Humblefish-...anyone..... Advice on treating Pink Margin Fairy Wrasse with Ich

TrishK

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We basically are trying to manage ich in our DT for the time being (didn't know that the tang we have always had was a carrier of it until we put a blue hippo in after quarantine and she got spots). Once the blue hippo got spots we tried the snake oil Kich Ich and turned our UV off....after doing that though a lot of the spots went away, our coral started suffering so after 5 weeks we quit the product and turned everything back on. Now Hippo has 4-5 new spots and our pink margin fairy wrasse has about 5-6. I was hoping the blue hippo would fight it off but I know everything time she gets spots and they drop they #'s increase in the tank making it harder for the other fish to fight it off. The Pink Margin had been covered before we started the Kich Ich and now I'm afraid he just can't stay in tank. We will be setting up a smaller 90 gallon of fish only in about a month or a little longer and could put him in that but I am worried about treating him for the ich first. I have used Coppersafe on a McCoskers and even though I did it very slowly he still ended up dying during treatment. What do you recommend (or anyone else) to treat the Pink Margin? I'm not sure what to do about the Hippo....We have the large Yellow Tang in copper now (21 days in) and had plans of putting him in the 90G.....the 90G will be too small for the Blue Hippo so what do we do about her? Is she going to eventually be able to fight it off no matter how large the numbers get? She's been in the DT for almost 2 months probably and is a fast little sucker I can't imagine trying to catch her and all those wrasses. (We have the pink margin, ruby head, carpenter and yellowfin flashers) The two flashers look like they have a whitish film on them but the lights did just come on about a hour ago and it doesn't look like ich spots yet though they did have some the first time around before the Kich Ich. Our DT is a 180 with a ton of rockwork. Other fish are a lawn mower blenny, yellow watchman goby, Fire Goby, Pistol shrimp, 3 PJ cardinals, royal gramma, 2 cleaner shrimp and about 350 or more various snails. Please advise! We have gone fallow before but only when we had 2 fish left after a case of velvet (the same yellow tang and the same yellow goby)...I never treated them because they never showed signs of illness then since learned they can carry and not show symptoms so I really wish I had treated them back then because we wouldn't have the ich right now (Thinking maybe it wasn't originally velvet but bad case of ich, this was before we had the UV). Anyway, any advice is appreciated. Thanks! Sorry so long!


ETA: I do feed very healthy diet....frozen 2x a day that includes Rods frozen mix, brine, spirula brine, mysis, plankton, tank full of copepods and Tig pods (red ruby wrasse is fat and very healthy looking others are a little younger) ON pellets, algae sheets, sea veggies, all soaked in garlic and glucan and vitamins. Also add stress coat to the water and garlic (20 drops for 200G) We have a large UV, GFO and carbon, we siphon almost nightly.
 
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revhtree

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Hello let me tag our Fish disease expert @Jay Hemdal for you!
 

Jay Hemdal

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We basically are trying to manage ich in our DT for the time being (didn't know that the tang we have always had was a carrier of it until we put a blue hippo in after quarantine and she got spots). Once the blue hippo got spots we tried the snake oil Kich Ich and turned our UV off....after doing that though a lot of the spots went away, our coral started suffering so after 5 weeks we quit the product and turned everything back on. Now Hippo has 4-5 new spots and our pink margin fairy wrasse has about 5-6. I was hoping the blue hippo would fight it off but I know everything time she gets spots and they drop they #'s increase in the tank making it harder for the other fish to fight it off. The Pink Margin had been covered before we started the Kich Ich and now I'm afraid he just can't stay in tank. We will be setting up a smaller 90 gallon of fish only in about a month or a little longer and could put him in that but I am worried about treating him for the ich first. I have used Coppersafe on a McCoskers and even though I did it very slowly he still ended up dying during treatment. What do you recommend (or anyone else) to treat the Pink Margin? I'm not sure what to do about the Hippo....We have the large Yellow Tang in copper now (21 days in) and had plans of putting him in the 90G.....the 90G will be too small for the Blue Hippo so what do we do about her? Is she going to eventually be able to fight it off no matter how large the numbers get? She's been in the DT for almost 2 months probably and is a fast little sucker I can't imagine trying to catch her and all those wrasses. (We have the pink margin, ruby head, carpenter and yellowfin flashers) The two flashers look like they have a whitish film on them but the lights did just come on about a hour ago and it doesn't look like ich spots yet though they did have some the first time around before the Kich Ich. Our DT is a 180 with a ton of rockwork. Other fish are a lawn mower blenny, yellow watchman goby, Fire Goby, Pistol shrimp, 3 PJ cardinals, royal gramma, 2 cleaner shrimp and about 350 or more various snails. Please advise! We have gone fallow before but only when we had 2 fish left after a case of velvet (the same yellow tang and the same yellow goby)...I never treated them because they never showed signs of illness then since learned they can carry and not show symptoms so I really wish I had treated them back then because we wouldn't have the ich right now (Thinking maybe it wasn't originally velvet but bad case of ich, this was before we had the UV). Anyway, any advice is appreciated. Thanks! Sorry so long!


