I need advice on using prime I have to go out of town for almost 3 weeks emergency trip

[jmoney7]

I have a qt tank setup with copper right now and there is a lot of fish in there it’s been fine so far I’ve been dosing prime every day but I’m gonna be gone and I’m worried about ammonia spikes. It has biological filtration as well I just use prime to help even things out. Could I put prime in the auto top off water as a way to dose the tank to keep the ammonia levels down?

 

[Cell]

Prime doesn't work for ammonia, despite the claims.

 

[JNalley]

I have a qt tank setup with copper right now and there is a lot of fish in there it’s been fine so far I’ve been dosing prime every day but I’m gonna be gone and I’m worried about ammonia spikes. It has biological filtration as well I just use prime to help even things out. Could I put prime in the auto top off water as a way to dose the tank to keep the ammonia levels down?

If you stop dosing prime for 24 hours, does the ammonia increase?

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Prime doesn't seem to actually help with ammonia at all, so I'd say no:

By all accounts I can find, no, Prime and other conditioners will not actually detoxify ammonia (Randy Holmes-Farley has written about this a few times on the forum now, and a few others have done some testing on the topic too):
too):

Like the claims about Prine, I am not convinced it does anything useful.

I’d love to know if it does anything useful. Don’t be fooled into assuming all hobby products do what they claim. Some some do not.

Does Prime actually "Detoxify" free ammonia, NH3?

This started when @Dan_P was looking at measuring NH3 with seneye and was curious about performance near zero NH3. I suggested trying Prime to artificially zero out the NH3 sensor, and the results were weird... so I checked with my seachem kit. Prime by Seachem is commonly used to treat tap...

www.reef2reef.com

Prime Does Not Remove Ammonia

Last August we discussed data that cast doubt on the ability of Prime to remove ammonia from artificial seawater. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/does-prime-actually-detoxify-free-ammonia-nh3.849985/ Since then, I continued the search for evidence that Prime removed ammonia from artificial...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Cell]

Does Prime actually "Detoxify" free ammonia, NH3?

This started when @Dan_P was looking at measuring NH3 with seneye and was curious about performance near zero NH3. I suggested trying Prime to artificially zero out the NH3 sensor, and the results were weird... so I checked with my seachem kit. Prime by Seachem is commonly used to treat tap...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[jmoney7]

If you stop dosing prime for 24 hours, does the ammonia increase?

Yes well it’s supposed to just bind to the ammonia making it less toxic however ammonia will still show up on tests but maybe my biological filtration is what’s doing the work idk tho

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Yes well it’s supposed to just bind to the ammonia making it less toxic however ammonia will still show up on tests but maybe my biological filtration is what’s doing the work idk tho

See the quote below and the second link in my quote posted above:

The links talk about that (posts 9, 13, and 14 in the second thread are particularly good); and yes, most test kits - including the one recommended by Seachem - can't read any difference between water with prime and water without (post 14 discusses this too).

As mentioned in the threads, probably the best way to tell for sure would be to run a controlled ammonia toxicity test using live specimens, but that runs into some ethical concerns, and to my knowledge hasn't been attempted yet (someone on the Humblefish forums technically ran a semi-serious test, but the shrimp were fine in all three conditions, so it's pretty safe to say they didn't add enough ammonia to begin with for a toxicity test).

Also:

How toxic is ammonia, really?

In the context of trying to understand why so many people believe Seachem Prime was useful for them in an elevated ammonia situation, against the data in the link below about Prime potentially doing nothing to free ammonia in seawater, the question arises, why...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[JNalley]

Yes well it’s supposed to just bind to the ammonia making it less toxic however ammonia will still show up on tests but maybe my biological filtration is what’s doing the work idk tho

So, I understand the claim, the claim as far as most of the community is concerned is false. But if you have ammonia present in your system, you may want to add more biological filtration.

 

[jmoney7]

So, I understand the claim, the claim as far as most of the community is concerned is false. But if you have ammonia present in your system, you may want to add more biological filtration.

