I guess I'm supposed to do this?

[BeanAnimal]

I want to do mixed.

See comments above, that is a small tank. Mixed is doable, but skip the mushrooms, gsp, Xenia, etc. they will take over. Some zoanthids play nice, and others do not. The same with leathers. Be aware that many leathers spread by dropping off little pieces that float away and grow where they land. Removal is hard because just a few cells will grow a new coral. The same with mushrooms.

 

[IntrinsicReef]

My recommendation is add some easy soft corals first. Like finger leather, green star polyps, hardy mushrooms or zooanthids.

To the OP: I wouldn’t add any of those corals unless a soft coral tank is what you think you want to have — forever. Those are literally the most invasive corals there are. They are easy because they grow like weeds — but like weeds are a scourge when you decide that you don’t want them.

So before adding anything, decide what type of coral reef it is that want to keep. Spend your time researching corals first, not regretting choices later.

Yeah, I get it. But for someone brand new to the hobby, success with GSP, Leathers or mushrooms will boost confidence and give the tank stability. It's a smallish tank. A rock of GSP can easily be swapped out for a clean one, and probably some credit at an LFS to boot.

 

[cba191]

I'm wanting acans, favias, torches, and hammers, low and middle. With acros up high. Maybe a bubble tip or 2. Maybe some chalices.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yeah, I get it. But for someone brand new to the hobby, success with GSP, Leathers or mushrooms will boost confidence and give the tank stability. It's a smallish tank. A rock of GSP can easily be swapped out for a clean one, and probably some credit at an LFS to boot.

To me it’s like planting dandelion,chickweed and mint in your garden. There is no such thing as failure, just regret if you decide you don’t absolutely love dandelion, chickweed and mint!

My 20+ year old SPS reef is being smothered by mushrooms, palys and leathers that have spent 18 years trying to eradicate. I regret ever putting them in.

Thank goodness the Xenia and GSP got wiped out years ago. Stunningly beautiful, but a scourge.

At one point I had green poccillopora out of control too. It was everywhere.

Currently and for almost 20 years, I also have blue ridge LPS everywhere. It too is extremely invasive and almost impossible to kill.

Point being, easy or not, one should really spend time understanding what they plant, be it GSP in the tank, or trumpet vine in the garden.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I'm wanting acans, favias, torches, and hammers, low and middle. With acros up high. Maybe a bubble tip or 2. Maybe some chalices.

Then fully skip the softies, they will become a scourge.

 

[IntrinsicReef]

Yeah, I get it. But for someone brand new to the hobby, success with GSP, Leathers or mushrooms will boost confidence and give the tank stability. It's a smallish tank. A rock of GSP can easily be swapped out for a clean one, and probably some credit at an LFS to boot.

To me it’s like planting dandelion,chickweed and mint in your garden. There is no such thing as failure, just regret if you decide you don’t absolutely love dandelion, chickweed and mint!

My 20+ year old SPS reef is being smothered by mushrooms, palys and leathers that have spent 18 years trying to eradicate. I regret ever putting them in.

Thank goodness the Xenia and GSP got wiped out years ago. Stunningly beautiful, but a scourge.

At one point I had green poccillopora out of control too. It was everywhere.

Currently and for almost 20 years, I also have blue ridge LPS everywhere. It too is extremely invasive and almost impossible to kill.

Point being, easy or not, one should really spend time understanding what they plant, be it GSP in the tank, or trumpet vine in the garden.

I see where you're coming from, but it's a 48-gallon beginner tank. This would be like planting mint in a container, not a garden, to use your analogy. New hobbyists have to learn like we did. First, how to grow coral, then what grows too fast. Easy enough to manage in a small tank.
I've seen way more hobbyists burn out early and leave the hobby from initially adding challenging coral that die and feed an algae farm, than end up with an overgrown tank they can't manage. So, I will continue to recommend easy, fast growing coral to beginners.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I see where you're coming from, but it's a 48-gallon beginner tank. This would be like planting mint in a container, not a garden, to use your analogy. New hobbyists have to learn like we did. First, how to grow coral, then what grows too fast. Easy enough to manage in a small tank.
I've seen way more hobbyists burn out early and leave the hobby from initially adding challenging coral that die and feed an algae farm, than end up with an overgrown tank they can't manage. So, I will continue to recommend easy, fast growing coral to beginners.

I am honestly not trying to be argumentative; I simply don’t agree in the slightest. I think that the advice for any new reef aquarist to keep those species is extremely short-sighted and countermands much of the logic for providing the advice in the first place.

