hydrogen peroxide raise phosphate level?

[ducki]

I have green Cyano/algae problem after dosing Vibrant. All over sand bed and rock.

my phosphate level used to read 0.05-0.07 and nitrate 20ppm after i stop Vibrant dosing.
i have been dosing Hydrogen Peroxide 10ml/10g for 150g tank, so 15ml morning and night. Today is my 14th day dosing hydrogen peroxide, cyano or algae on sand/rock has not make a dent at all.

what i have noticed was, 7 days into hydrogen peroxide dosing, my phosphate has increased from 0.07ppm to 0.36ppm. Nitrate 5ppm.
I have just tested again today (7 days later), and phosphate had jumped to 0.97ppm while nitrate remain 5ppm. test done on Hanna checker for phosphate and Salifert for Nitrate.

I have not done any water change during hydrogen peroxide dosing. My speculation is that hydrogen peroxide must be stopping algae from growing, hence phosphate remains in the water column?

Now, do i stop after 14 days dosing or continue on... and see where this will lead me to.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not a big fan of hydrogen peroxide dosing, and i do not know if the phosphate relates to the dosing or not.

But if it is killing anything, you might expect a rise in nutrients.

 

[Matt Carden]

I think your both right. How old is your tank? I agree with Randy about dosing Hydrogen peroxide. The best way to deal with algae is to relocate it. Macro in refugium or ATS.

 

[ducki]

Tank has been up for approx 2years, started with 100% dry rocks.

I don’t have space for refugium or ats.

 

[Dan_P]

I have green Cyano/algae problem after dosing Vibrant. All over sand bed and rock.

my phosphate level used to read 0.05-0.07 and nitrate 20ppm after i stop Vibrant dosing.
i have been dosing Hydrogen Peroxide 10ml/10g for 150g tank, so 15ml morning and night. Today is my 14th day dosing hydrogen peroxide, cyano or algae on sand/rock has not make a dent at all.

what i have noticed was, 7 days into hydrogen peroxide dosing, my phosphate has increased from 0.07ppm to 0.36ppm. Nitrate 5ppm.
I have just tested again today (7 days later), and phosphate had jumped to 0.97ppm while nitrate remain 5ppm. test done on Hanna checker for phosphate and Salifert for Nitrate.

I have not done any water change during hydrogen peroxide dosing. My speculation is that hydrogen peroxide must be stopping algae from growing, hence phosphate remains in the water column?

Now, do i stop after 14 days dosing or continue on... and see where this will lead me to.

Cyanobacteria is likely a result of Vibrant killing algae and releasing nutrients. @taricha provided a nice demonstration of this effect. The increase in phosphate can occur with WasteAway and I think Vibrant as well. @taricha will set the record straight.

H2O2 is a wild card. It might be a placebo or it might be doing something. I think @brandon429 can clarify when and where it might work. In my system, H2O2 is rapidly consumed and I have no evidence that it does anything. Lab experiments pending though.

 

[taricha]

Vibrant in my observation does 3 things that could increase nutrients:
One, it halts the growth of algae used for nutrient export.
Two, in my tank at least, the clarifying of water went hand in hand with a reduction of skimmate. This means that less is exported and more is on surfaces.
Three, it kills algal material and this material settles on surfaces.

In my tank this mostly didn't show up in the form of testable nutrients, but instead in the growth of other nuisance, cyano etc.

Maybe your peroxide is doing something similar, both halting uptake from growth (of something) and releasing nutrients from killed organisms.
But if that were so, I'd expect it to be a more common observation. Hmm....