ETA: I do feed very healthy diet....frozen 2x a day that includes Rods frozen mix, brine, spirula brine, mysis, plankton, tank full of copepods and Tig pods (red ruby wrasse is fat and very healthy looking others are a little younger) ON pellets, algae sheets, sea veggies, all soaked in garlic and glucan and vitamins. Also add stress coat to the water and garlic (20 drops for 200G) We have a large UV, GFO and carbon, we siphon almost nightly.

Well, there is a lot to break down here. I'm not a great proponent for "reef safe meds", as you said, they are mostly snake oil. There is a fundamental issue with selectively killing protozoan parasites but not harming corals. Prazi is the only med that I would use with inverts (and of course, that doesn't help with ich).

Just curious - do the tang and wrasse ever posture in front of the cleaner shrimp (possibly at night)? They won't cure ich, but they might help keep it limited.

Why did you turn the UV off, is it contraindicated with Kick Ich? How long since you changed the bulb on the uv?

If the wrasse isn't too compromised, it should handle Coppersafe just fine. Can you set up a small QT? Of course, that still leaves you with the issue of trying to catch the affected fish out.

I'll leave it to others to chime in about ich management methods that have worked for them.

Jay
 

Bpfor3

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Well, ill Chime in. Dealing with same issue. Jay has commented for me as well. So basically, i religiously QT'd my fish, but somehow ich got in my system. Dealing with a few spots here and there, but i have tangs so i am doing all i can. Leaving my UV on 24/7. Doing more regular water changes to get free swimmers. Feeding unfrozen food, such as claims black worms, etc., and feeding alot. Also started dosing peroxide. i have a full blown mixed reef, so being very cafeful. Go to Humblefish forum and read and read. From what i have seen that is all you can do. As far as the over counter reef safe stuff sold in bottles, i think its snake oil. Good luck. We need it.
 

revhtree

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Well, there is a lot to break down here. I'm not a great proponent for "reef safe meds", as you said, they are mostly snake oil. There is a fundamental issue with selectively killing protozoan parasites but not harming corals. Prazi is the only med that I would use with inverts (and of course, that doesn't help with ich).

Just curious - do the tang and wrasse ever posture in front of the cleaner shrimp (possibly at night)? They won't cure ich, but they might help keep it limited.

Why did you turn the UV off, is it contraindicated with Kick Ich? How long since you changed the bulb on the uv?

If the wrasse isn't too compromised, it should handle Coppersafe just fine. Can you set up a small QT? Of course, that still leaves you with the issue of trying to catch the affected fish out.

I'll leave it to others to chime in about ich management methods that have worked for them.

Jay
Well, ill Chime in. Dealing with same issue. Jay has commented for me as well. So basically, i religiously QT'd my fish, but somehow ich got in my system. Dealing with a few spots here and there, but i have tangs so i am doing all i can. Leaving my UV on 24/7. Doing more regular water changes to get free swimmers. Feeding unfrozen food, such as claims black worms, etc., and feeding alot. Also started dosing peroxide. i have a full blown mixed reef, so being very cafeful. Go to Humblefish forum and read and read. From what i have seen that is all you can do. As far as the over counter reef safe stuff sold in bottles, i think its snake oil. Good luck. We need it.

