as far back as early 2000 when we started to use LC, we don't know why some hobbyist experience issues with fish and others don't. Seems the common trend is tangs in the Zebrasoma genus. Thus the cautionary notes.

I admit my use of LC with a Scopas tang has been perfectly fine. I couldn't say one way or the other why that is but maybe it is because I use LC in a more diluted ratio. Then again it very well may be blind luck /shrug.