 

[Carol Coral]

[QUOTE = "ducki, post: 6714283, membro: 96593"]
Tenho um problema verde de ciano / algas após a administração de Vibrant. Por todo o leito de areia e rocha.

meu nível de fosfato costumava ler 0,05-0,07 e nitrato 20ppm depois que eu parei a dosagem de Vibrant.
Eu tenho dosado 10ml / 10g de peróxido de hidrogênio para o tanque de 150g, então 15ml de manhã e à noite. Hoje é o meu 14º dia em que a administração de peróxido de hidrogênio, ciano ou algas na areia / rocha não causou nenhum estrago.

o que eu notei foi que, 7 dias após a dosagem de peróxido de hidrogênio, meu fosfato aumentou de 0,07ppm para 0,36ppm. Nitrato 5ppm.
Acabei de testar novamente hoje (7 dias depois) e o fosfato saltou para 0,97ppm, enquanto o nitrato permanece em 5ppm. teste realizado no verificador Hanna para fosfato e Salifert para nitrato.

Eu não fiz nenhuma mudança de água durante a dosagem de peróxido de hidrogênio. Minha especulação é que o peróxido de hidrogênio deve impedir o crescimento de algas, portanto o fosfato permanece na coluna d'água?

Agora, paro após 14 dias de administração ou continuo ... e vejo aonde isso me levará.
[/CITAR]

Eu pararia! Principalmente se tiver Acroporas.

 

[ducki]

Vibrant in my observation does 3 things that could increase nutrients:
One, it halts the growth of algae used for nutrient export.
Two, in my tank at least, the clarifying of water went hand in hand with a reduction of skimmate. This means that less is exported and more is on surfaces.
Three, it kills algal material and this material settles on surfaces.

In my tank this mostly didn't show up in the form of testable nutrients, but instead in the growth of other nuisance, cyano etc.

Maybe your peroxide is doing something similar, both halting uptake from growth (of something) and releasing nutrients from killed organisms.
But if that were so, I'd expect it to be a more common observation. Hmm....

I agree with your observation, I experienced similar when dosing Vibrant but I had more skimmate than less during Vibrant. I barely have to clean the glass nowadays as well. I am planning to keep dosing hydrogen peroxide until the end of this week to see where this ends, whether phosphate reading further increase or not. I have searched but cannot find anyone in similar situation where phosphate reading skyrocket after dosing hydrogen peroxide. My plan in mind is to take phosphate reading at the end of this week, then stop dosing H2O2 for next 2 weeks and check phosphate reading again.

Just to be clear, I don't have a refugium or ATS but I have scoria/volcanic rocks which I run airstone for aeration 12hrs on/off + 1L of matrix and JNS CO3 skimmer in the sump. My learning was the scoria with aeration on should be helping to reduce phosphate level where aeration off reduce nitrates.

I don't have any sps, only a couple of euphyllia frags which is not effected, they are more effected by the green cyano growing on the skeleton. Tank currently have 2 clownfish, 1 anthias and 1 melanurus wrasse.

 

[taricha]

I experienced similar when dosing Vibrant but I had more skimmate than less during Vibrant

Thanks for this. I need to be more precise about that observation to see if I can untangle other variables.

 

[ducki]

just an update, phosphate has dropped to 0.11ppm and nitrate 7ppm.

i have no idea what or how it dropped so quick. I have stopped peroxide dosing as of now.

 

[Marco Matozo]

[QUOTE = "ducki, post: 6714283, membro: 96593"]
Tenho um problema verde de ciano / algas após a administração de Vibrant. Por todo o leito de areia e rocha.

meu nível de fosfato costumava ler 0,05-0,07 e nitrato 20ppm depois que eu parei a dosagem de Vibrant.
Eu tenho dosado 10ml / 10g de peróxido de hidrogênio para o tanque de 150g, então 15ml de manhã e à noite. Hoje é o meu 14º dia em que a administração de peróxido de hidrogênio, ciano ou algas na areia / rocha não causou nenhum estrago.

o que eu notei foi que, 7 dias após a dosagem de peróxido de hidrogênio, meu fosfato aumentou de 0,07ppm para 0,36ppm. Nitrato 5ppm.
Acabei de testar novamente hoje (7 dias depois) e o fosfato salgado por 0,97ppm, enquanto o nitrato permanece em 5ppm. teste realizado no verificador Hanna para fosfato e Salifert para nitrato.

