I have finalized my stocking list for fish.

Zionas · Mar 25, 2020

Today the dealer contacted me and said that the original plan for a 36”x24”x26” tank would require extra suspension because of the height. He suggested a 36”x24”x24” tank instead which would be 85 gallons, and I agreed. Hopefully it would be a bit more manageable in my apartment. That means no more butterflies, Foxface, Marine Betta, or Tang. I announce that as of today, I have more or less finalized my stocking plan for fish. For inverts and corals I have not decided yet, except that I’d want a pistol shrimp for my YWG.

Here it is, my finalized stocking list for fish. Feel free to point out if you think something won’t work.

Fish 1 and 2: Ocellaris / Black Ocellaris Clowns (I plan to get them in the 3-3.5cm range)

Fish 3: Swissguard Basslet / Swales Swissguard Basslet / maybe one of the rarer Liopoproma species (e.g. Cave Basslet)

Fish 4: Yellow Watchman Goby + Pistol Shrimp

Fish 5: Royal Gramma / Yellow Assessor

Fish 6: Dwarf angel (choosing
between Coral Beauty, Cherub / Flameback, Half Black, Flame, Rusty)

What do you think of this list? I’ve decided to go wrasse-less for now because I’ve read too many horror stories about them jumping. That does not mean I won’t get a Halichoeres wrasse (or Yellow Candy Hogfish) in the future. I’ve opted to not consider any of the lined wrasses, fairy wrasses, or Flasher weasses. The lined because of their aggression, the Fairy and flashers because of their average lifespan being only 5-6 years despite their beauty.

Nevertheless, I WILL absolutely get a mesh top for my tank. It will be one without any openings.

I have selected my fish based on a couple of criteria:
1. As a first-time saltwater hobbyist, I have chosen species that, after doing research, I’ve found generally good reviews on when it comes to hardiness and ability to adjust to captive fare. I’ve selected fish that are generally resistant to disease (of course I will be choosing a healthy specimen), which means I’ve left out appropriate fish like Chromis.

2. As someone who plans to stay in this hobby for many years to come, and hopefully turn it into a lifelong hobby (I’m younger than most of you, I’m only turning 24 this year), I have selected fish that are suitable for my tank size but also at least somewhat capable of making 7-8 years, maybe even 10 years or beyond. There is going to be a lot of sentimental value if I can keep these fish for years to come. I have read many accounts and forum posts of the YWG and Clownfish doing 10+ years (even 20+ for the Clowns), dwarf angels doing at least 8-9 or 10+ years, and hopefully the basslets will be able to make it to the 10 year mark.

I’ve selected the YWG over other gobies because it’s readily affordable and available and its long lifespan seems to be unusual for a goby / Blenny.

3. The species I have selected are generally peaceful / somewhat territorial at best. No super aggressive fish. That means no Dottybacks, no damsels.

4. I’ve selected more outgoing fish (Clowns, dwarf angel), somewhat shyer fish (basslets), and burrowing fish (YWG) so that a range of behaviors will be present.

5. I’ve selected these fish for their beauty in general.

6. I have selected species that are not as likely to jump. As I’ve said that’s why I’m going wrasse-less for now, and I’ve avoided Dartfish / Firefish / Jawfish as if I’m going to get an open tank.

7. These species were selected for their size. None are bigger than 4”, and the biggest fish I can see myself getting for now would be a Yellow Coris Wrasse that gets to 5”. Among these fish, I will try to choose the smallest / youngest specimens possible to maximize longevity.

The order of which I plan to introduce my fish (it’s up to the basslets):

If I get a Royal Gramma + Yellow Assessor:

Yellow Assessor and YWG go in first.

Then Royal Gramma.

Then Ocellaris pair.

Then dwarf angel.

If I get a Royal Gramma + Swissguard / Swales / other Liopoproma:

Ocellaris pair + YWG will go in at the same time.

