How to successfully keep SPS Corals!

Discussion in 'General SPS Discussion' started by revhtree, Oct 3, 2011.

  1. Ghxst

    Ghxst Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Salty, Wouldn't a par of 300 in blues and led really be like 300 x 1.08 = 324? If so i just wanted to tell pdeihm
     
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  2. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Reef Squad

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    I'm afraid I don't follow.

    300 par is 300 no matter what color.

    Or Do you mean immersion correction.
     
  3. Robin Haselden

    Robin Haselden Turtle R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Very carefully... I did 1g weekly water changes in my 14g sps nano with red sea black bucket for a just over a month without killing anything. It mixes at around 11.5-12 alk. I have blue bucket now which should mix at 7.5, which is what I run in my tank.
     
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  4. Scott.h

    Scott.h Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Depending on how extreme the case you can dose hcl acid to match alk, and bubble it for a few hours prior to a water change. I used to. The smaller the water change the less significant.
     
  5. Ghxst

    Ghxst Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    I was reading an article you linked and there was a conversion factory for blue led, I'm thinking it was lumens now. So a blue led will get an accurate reading from a seneye for par?
     
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  6. Scott.h

    Scott.h Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    The more towards the 400 nanometer mark the more chance of the seneye undershooting the par of an led. That said for common purposes ballpark is close enough.
     
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  7. MrMichael

    MrMichael Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I switched to a salt, Red Sea Blue Bucket, that mixes to exactly my tank params. Makes my life simple.
     
  8. KJoFan

    KJoFan Well-Known Member Partner Member 2018

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    I still wonder if elevated nutrient levels are the culprit for my brown or green/brown sps. I implemented about a 1/3 dose of gfo for the last month and find perhaps it's just more detrimental in the end. Seems like it's hard to avoid falling and rising P levels (lowers with gfo but climbs when gfo exhausts). I'm wondering if that's more harmful in the end than a relatively constant nutrient level, even if elevated. I'm seeing a little recession or thinning of flesh on a lps maze piece and had one small branch of my red dragon rtn which I fragged off and hasn't gone any further, but the red dragon overall looks...rough. Both pieces have shown decline since the gfo addition, but I can't say it's directly related.

    So, I'm contemplating just keeping an eye on the major 3 (alk, ca, mg) and keeping them steady and waiting. GFO was turned off and NOPOX stopped a few days ago and I'm not testing N or P just because I probably don't want to know. :)

    OR my lighting just isn't what or where it needs to be to bring out color. In which case, my other option is move majority of sps to newly established tank (just completed cycle in the last 10ish days) with "better" lighting for sps (MH w/Reefbrites). Likely, nutrients are slightly elevated there as well, but the skimmer is skimming well and chaeto is growing at great rates.

    I did put a couple tester frags of sps in the new tank about 10 days ago and they're doing fine, but not necessarily a sudden overnight success, simply staying static.

    Any words of advice?
     
  9. Scott.h

    Scott.h Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    I'd suspect if you moved them to the new tank that would finish them off. Even when doing everything right in a new tank its hard on the corals.

    I really doubt lighting is the problem. When you say high nutrients, what are the numbers? Or what were they the last time you tested? Browning can equal high nutrients or lack of light too depending on the numbers.
     
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  10. KJoFan

    KJoFan Well-Known Member Partner Member 2018

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    Nitrates tend to be 5-10. When I started NOPOX they dipped to 0.5 so I backed off the dosage and they stayed steady around 2.5. Since I've quit they're back to 5-10. Seems like if I do a daily 1 mil dose of NOPOX they stay more in the 2.5 to 5 range which I'm ok with.

    Phosphates sit at 0.1-0.2 w/out running gfo. With gfo they dropped to 0.04-0.05. Once gfo was exhausted I tested 0.13, I changed out gfo and they dropped back to 0.05-0.07. This is the one I don't like bouncing around as I feel it's stressing things further.

    ETA: I stopped the 1 mil NOPOX as I see a small patch of cyano. A brown dusting of algae on the glass and some areas of sand has also increased over the past...7-10 days.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  11. EJReef

    EJReef Well-Known Member

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    The PUR is higher if it is blue. More PAR might not lead to better results if the PUR is lower.
     
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  12. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Reef Squad

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    A 5600k mh will grow coral well and some say better than a 20k. This we'll be because I think is not the color temtpature but simply because the globe emits more PUR.

    The original question was on par value. Par at 300 in blue only and 300 par in "white " was in reference to A number on a meter . Pur was not the question. I was quoting a question on The equasion that was appearanly on the immersion factor of a par meter.
     