Thanks guys for chiming in and helping!
 

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I have added fish with both Ich and Velvet into my system and haven't had an issue with either. I think your diet is fine, and is actually much more diverse than what I feed.
I also think coral play an important role in an ich managed system. Free swimming ich fall into a size range that would qualify as food for many different coral types. I haven't seen anything to suggest that coral are selective in what they eat in that size range.
I suspect this is why reefers with more mature tanks seem to rarely have issues with parasites but it is a very common issue with newer systems and FOWLR's.
 
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TrishK

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Well, there is a lot to break down here. I'm not a great proponent for "reef safe meds", as you said, they are mostly snake oil. There is a fundamental issue with selectively killing protozoan parasites but not harming corals. Prazi is the only med that I would use with inverts (and of course, that doesn't help with ich).

Just curious - do the tang and wrasse ever posture in front of the cleaner shrimp (possibly at night)? They won't cure ich, but they might help keep it limited.

Why did you turn the UV off, is it contraindicated with Kick Ich? How long since you changed the bulb on the uv?

If the wrasse isn't too compromised, it should handle Coppersafe just fine. Can you set up a small QT? Of course, that still leaves you with the issue of trying to catch the affected fish out.

I'll leave it to others to chime in about ich management methods that have worked for them.

Jay

We turned the UV off because after speaking with Reef Rally they said that UV's will make the medication useless...that it would destroy what's in it that works. They told us a story of a large store that had a HUGE reef tank with hundreds of fish and case of ich and that by using 3oz. for every 32 gallons they eventually got rid of the ich.....it was working for us but I think the downfall for us was it said to turn off your carbon but you could run GFO where my husband shut the whole media down and wasn't running GFO and being newer to the hobby didn't realize this was affecting the phosphate levels so really I believe the coral were hurting because phoshates were too high. They are back to .07 now and could be why the fish have broken out in spots again because of going from .25 to .07 in just a matter of days. The UV is pretty new....4 months old maybe so I think the bulbs are probably still good....we do run it 24/7 though.

I have seen the cleaner shrimp picks at the Dory when she sits still long enough but I have read they aren't really eating the parasite but rather the scabs the parasites leave after burrowing in.....but I don't really know.

I've read a lot of humblefish's suggestions and after losing a McCosker's wrasse to coppersafe I would feel better doing the TTM. I'm going to observe for about a week and see how things progress. If we need to treat I think I can scoop a large portion of the fish up in a huge net all at once when I go to feed them. I feed frozen 2-3 days and they swim all in one spot together when the food goes in, with hubby with a net we may be able to get the more difficult ones out....hoping it doesn't come to that because although we have 4 QT tanks they all fish in them already! ugh!
 

revhtree

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also think coral play an important role in an ich managed system. Free swimming ich fall into a size range that would qualify as food for many different coral types. I haven't seen anything to suggest that coral are selective in what they eat in that size range.
I suspect this is why reefers with more mature tanks seem to rarely have issues with parasites but it is a very common issue with newer systems and FOWLR's.

Very interesting! QOTD coming up!
 