Swissguard / Swales / other Liopoproma Basslet + RG will go in at the same time.

Then dwarf angel.

If I get a Yellow Assessor + Swissguard / Swales / other Liopoproma:

Yellow Assessor + YWG go in first.

Then Swissguard / other Liopoproma.

Then Ocellaris pair.

Then dwarf angel.

Questions: LA says the regular Swissguard Basslet is “Easy”, but rates the Swales as “Moderate.” Have you noticed less hardiness in the Swales than the Atlantic Swissguard? The Swales and the rarer Liopopromas (If I can find one) would be deep water species. I am worried about decompression which could lead to problems or problems further down the line, thus reducing their overall health and longevity. It’s for this reason that I’m hesitant to consider a Blackcap Basslet among the Grammas.

For the Dwarf angels, among the species I’ve selected, which one is the most peaceful and the hardiest? Which one is less likely to nip at soft corals?

I’ll only be keeping some easy soft corals. Inverts, I am not so sure yet.

Pricing:

-Atlantic species like the RG, Swissguard are more costly in Asia. RG costs about 40 USD and Swissguard costs around the same, maybe a bit more. RG is more commonly available than the Swissguard.

-The Swales costs around the same as the RG and Swissguard, maybe even a bit cheaper. Yellow Assessors cost a bit over 40 USD, up to 50.

-The Clownfish and YWG are very readily affordable.

-Among the Dwarf Angels, Coral Beauty is the cheapest. Rusty is not expensive. Half Black is not bad, the Atlantic Cherub / African Flameback are the most expensive. The Flame is less expensive than the Atlantic Cherub / African Flameback but more expensive than the rest.

(Chinese dealers)

laverda · Mar 26, 2020

The Royal Gramma and coral beauty can both be aggressive. I don’t know about the flame backs. I love my two cherub angels as the swim through the rock work on my 300. They get along great and I am hopping they will pair up at some point. Assessors are really cool but can be very shy in some cases. All fish are capable of jumping. I thought I had lost a yellow assessor after a couple years only to find it in the overflow probably a year after it disappeared. I was luck it landed there and not outside the tank completely. Fairly common for clowns to jump as well.

Zionas · Mar 26, 2020

I’ll only be able to do one dwarf angel, and after consideration and advice from the dealer my tank will only be 85 gallons after all. What dwarf angel would be best for that tank?

I’m even considering a peaceful Damselfish (maybe a pair?) or a damselfish + Chromis (BG Reef Chromis) but the Chromis I am worried about uronema.

Also, would a Marine Betta be good for my tank? I plan to have a max of 7 fish in my tank but if I am going for the Marine Betta I’m going to only have 5 fish. I’ll ax either the dwarf angel or the Basslet, and make a choice between the two.

laverda · Mar 26, 2020

As I said I really like my cherub angel. One would be fine in 85 gallons. Clowns are damsels and can be aggressive as are most damsels. Stick to just the pair of clowns. Marine Betta are cool beautiful fish that can hide amazingly well. They are very slow growing in my experience and would do well in your tank. Mine has been in my care 16-17 years now and was a couple years old when I got it. It was always swimming out in the middle of the 90 gallon tank it originally came from, but has been more reclusive in both my tanks. My 240 and now my 300 have a lot more rock for it to hid in. They are very slow moving and almost stationary a lot of the time. I think 7 fish would be fine even with one being a marine Betta.

Zionas · Mar 26, 2020

I see. But what happens with Marine Bettas once they keep growing and reach their maximum size? Won’t they feel extremely cramped and unhappy in an 85-gallon? They do get up to 8” and I’ve heard they eat small fish and inverts too.

Other than a Cherub angel, would one of the 4” dwarf angels (Coral Beauty, Flame) work in a tank of my size?

laverda · Mar 26, 2020

Considering how old my marine beta is I really doubt they get to be 8”. Where did you find that info? I have never seen one close to that big. I am told mine is a female. Perhaps the males get a bit bigger. They are not open water swimmers like tangs, so I think one would be fine.
Any one of the dwarf angels should be fine in your tank.