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  13. Scott.h

    Scott.h Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    5-10 isn't terrible. I think maybe just a touch of nopox consistently would be ok. This is where using a small amount of gfo in a mesh bag verses a reactor would be good. A reactor is so efficient it would suck that po4 down fast, which you don't really want. Unfortunately it will take a fair amount of testing before you dial in that sweet spot. It sounds like you are close though. Just try to swing the water a little cleaner over the course of two weeks or so. Leave everything else the same for now. What's your alk?
     
  14. KJoFan

    KJoFan Well-Known Member Partner Member 2018

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    I agree. Nutrient levels aren't terrible, though I fear PO4 will or has climbed since turning off the gfo. I may pick up the 1 mil of nopox again, just seems to keep those nitrates in a more reasonable range. This is an IM40 tank, so maybe I can find a place to tuck a bag with a little gfo in it somewhere, I just don't like the yo-yo effect it seems to have when it's new vs exhausted. And I know the key is to replace before it's fully exhausted, but that can be easier said than done as well. The past few alk readings over the course of the last couple weeks have been at 8.4. Probably an OK level for the level of nutrients, but I'd probably want to bring that down 1 dKH if I can get nutrients down a little more.

    I stopped all two part dosing as alk wasn't being used, still isn't as far as testing shows. However, where the small branch of Red Dragon (and the one I accidentally broke off at the same time) I fragged off were have both healed over so..not all is lost. SPS don't show great color and most don't show great PE, but most show some encrusting and some have shown overall growth over the past couple months.

    Seems like new additions hold their color for a few weeks then slowly shift towards brown.
     
  15. EJReef

    EJReef Well-Known Member

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    One of the nicest SPS tanks I've seen has 40 ppm nitrate.
     
  16. Scott.h

    Scott.h Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    5 N .035 P and 8.4 dkh would be a great range to keep steady. I'd probably aim for that and give it a month. If it's still browning then I'd look at par levels

    Yes but there is more to it. One of mine runs 38 but I don't have browning issues or algae. Maturity, stability, acclimation, the way the corals absorb nutrients, and light intensity play a roll too.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
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  17. KJoFan

    KJoFan Well-Known Member Partner Member 2018

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    I always figure the issue is nutrients, but like mentioned some folks are running equal or higher levels of nutrients without issue. So, while I still would like to at least bring PO4 down some and keep it consistently down, I am wondering if light levels are just not quite right.

    I don't have a par meter but have done some readings with a lux meter. I think I'm getting close to adequate light overall, but most sps are frags on a rack along the side, and probably are not receiving the light they need. I've been fearful to move/place them on the rockwork though until they seem a bit healthier, but perhaps I'll need to look toward that avenue next.

    I also believe flow is adequate with 2xMP10's running on constant both at about 50%.

    However, all that being said, clearly something is not optimal based on sps appearance. LPS and softies all are fine though, of course. :)

    Ca has stayed around 400-410 consistently for awhile and Mg is always testing high at 1600 or better. Could high Mg be limiting color/growth?

    I should test nsw to see how it's mixing, otherwise I don't know why Mg insists on staying high. Tested with a Red Sea kit.
     
  18. MrMichael

    MrMichael Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Some salts run 1600 Mg and the Red Sea Mg test has a bad reputation for reading high. Borrowing a buddy's or LFS's salifert kit would be nice data point.
     
  19. KJoFan

    KJoFan Well-Known Member Partner Member 2018

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    Salt is Fritz, which I can't recall offhand what parameters on that are supposed to be. I don't put a ton of stock in any Mg test really, as I don't think any of them are super accurate. No "buddy" around to test and nearest LFS is over an hour away so...I'll just roll with it for now. If nothing else helps sps color then I'll worry more. I think on the spectrum of things that could be causing issues, Mg isn't as high as some others. :)
     
  20. mcarroll

    mcarroll Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    Very interesting to see all the data in one place!! :) BUT as Mark Twain said....there are lies, dang lies and then there's statistics, like averages. ;) It can be tricky to draw conclusions from them – even deceiving.

    I do think it's noteworthy how many near-zero entries there are for no3 and po4 on the r2r list and how many (comparatively) high-nutrient entries there are in the other list.

    It's also noteworthy how few conclusions were drawn in the article from the Paletta data. It seemed striking to me.

    I don't know what conclusions can be drawn and I know it would even more interesting to see a list replete with lighting and flow data. It would be really interesting if there was a more useful way to list flow than GPH which is a very aseptic number....but it's all we have.

    All I can add is that ever since GFO and carbon-dosing became ubiquitous in reefing I've been dubious of them. To put it simply, I just don't think you can turn a high-nutrient ecosystem into a low-nutrient ecosystem just by throwing in a little vinegar and rust. That would be equivalent to magic. :)

    Some related thoughts here:
     
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