Hydros Maven is Delayed

[JeffB418]

There was a video a while back where they talked about reagents. I remember seeing it, but I can’t find it.

Yeah Carlos has mentioned I remember but not sure where. When it comes down to it, a machine that uses a diluted acid reagent with a ph probe will most certainly be cheaper than a unit that uses a reagent that’s acid plus an ph indicator. The maven uses an ph indicator reagent since all tests use a photo eye for colormeteric measurement.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I think they are using reagents similar to what Hanna is using and are using light and color instead of pH reading on the Maven. I could be wrong but from what I have seen it seems to be that type of system. I do not have one or have I seen one in person yet.

It is colorimetric, but that doesn't mean that the reagents really cost that much more to source and fabricate, KH is a simple dyed acid reagent. Pennies per liter to produce sold for dollars per ml.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yeah Carlos has mentioned I remember but not sure where. When it comes down to it, a machine that uses a diluted acid reagent with a ph probe will most certainly be cheaper than a unit that uses a reagent that’s acid plus an ph indicator. The maven uses an ph indicator reagent since all tests use a photo eye for colormeteric measurement.

The difference in cost is insignificant for a kH test. Highly diluted acid and dye, maybe bromophenol blue. The "cost" is whatever margin they decide to add, the plastic reagent bottle and label costs far more than the reagent in it.

 

[JeffB418]

The difference in cost is insignificant for a kH test. Highly diluted acid and dye, maybe bromophenol blue. The "cost" is whatever margin they decide to add, the plastic reagent bottle and label costs far more than the reagent in it.

Yup.

 

[n2585722]

The difference in cost is insignificant for a kH test. Highly diluted acid and dye, maybe bromophenol blue. The "cost" is whatever margin they decide to add, the plastic reagent bottle and label costs far more than the reagent in it.

It is not only that but the Maven test water will have to be discarded and replaced. The iV test you can put the water used to test back in the tank unless it is a small tank.

 

[BeanAnimal]

It is not only that but the Maven test water will have to be discarded and replaced. The iV test you can put the water used to test back in the tank unless it is a small tank.

That is not a response that makes any sense or can be taken seriously at any level.

1 - They are the same pH based test, one just has a visual pH indicator added.

The insanely low concentration of indicator dye is likely harmless even long term if the test water were returned to the tank, just as with probe based test.

So let's get to your argument:

Even if the Maven dumps the test water, so what?

$100 for 200 gallons of saltwater is $0.50 per gallon.

Let’s say a complete test cycle somehow wastes an insane 500 mL per day. Lets round that up to 1 gallon per week.

If you do water changes, that water is not “wasted.” It is simply part of the water change you were already going to do. On a 20-gallon tank changing 20% per month, you would just change roughly 3.5 gallons instead of 4 because the tester already removed the other half gallon. So even on a tiny tank, it is irrelevant.

No water changes? Let's talk real-world numbers, maybe 200 mL or so of water per week, testing several times per day. Let's round it up to 500 mL just for fun. That is maybe 10 cents per week of water if you run multiple tests per day, a fraction of the reagent cost. But what about the amortized cost of the tester and the non-reagent consumables, such as tubing replacements?

Let's call the Maven $1,500 in the door, tax, shipping and all. Let's amortize its cost over 3 years of testing. Five parameters 3 times per day is 15 tests per day. Over 3 years, that is about 10 cents per test in hardware cost. One series of tests per day, that goes to about 30 cents per test, and you want to dither about the cost of saltwater being returned vs. wasted? It's not a serious point.

 

[JeffB418]

That is not a response that makes any sense or can be taken seriously at any level.

1 - They are the same pH based test, one just has a visual pH indicator added.

The insanely low concentration of indicator dye is likely harmless even long term if the test water were returned to the tank, just as with probe based test.

So let's get to your argument:

Even if the Maven dumps the test water, so what?

$100 for 200 gallons of saltwater is $0.50 per gallon.

Let’s say a complete test cycle somehow wastes an insane 500 mL per day. Lets round that up to 1 gallon per week.

If you do water changes, that water is not “wasted.” It is simply part of the water change you were already going to do. On a 20-gallon tank changing 20% per month, you would just change roughly 3.5 gallons instead of 4 because the tester already removed the other half gallon. So even on a tiny tank, it is irrelevant.

