I got a rant to put out there, so fair warning but I'm open to hearing opinions

[AKG]

I love that everyone loves collecting corals, but I saw something at Reefstock that really, really bothered me. I specific high end coral vendor was buying stuff off of other vendors in order to fleece the crowds by making up names and abusing their reputation as a high end seller in order to make money and proportedly sell things as "rare" or "unique" just because you have a really reputable brand behind you.

This is not okay and I hope you know who you are if you are reading this.

I will not be purchasing from you again and upon asking a local LFS this is not the first year they have done this so I can only believe this behavior is happening at other shows as well.

For the record, it was not Top Shelf Aquatics. They had a good selection and I got some more dragon tongue. It WAS
another nationally recognized brand.

Buying a coral at a show is one thing, but to use your reputation and good brand name to screw over hobbyists is another. I'm pretty upset about it but I just won't ever give them my money.

Not only that but they had a habit of trying to tell customers including myself, "awwww man there's some rare stuff in there" only for me to see them run up to a booth I was at later on and quickly tell a vendor "I'll take these three scolies just charge my card thanks" only to see that they later gave them weird names I'd never heard of.

Not only that, I saw them buy up a hammer coral colony labelled as hammer coral colony and proceed to then take it over, give the name of jack o lantern hammer or something, and charge basically double what the original LFS wanted.


Look, I know you want to make money, everyone there does.

But if you want to sell coral, how about checking your corals in the plane like everyone else instead of ripping off communities of hobbyists around the country.

End of rant.

This just rubbed me the wrong way. The market pays what it can but I have a firm belief that scalping via arbitrage shouldn't be allowed. When a hobbyist asks about your corals, I expect to buy your corals, not some flatworm infested p.o.s. that you bought from the maricultured 7 for $100 area and claimed was a special coral.

Anyone who wants to know the vendor can privately pm me and come to their own conclusions, but I believe it is my duty to spread this awareness as this vendor charges a very, very healthy markup and I can confidently say that this was not consistent with their public image, at all.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, if it was any other vendor I probably wouldn't be so upset about it but I think this is just plain fraud.

I should also note, I have photographic evidence of other vendors complaining about this specific vendor at past events, and lack of truthful provenance of the corals and how they were obtained.

 

[ryanjohn1]

Gross

 

[legionofdoon]

Could you just name the other vendors who didn't do this?

 

[Biddence]

This is disturbing, but not surprising… I’ve heard rumors of a big name vendor doing this as well

 

[billyocean]

Wow.

 

[lynn.reef.nerd]

Yeah ... this is not new. There are a lot of trades/deals/sales that go on behind the scene at every show before most hobbyist even enter.

 

[StatelineReefer]

You know there's another way to look at this, right?

As long as the vendor in question isn't trying to haggle down the LFS, the LFS is still generating sales. Leveraging a brand while at the same time helping the booth opposite isn't exactly a terrible thing. I suppose it would depend on the markup to see just how much it hurts the customer in the end, but to be fair, as long as you're not buying from the greedy big name, who actually is losing?

 

[deerhunter06]

I don’t understand why you go to this extent to tell someone your feelings yet don’t name the business. If they did what you say they did then they need held accountable by everyone in the reefing community not just you.

 

[lynn.reef.nerd]

You know there's another way to look at this, right?

As long as the vendor in question isn't trying to haggle down the LFS, the LFS is still generating sales. Leveraging a brand while at the same time helping the booth opposite isn't exactly a terrible thing. I suppose it would depend on the markup to see just how much it hurts the customer in the end, but to be fair, as long as you're not buying from the greedy big name, who actually is losing?

Yeah also true. As long as everyone made a sale and the buyer is happy.

I did have a vendor haggle me down on a torch once at a show and I thought he really wanted it so I gave him a super nice deal. To find out, he had a customer who was coming that wanted one and he knew the guy would pay top $$ for it. NOW THAT WAS A BAD MOVE.

 

[billyocean]

I expect a high caliber vendor that I'm paying top dollar towards to have at least made sure the coral is good to go before selling. This isn't done in a couple of minutes/hours.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

My 2 cents...i actually see nothing wrong with this behavior. As OP wrote: The market pays what it can but I have a firm belief that scalping via arbitrage shouldn't be allowed.

It would appear OP knows about free market theory but doesnt want it to work effectively. If seller A sells it for too little to the point that Seller B can buy from Seller A and Sell it to Seller C for a mark up..that is definitionally free market theory surrounding inefficient markets. In fact, these intermediaries are a big reason that many of us can get products. In our hobby, distriubtors are a big part of our equation and they are bringing products to those that want and liquidity to the original seller in an inefficient market.

Dont get me wrong...its the same as having a garage sale just to have the pawn shops and ebay sellers haggle you down over your stuff and it annoys me...but it doesnt mean it is wrong. As a seller, you make the decision if you are willing to sell at a price. As a buyer, you make the decision if you are willing to buy at a price. The mechanism outside of your decision for anything other than a definite need (food, energy, etc) is a moot point.

 

[billyocean]

My 2 cents...i actually see nothing wrong with this behavior. As OP wrote: The market pays what it can but I have a firm belief that scalping via arbitrage shouldn't be allowed.

It would appear OP knows about free market theory but doesnt want it to work effectively. If seller A sells it for too little to the point that Seller B can buy from Seller A and Sell it to Seller C for a mark up..that is definitionally free market theory surrounding inefficient markets. In fact, these intermediaries are a big reason that many of us can get products. In our hobby, distriubtors are a big part of our equation and they are bringing products to those that want and liquidity to the original seller in an inefficient market.