The garden analogy had nothing to do with the size of the system, but rather the permanence of the decision, and that the act of undoing it means basically starting over. While this may be perfectly fine for some people, or even a stepping stone for others -- just as many people will not want to start over, and the 10, 25 or 40-gallon tank is not a stepping stone, but rather their permanent and only reef.

I personally don’t care what anybody puts in their tank or their garden, as long as it does not affect me. Your concern here about “new hobbyists” failing is exactly the point I am making. Advice should come with context. “Hey, mushrooms and GSP are easy to grow -- but be fully aware that if you do decide to stock them, they will be hard, if not impossible, to get rid of in the future.”

As for the “easy enough to manage in a small tank” sentiment -- that is demonstrably wishful thinking that is more often than not wrong. It ignores the hassle, luck, and expense required to pull it off. Not everyone is willing to pull rock work and bleach it, or cook it in the dark, or hand scrape it. Not everyone has the time or money or interest to replace rock that is infested with unwanted coral fragments, In many (most) systems, doing so is insanely destructive to the rest of the ecosystem and/or aquascape.

So yes, those corals are easy to grow, but advising people to start with them should come with context about the decision, other than "they are easy to grow".

You certainly don't have to agree and can continue giving whatever advice you wish. I just don't happen to agree with it because I think it sets people up for eventual grief if they don't know what they are getting into.

 

[IntrinsicReef]

I see where you're coming from, but it's a 48-gallon beginner tank. This would be like planting mint in a container, not a garden, to use your analogy. New hobbyists have to learn like we did. First, how to grow coral, then what grows too fast. Easy enough to manage in a small tank.
I've seen way more hobbyists burn out early and leave the hobby from initially adding challenging coral that die and feed an algae farm, than end up with an overgrown tank they can't manage. So, I will continue to recommend easy, fast growing coral to beginners.

I am honestly not trying to be argumentative; I simply don’t agree in the slightest. I think that the advice for any new reef aquarist to keep those species is extremely short-sighted and countermands much of the logic for providing the advice in the first place.

The garden analogy had nothing to do with the size of the system, but rather the permanence of the decision, and that the act of undoing it means basically starting over. While this may be perfectly fine for some people, or even a stepping stone for others -- just as many people will not want to start over, and the 10, 25 or 40-gallon tank is not a stepping stone, but rather their permanent and only reef.

I personally don’t care what anybody puts in their tank or their garden, as long as it does not affect me. Your concern here about “new hobbyists” failing is exactly the point I am making. Advice should come with context. “Hey, mushrooms and GSP are easy to grow -- but be fully aware that if you do decide to stock them, they will be hard, if not impossible, to get rid of in the future.”

As for the “easy enough to manage in a small tank” sentiment -- that is demonstrably wishful thinking that is more often than not wrong. It ignores the hassle, luck, and expense required to pull it off. Not everyone is willing to pull rock work and bleach it, or cook it in the dark, or hand scrape it. Not everyone has the time or money or interest to replace rock that is infested with unwanted coral fragments, In many (most) systems, doing so is insanely destructive to the rest of the ecosystem and/or aquascape.

So yes, those corals are easy to grow, but advising people to start with them should come with context about the decision, other than "they are easy to grow".

You certainly don't have to agree and can continue giving whatever advice you wish. I just don't happen to agree with it because I think it sets people up for eventual grief if they don't know what they are getting into.

No worries. Agree to disagree

 

[cba191]

I have no problem learning from other people's mistakes.

 

[Crabs+Shrimps-69]

See comments above, that is a small tank. Mixed is doable, but skip the mushrooms, gsp, Xenia, etc. they will take over. Some zoanthids play nice, and others do not. The same with leathers. Be aware that many leathers spread by dropping off little pieces that float away and grow where they land. Removal is hard because just a few cells will grow a new coral. The same with mushrooms.

Then fully skip the softies, they will become a scourge.

GSP and zoas shouldn't be a problem if isolated to a rock or the back wall, and most leathers aren't invasive either.

While this may be perfectly fine for some people, or even a stepping stone for others -- just as many people will not want to start over, and the 10, 25 or 40-gallon tank is not a stepping stone, but rather their permanent and only reef.

Even though I can't speak on behalf of @cba191, more often than not, people who stay in the hobby plan on upgrading their tank after not too long.