No water changes? Let's talk real-world numbers, maybe 200 mL or so of water per week, testing several times per day. Let's round it up to 500 mL just for fun. That is maybe 10 cents per week of water if you run multiple tests per day, a fraction of the reagent cost. But what about the amortized cost of the tester and the non-reagent consumables, such as tubing replacements?

Let's call the Maven $1,500 in the door, tax, shipping and all. Let's amortize its cost over 3 years of testing. Five parameters 3 times per day is 15 tests per day. Over 3 years, that is about 10 cents per test in hardware cost. One series of tests per day, that goes to about 30 cents per test, and you want to dither about the cost of saltwater being returned vs. wasted? It's not a serious point.

Yup.

 

[n2585722]

That is not a response that makes any sense or can be taken seriously at any level.

1 - They are the same pH based test, one just has a visual pH indicator added.

The insanely low concentration of indicator dye is likely harmless even long term if the test water were returned to the tank, just as with probe based test.

So let's get to your argument:

Even if the Maven dumps the test water, so what?

$100 for 200 gallons of saltwater is $0.50 per gallon.

Let’s say a complete test cycle somehow wastes an insane 500 mL per day. Lets round that up to 1 gallon per week.

If you do water changes, that water is not “wasted.” It is simply part of the water change you were already going to do. On a 20-gallon tank changing 20% per month, you would just change roughly 3.5 gallons instead of 4 because the tester already removed the other half gallon. So even on a tiny tank, it is irrelevant.

No water changes? Let's talk real-world numbers, maybe 200 mL or so of water per week, testing several times per day. Let's round it up to 500 mL just for fun. That is maybe 10 cents per week of water if you run multiple tests per day, a fraction of the reagent cost. But what about the amortized cost of the tester and the non-reagent consumables, such as tubing replacements?

Let's call the Maven $1,500 in the door, tax, shipping and all. Let's amortize its cost over 3 years of testing. Five parameters 3 times per day is 15 tests per day. Over 3 years, that is about 10 cents per test in hardware cost. One series of tests per day, that goes to about 30 cents per test, and you want to dither about the cost of saltwater being returned vs. wasted? It's not a serious point.

unless you can figure out how to replace automatically then you would need to do it manually. It can probably be done automatically but it would require quite a bit doing it in the first place but that is what I would do though. Someone will probably come up with a way to do that for people that would need some help figuring it out. You would need to do that with the other test that the Maven does anyway. The Hanna reagent for alkalinity would be too expensive for me to do the test 4 times a day like I do with the iV. The Hanna reagent is $19 for 25 test So that would add up to $3.04 a day doing 4 Hanna test a day. I was figuring the Maven reagent would be close to the same amount as Hanna but I could be wrong.

 

[areefer01]

unless you can figure out how to replace automatically then you would need to do it manually. It can probably be done automatically but it would require quite a bit doing it in the fist place but that is what I would do though. Someone will probably come up with a way to do that for people that would need some help figuring it out. You would need to do that with the other test that the Maven does anyway. The Hanna reagent for alkalinity would be too expensive for me to do the test 4 times a day like I do with the iV. The Hanna reagent is $19 for 25 test So that would add up to $3.04 a day doing 4 Hanna test a day. I was figuring the Maven reagent would be close to the same amount as Hanna but I could be wrong.

No one will know until Hydros releases the product and the accompanying reagents. Then do some basic math to get your cost per test for run and maintain.

To give you a quick example Neptune Trident ACM (alk, ca, mg) sells reagent kits in 2 month and 6 month. 6 month is the best price point so that is what I am using (in my opinion).

6 month reagent kit for Alk, Ca, Mg = 109.99, we'll round up to 110.00
Default test schedule is 4 (alk), 2 (ca), 2 (mg)
Total number of tests estimated 760 alk, 360 ca, 360 mg so 1,480
6 month reagent price 110.00 / total available testgs 1,480 = $0.08 per test rounding up

Note 1: Number of tests will vary among hobbyist due to water chemistry - some run higher alk which would use more reagents.

Note 2: Neptune overfills the bottles. This allows wiggle room for chemistry variance but probably more to do with allowing some for calibration task.

Note 3: Trident NP does not have 6 month reagent kits. May be due to reagent shelf life or a component of the set. Therefore the cost per test is higher. $60.00 per box / 60 tests (default schedule is 1 combined per day) = 1 USD per scheduled test

Note 4: You could buy the knock off Trident ACM reagents and lower the cost but I do not run them - no need to

Note 5: There are no knock off Trident NP reagents

Note 6: These are all estimates and of course I may have missed something so there is that...