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We basically are trying to manage ich in our DT for the time being (didn't know that the tang we have always had was a carrier of it until we put a blue hippo in after quarantine and she got spots). Once the blue hippo got spots we tried the snake oil Kich Ich and turned our UV off....after doing that though a lot of the spots went away, our coral started suffering so after 5 weeks we quit the product and turned everything back on. Now Hippo has 4-5 new spots and our pink margin fairy wrasse has about 5-6. I was hoping the blue hippo would fight it off but I know everything time she gets spots and they drop they #'s increase in the tank making it harder for the other fish to fight it off. The Pink Margin had been covered before we started the Kich Ich and now I'm afraid he just can't stay in tank. We will be setting up a smaller 90 gallon of fish only in about a month or a little longer and could put him in that but I am worried about treating him for the ich first. I have used Coppersafe on a McCoskers and even though I did it very slowly he still ended up dying during treatment. What do you recommend (or anyone else) to treat the Pink Margin? I'm not sure what to do about the Hippo....We have the large Yellow Tang in copper now (21 days in) and had plans of putting him in the 90G.....the 90G will be too small for the Blue Hippo so what do we do about her? Is she going to eventually be able to fight it off no matter how large the numbers get? She's been in the DT for almost 2 months probably and is a fast little sucker I can't imagine trying to catch her and all those wrasses. (We have the pink margin, ruby head, carpenter and yellowfin flashers) The two flashers look like they have a whitish film on them but the lights did just come on about a hour ago and it doesn't look like ich spots yet though they did have some the first time around before the Kich Ich. Our DT is a 180 with a ton of rockwork. Other fish are a lawn mower blenny, yellow watchman goby, Fire Goby, Pistol shrimp, 3 PJ cardinals, royal gramma, 2 cleaner shrimp and about 350 or more various snails. Please advise! We have gone fallow before but only when we had 2 fish left after a case of velvet (the same yellow tang and the same yellow goby)...I never treated them because they never showed signs of illness then since learned they can carry and not show symptoms so I really wish I had treated them back then because we wouldn't have the ich right now (Thinking maybe it wasn't originally velvet but bad case of ich, this was before we had the UV). Anyway, any advice is appreciated. Thanks! Sorry so long!


ETA: I do feed very healthy diet....frozen 2x a day that includes Rods frozen mix, brine, spirula brine, mysis, plankton, tank full of copepods and Tig pods (red ruby wrasse is fat and very healthy looking others are a little younger) ON pellets, algae sheets, sea veggies, all soaked in garlic and glucan and vitamins. Also add stress coat to the water and garlic (20 drops for 200G) We have a large UV, GFO and carbon, we siphon almost nightly.

I just put a batch of fish including two Wrasse (one a longfin fairy) through TTM with two peroxide baths 6 days apart and they all did fantastic! A little stress with each move ofc due to catching them but they recover quickly and never stopped eating.

It's more work than copper but it has always done well for me with delicate fish.
MVIMG_20200806_121600.jpg
 
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TrishK

TrishK

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Well, ill Chime in. Dealing with same issue. Jay has commented for me as well. So basically, i religiously QT'd my fish, but somehow ich got in my system. Dealing with a few spots here and there, but i have tangs so i am doing all i can. Leaving my UV on 24/7. Doing more regular water changes to get free swimmers. Feeding unfrozen food, such as claims black worms, etc., and feeding alot. Also started dosing peroxide. i have a full blown mixed reef, so being very cafeful. Go to Humblefish forum and read and read. From what i have seen that is all you can do. As far as the over counter reef safe stuff sold in bottles, i think its snake oil. Good luck. We need it.

Yes our tank is a mixed reef too. Do you think the peroxide helps? How big is your tank and how much do you dose? Ours is 180. Can I ask where you buy your black worms? Do most fish like black worms?
 

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Yes our tank is a mixed reef too. Do you think the peroxide helps? How big is your tank and how much do you dose? Ours is 180. Can I ask where you buy your black worms? Do most fish like black worms?
Its really too early to tell with the peroxide. My outbreak started 12 days ago. I have a 150 gallon tank, 20 gallon refugium and probably 20 gallons in the sump, so I am assuming 170 gallons total after rock displacement. I think the prevailing thought is 1ml/8 gallons every 8 hours is sufficient and it won't hurt the reef. Do that for 30 days. recently some have pushed it to 1ml/5 gallons. I am doing the 8 and see how it goes. you need to use a dosing pump, bc you can't miss a dose. There is a whole thread on the ins and outs of peroxide on Humblefish's website. Some people say it works. Others have no luck. It seems to be helping me.

I get the worms at a local pet store. My fish eat it, but they eat pretty much anything anyway. You can also try fresh clams from a grocery store.

Here is a video of my tank from 3 days ago.



Good luck!
 

Plzpizza

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I would just catch the fish and do TTM then fallow for 76 days
 

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