I see where you're coming from, but it's a 48-gallon beginner tank. This would be like planting mint in a container, not a garden, to use your analogy. New hobbyists have to learn like we did. First, how to grow coral, then what grows too fast. Easy enough to manage in a small tank.
I've seen way more hobbyists burn out early and leave the hobby from initially adding challenging coral that die and feed an algae farm, than end up with an overgrown tank they can't manage. So, I will continue to recommend easy, fast growing coral to beginners.

100% agee!

I remember when I was first learning about reefing, the information on PAR, spectrum, spread, flow, and thinking I might need to learn about mechanical filtration was almost overwhelming, and I already had experience with a freshwater tank.

Being forced to learn about dosing and learning how to do calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium tests would have been too much, and I decided a soft coral only tank was best.

Reefing certainly has many challenges, so it's definitely worth starting simple even if a soft coral only tank isn't the goal.


But at the end of the day, it's not our choice, it's @cba191's choice.
My recommendation would be to do your research and make a decision if soft corals in this tank and mixed reef in the next is the right choice for you.

 

[BeanAnimal]

GSP and zoas shouldn't be a problem if isolated to a rock or the back wall, and most leathers aren't invasive either.

GSP are not as invasive as leathers, or zoas, but once they find their way to rock, they are almost impossible to remove. It helps thst they only spread by encrusting or se ding out runners, but It only takes a tiny broken off piece to have them spread to the rock work.

Leathers spread by polyp bailout, splitting and/or shedding small lobes. They, along with Kenya tree and Xenia are prolific and hard to remove once attached to rock.

Zoanthids, it depends on the species.

Even though I can't speak on behalf of @cba191, more often than not, people who stay in the hobby plan on upgrading their tank after not too long.

That is an overly broad assumption and certainly does not negate the advice to give informed advice to new aquarists, my entire point.

My recommendation would be to do your research and make a decision if soft corals in this tank and mixed reef in the next is the right choice for you.

That was the very point that I actually made, several times now. There is nothing wrong with soft coral or the types listed, as long as the advice to start with them is given context.

 

[Crabs+Shrimps-69]

Leathers spread by polyp bailout, splitting and/or shedding small lobes.

I've heard that's true with kenya trees, but is that also true with sarcopythons (toadstalls) and devil's hands leathers?

That was the very point that I actually made, several times now. There is nothing wrong with soft coral or the types listed, as long as the advice to start with them is given context.

At least we have something we both agree on.

 

[IntrinsicReef]

GSP and zoas shouldn't be a problem if isolated to a rock or the back wall, and most leathers aren't invasive either.

Even though I can't speak on behalf of @cba191, more often than not, people who stay in the hobby plan on upgrading their tank after not too long.


100% agee!

I remember when I was first learning about reefing, the information on PAR, spectrum, spread, flow, and thinking I might need to learn about mechanical filtration was almost overwhelming, and I already had experience with a freshwater tank.

Being forced to learn about dosing and learning how to do calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium tests would have been too much, and I decided a soft coral only tank was best.

Reefing certainly has many challenges, so it's definitely worth starting simple even if a soft coral only tank isn't the goal.


But at the end of the day, it's not our choice, it's @cba191's choice.
My recommendation would be to do your research and make a decision if soft corals in this tank and mixed reef in the next is the right choice for you.

Well said. Some people jump straight in and do well managing chemistry, biology and equipment. It takes a lot of time, research and learning from mistakes to get it right. OP said he did not have a clue about reef tanks so I thought the easier the better. Get em hooked ya know. Bean's point is a good heads up. Both angles should be considered.

 

[cba191]

Leathers and other softies have never interested me. I really love torches, hammers, gonis, elegance, acros, acans, and favia.
I have a lot to choose from, but most require a bit more age on the tank.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I've heard that's true with kenya trees, but is that also true with sarcopythons (toadstalls) and devil's hands leathers?

Yup, Sinularia, and Lobophytum, Sarcophyton, etc.

 

[cba191]

What about Leptoseris? I don't see much about those, but they look kinda cool.

 

[cba191]

I kind of want one of these.

 

[cba191]

Nobody had any zebra dart fish so i had to order 3.
What is my phosphate supposed to be?

 

[Red_Beard]

Somewhere between not 0 and less than 1 ppm.

I shoot for .03-.1, but have been up around .5 before too.

 

[cba191]

Somewhere between not 0 and less than 1 ppm.

I shoot for .03-.1, but have been up around .5 before too.

K. .04