Zionas · Mar 26, 2020

@laverda I found it off of Live Aquaria.

About the dwarf angels, which one would you say is the hardiest?

An update: I plan to get 3 Azure or Talbot’s damsels. Would they kill each other? Would they fight my Clowns or any other fish?

I’m worried the Marine Betta eats small fish, and I’ve heard it’s difficult to get it to eat captive fare. How old is yours by the way?

laverda · Mar 28, 2020

Zionas said:
@laverda I found it off of Live Aquaria.

About the dwarf angels, which one would you say is the hardiest?

An update: I plan to get 3 Azure or Talbot’s damsels. Would they kill each other? Would they fight my Clowns or any other fish?

I’m worried the Marine Betta eats small fish, and I’ve heard it’s difficult to get it to eat captive fare. How old is yours by the way?

Dwarf angels are all hardy as far as I am aware and from my experience. I have 4 currently, 2 Cherubs, a lemon peal and a multicolor, which is my tank bully. I have had a coral beauty as well. I have thought about getting rid of my multi color in favor of trying to pair my lemon peal up.
I can not comment specifically about those damsels, sorry.
My best guess is my beta is 18 -19 years old. I have had it since 2004. It was in another tank for a few years before that. It eats flakes and pellets. It is about 5 1/2” long 1 1/2” inch of that is its tail. I have heard conflicting things about them eating small fish, but none of what your thinking about is that small.

Zionas · Mar 28, 2020

How old are / were you dwarf angels? Man I still want to get a Marine Betta but 85 gallons really doesn’t leave much at all to work with, when we take its max size of 8” into consideration. Glad they eat pellets and flakes though.

laverda · Mar 28, 2020

Not really sure. 3 are at least 4 years, The small cherub is a year or so.
Check some other sites on the Marine beta. Like I said they are not very active, most just hanging out floating in place. There is a guy in the breeding forum that breeds them and more knowledgeable then me.

OrionN · Mar 28, 2020

Looking at your fish list, I have the following comments

Regarding Royal Gramma (Gramma loreto)
They are very peaceful, show a lot of gesture and teeth defending their turf but no bite. They are great community fish. If another fish does not get intimidate by their mouth, they just turn tail and dart into their dent. They are dimorphic, and are protogynous hermaphodites. It is really nice to keep them in a harem of several. Dominate fish will turn male and the rest stay female. Males will kill each other, even in my 420 gal tank. Without the present of a dominate male, the fish will turn male very quickly, a few days. In buying these fish, assume that any fish that in tank by them self for a few days, are males, and should not put together. If you want a harem, you should have the LFS order them together and keep them together until you buy them. Other people seem to have problem with keeping them in harem but I did not, and keep them together for years.
There is a very similar species Brazillian Gramma (Gramma braslliensis). Brasillian gramma are larger, minimally less colorful and more aggressive. I have not experience with this species, but read that they are solitary only. Actually, this is what I read about Royal Gramma also, but find by experience not to be the case, so I am not sure about this information. Make sure you get Royal Gramma instead of Brazillian Gramma.
It is difficult to keep Royal gramma's brilliant coloration in captivity. Great variety of good food is needed to keep the color. They are strictly carnivore and only eat frozen food, and will not eat flakes or pellets.

Regarding Marine Betta (Calloplesiops altivelis.)
This is a very beautiful fish but reclusive and does not swim out much during the day initially. Very interesting behavior, but will hunt small crustacean in your tank. It is unlikely that they will bother any fish, but may eat your cleaner shrimp. They are not a wide ranging swimmer and your tank will be plenty large to keep one. There is also another species that is similar in looks and behavior, but the spots are smaller. Fine-spotted Marine Betta (Calloplesiops argus) If you want one, either would be fine in your tank. C. argus is a littler rarer than C. altivelis.