Dont get me wrong...its the same as having a garage sale just to have the pawn shops and ebay sellers haggle you down over your stuff and it annoys me...but it doesnt mean it is wrong. As a seller, you make the decision if you are willing to sell at a price. As a buyer, you make the decision if you are willing to buy at a price. The mechanism outside of your decision for anything other than a definite need (food, energy, etc) is a moot point.

I agree with the whole point of flipping coral and making money. My problem is the added risk of said coral with unknown pests and extra stress put on the coral as well. Yes I know dip and blah blah but you know what I mean (the flipper didn't monitor). Plus there's an extra level of stress in switching water and lighting within a short time.

 

[albano]

‘High end vendors’ overcharging on made up names … no surprise there!

Maybe the big name companies can buy up all the booths, and finally eliminate those pesky LFSs

 

[flashsmith]

So a vendor buying a coral for $20 and then selling to someone for $200 is wrong? Wait till you realize how much fish are marked up. You know how I avoid that? I just don't buy them. As a business owner customers don't get to determine what they should pay for my services. They are more than welcome to use anyone else if they don't like my pricing. Its up to hobbyists to educated themselves so they don't get ripped off. I buy those ugly green sticks nobody wants and many of them have grown out into very colorful colonies.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I would be fine with this if it happens before the show opens but after everyone enters this becomes a very shady looking act, wether or not it’s allowed or not.
The big vendor should show their customer to the smaller vendors booth if they know they have a customer that wants something that they don’t have. This boosts the smaller companies and even better makes customers happy all around. I think the crazy High pricing on certain corals these days is making this issue a bigger topic than it would have been. We all know the price was likely doubled or more once the big name was attached to this rare coral, that a small vendor found for the big guy to sell. Hobbyists need to become the solution to these high prices and stop funding these cartoon name crazy money “rare” corals.
Part of the problem could be customers wanting specific corals with “this big name” attached to it. Probably thinking they can get lots of money in the future for fragments. Or just knowing they can boast and flaunt pictures of their favorite “big name” “rare” coral.
We might be surprised at the amount of “rare” corals from high end vendors that were not obtained from wild or mariculture but from other hobbiests or vendors and have been around for a while.

 

[StatelineReefer]

We might be surprised at the amount of “rare” corals from high end vendors that were not obtained from wild or mariculture but from other hobbiests or vendors and have been around for a while.

This will literally be the case for almost every coral with a name.

 

[paintman]

My 2 cents...i actually see nothing wrong with this behavior. As OP wrote: The market pays what it can but I have a firm belief that scalping via arbitrage shouldn't be allowed.

It would appear OP knows about free market theory but doesnt want it to work effectively. If seller A sells it for too little to the point that Seller B can buy from Seller A and Sell it to Seller C for a mark up..that is definitionally free market theory surrounding inefficient markets. In fact, these intermediaries are a big reason that many of us can get products. In our hobby, distriubtors are a big part of our equation and they are bringing products to those that want and liquidity to the original seller in an inefficient market.

Dont get me wrong...its the same as having a garage sale just to have the pawn shops and ebay sellers haggle you down over your stuff and it annoys me...but it doesnt mean it is wrong. As a seller, you make the decision if you are willing to sell at a price. As a buyer, you make the decision if you are willing to buy at a price. The mechanism outside of your decision for anything other than a definite need (food, energy, etc) is a moot point.

Congradulations! Perhaps the best post ever on R2R right there. You just did what our public education system won't do. Teach free market capitalism, and the responsability of the end consumer.

I love the way people in the hobby always try to blame the vendor, when in fact the real cause of the problem is the buyers bad behavior. Until we stop buying corals just because their names makes us feel better about how much we spend, this will only continue to get worse.

 

[Cell]

Buying something at a discount and selling it for a profit is how business works.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

The big vendor should show their customer to the smaller vendors booth if they know they have a customer that wants something that they don’t have. This boosts the smaller companies and even better makes customers happy all around.

this is the same as mom and pop store refusing a sale and sending them to walmart because walmart sells it cheaper. Ok..if you dont like walmart...mom and pop store sending you to smaller mom and pop store that sells it cheaper. Either way..its all but a sure fire remedy for mom and pop to go out of business. You make money how you can.

I know this is personal because we as consumer feel directly affected...but are you going to turn away business because someone else sells something cheaper? I would put high odds that, in reality, few would.

 

[srobertb]

You know there's another way to look at this, right?

As long as the vendor in question isn't trying to haggle down the LFS, the LFS is still generating sales. Leveraging a brand while at the same time helping the booth opposite isn't exactly a terrible thing. I suppose it would depend on the markup to see just how much it hurts the customer in the end, but to be fair, as long as you're not buying from the greedy big name, who actually is losing?

My first local reefing club president/coral shop would always joke. “All those corals are $20. If you want to know their name, they’re $40.”

“goodwill” is a marketable and valid product. Especially in this hobby. I would absolutely pay more for a coral from Jason Fox than eBay seller “Some_dude420.” My expectation is that Jason Fox has raised the coral, can show provenance, and that the coral is healthy.

But the OP doesn’t say “seller was buying random coral from a different seller than misrepresenting it as a known coral.” They’re just buying it from someone who nobody knows and slapping a fancy name on it and using their brand to get more…because people trust them.

Look- if I walk around the show, find a BTA that is looking a little orange today and try and flip it for $1k as a “genuine Colorado sunburst” then I shouldn’t be allowed at shows. If I turn around and charge $1k for it and call it a “genuine Carolina sunburst” …well, that’s something else.

Bottom line to me is- I pay more from proven sellers because there’s an assumption they’re growing them out and maintaining them. We all deserve to know who is doing this because we all deserve informed consent.