Eu não fiz nenhuma mudança de água durante a dosagem de hidrogênio. Minha especulação é que o hidrogênio deve impedir o crescimento de algas, portanto, o que fica na coluna d'água?

Agora, após 14 dias de administração ou continuação ... e vejo aonde isso me levará.
[/ CITAR]

Eu pararia! Principalmente se tiver Acroporas.
[/CITAR]

Nitrato aumentou, devido a morte das algas ele voltou para a agua.

 

[metalruebe]

Just for the record, if someone looks for answers.

Comercially available hydrogen peroxide ist mostly stabilized with phosphoric acid, therefore it will indeed raise your phosphate levels, simply because you add it in this way directly.

There are other ways of stabilizing hydrogen peroxide, but you have to look closely into the ingredients.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just for the record, if someone looks for answers.

Comercially available hydrogen peroxide ist mostly stabilized with phosphoric acid, therefore it will indeed raise your phosphate levels, simply because you add it in this way directly.

There are other ways of stabilizing hydrogen peroxide, but you have to look closely into the ingredients.

Why do you believe that most peroxide solutions are stabilized with phosphate?

A variety of stabilizers are used, and many do not specify the composition:

What are H2O2 stabilizers and will they affect my application - USP Technologies

Hydrogen peroxide dissacociation stabilizers and will they affect my application

www.usptechnologies.com

 

[metalruebe]

Why do you believe that most peroxide solutions are stabilized with phosphate?

A variety of stabilizers are used, and many do not specify the composition:

What are H2O2 stabilizers and will they affect my application - USP Technologies

Hydrogen peroxide dissacociation stabilizers and will they affect my application

www.usptechnologies.com

Maybe its Europe/Germany specific, i'm a pharmacist here and realized that most available solutions are stabilized with phosphoric acid. Solutions with other stabilizers are much more rare, if people get their generic peroxide here in the pharmacy, they could run into trouble, if ingredients aren't checked properly. But you're right, i'm not too familiar with availability in the US.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Maybe its Europe/Germany specific, i'm a pharmacist here and realized that most available solutions are stabilized with phosphoric acid. Solutions with other stabilizers are much more rare, if people get their generic peroxide here in the pharmacy, they could run into trouble, if ingredients aren't checked properly. But you're right, i'm not too familiar with availability in the US.

Actually, in the US it's not commonly possible to check ingredients in 3% peroxide solutions.

This is what most say:

"Active Ingredient: Hydrogen Peroxide (Stabilized) (3%). Inactive Ingredient: Purified Water."

for example:

Hydrogen Peroxide by CVS Health

Hydrogen Peroxide Solution by CVS Health at CVS Pharmacy. ✓ FREE shipping on qualifying orders!

www.cvs.com

 

[taricha]

Yep. Of three sources I've run across here in US, only one had info on the stabilizer - acetanilide.

 

[metalruebe]

Actually, in the US it's not commonly possible to check ingredients in 3% peroxide solutions.

This is what most say:

"Active Ingredient: Hydrogen Peroxide (Stabilized) (3%). Inactive Ingredient: Purified Water."

for example:

Hydrogen Peroxide by CVS Health

Hydrogen Peroxide Solution by CVS Health at CVS Pharmacy. ✓ FREE shipping on qualifying orders!

www.cvs.com

Wow, that sucks. But theoretically you could go in a pharmacy and they would mix you a solution with known parameters? Or call the manufacturer and ask for info.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Wow, that sucks. But theoretically you could go in a pharmacy and they would mix you a solution with known parameters? Or call the manufacturer and ask for info.

I don’t know if they can find out, but maybe.

 

[Rick's Reviews]

I have 3% and 6% hydrogen peroxide, just for my aquriam, I use 3% just to dip and remove unwanted algae from corals, there's nothing special about it except it's a great mouthwash and great to remove algae.
I would not use in my aquriam, I only clean outside my aquriam

 

[Jason Kelsey]

I have been dosing H2O2 for 6 days now and my phosphate lvl has gone from .03 to .4