I don’t currently have ammonia in the system I’m just worried that I will being gone for 3 weeks

 

[JNalley]

I don’t currently have ammonia in the system I’m just worried that I will being gone for 3 weeks

If you have enough biological filtration to convert the ammonia to nitrite and the nitrite to nitrate, you no longer have to worry about ammonia. I assume someone is going to be watching the tank while you're away, feeding, etc? If you want to pickup a seachem ammonia badge and toss it in there so they have a clear indicator, that wouldn't be a bad thing. But I'd say you're fine and the prime is really only providing you with placebo relief rather than confidence

 

[Cell]

Hold on, you want to keep them in the QT tank with copper for 3 weeks while you are away? If the copper treatment is not complete, you will have to restart it anyway. Put them in a tank with cycled live rock and no copper while you are gone.

 

[jmoney7]

Hold on, you want to keep them in the QT tank with copper for 3 weeks while you are away? If the copper treatment is not complete, you will have to restart it anyway. Put them in a tank with cycled live rock and no copper while you are gone.

Why is this if it is at the right level why would the level change or have to restart I have not done a water change since I started at and won’t until they are done with copper. It has stayed constant the whole time. I’m confused at why you think I would have to restart when I got back.

 

[jmoney7]

If you have enough biological filtration to convert the ammonia to nitrite and the nitrite to nitrate, you no longer have to worry about ammonia. I assume someone is going to be watching the tank while you're away, feeding, etc? If you want to pickup a seachem ammonia badge and toss it in there so they have a clear indicator, that wouldn't be a bad thing. But I'd say you're fine and the prime is really only providing you with placebo relief rather than confidence

Ahhh well thank you and no one is monitoring it I don’t have anyone to go over there have left it unsupervised for a month before have an auto top off and enough food in my feeder to last that long. My feeder is also connected to my phone so I can see if it goes out and figure out something then.

 

[Cell]

Also this

Never use ammonia removing products or other reducing agents (dechlorinator) when dosing copper. Most products bind copper with an amine to reduce toxicity to the fish. Reducing agents break that bond, releasing free copper that can harm the fish.

 

[jmoney7]

Also this

Yeah I’ve read that there’s a different thread that someone tested it and it had no effect on copper power specifically toxicity. But I’m still confused at why you would say I would have to restart?

 

[00W]

So...
How many fish in how big a QT?
Are you testing for copper?
Should test all the time when running a QT I'd imagine.
You have to maintain a therapeutic level of copper for a specified time or all is for naught. Gotta test so you know.
If you're worried about ammonia then probably not enough biological filtration?
Is anyone watching them for 3 weeks?
I don't leave my fish unattended relatively EVER. Just me.
Prime does nothing as far as I know.
I'd love to give you a good answer but your post is pretty vague and I don't have much to go off of sorry.

 

[MnFish1]

Ahhh well thank you and no one is monitoring it I don’t have anyone to go over there have left it unsupervised for a month before have an auto top off and enough food in my feeder to last that long. My feeder is also connected to my phone so I can see if it goes out and figure out something then.

I would guess it will be fine. I don't know how much your tank is worth - I always just hired a house sitter.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yeah I’ve read that there’s a different thread that someone tested it and it had no effect on copper power specifically toxicity. But I’m still confused at why you would say I would have to restart?

The trouble is, it depends on the amount of unreacted reducing agent. The chemistry is VERY complicated, but some reactions occur before others. So - adding dechlor to just the amount needed to reduce free chlorine is fine, but if added in surplus, it starts to look for other reactions. The fear is that it may begin breaking the ammonia/copper bond. Better to be safe and not combine them.

 

[kentexan3]

I put two handfuls of my grape cholerpa macroalgea from my ref in a clear fish breeder and hung it on the wall of my qt with a small wave maker pointed at it and no more detectable ammonia…don’t know if it was a coincidence or not but I’m finishing a 90 day fallow after an ich outbreak and no longer worry about ammonia.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes well it’s supposed to just bind to the ammonia making it less toxic however ammonia will still show up on tests but maybe my biological filtration is what’s doing the work idk tho

What is is supposed to do seems to not be what it actually does. lol