I think I give up.

[Roatan Reef]

Is that me? I have six tanks total and a 500 gallon pond. All do very well. Planted mostly. I do have a macro algae mangrove pico. No issues with that. I think I need to keep it simple.


I brought in the tank stand last night. It's a aluminum stand. Only one thing to do. Start over with a larger tank. It's a trigger 36 sump. In the box. I'll see what happens with these corals and maybe just give them all away. I think I will gear this set up for sticks. I have a great reef store here with some great coral. If I gear the tank for one type of coral that has the same requirements I will do better.

Pay 0 attention to @The Opinionated Reefer

 

[Nano_Man]

Just keep going

 

[Devisissy]

Outside the box - there are some beautiful fish only and macro algae tanks out there, and fake coral that look pretty good. I’m very jealous of all the angels out there I can’t have cuz they would devour corals. Or convert to freshwater and do some cool mud/log/plant scaping. Or try an algae scrubber/reactor/fuge - all the nutrients contributing to algae will go there instead of algae in your display (fight fire with fire).

I was going to do discus instead of reef. I guess I was just looking to see if I should throw in the towel or give it another go.

What ***** butt Response!

Naw, he's not wrong.

I believe that real ocean live rock is the remedy to your woes. Whatever you don't like about it, will be greatly diminished by your success.

It's insanely expensive and I looked at the Australian live rock and it's quite nice! I could budget it in.

Please answer these:

Tank size?
Stocking list? CUC?
Foods you feed and how often?
Do you dose anything?
Water change schedule?
Equipment you are running and why you started running it?
Light schedule?
Full list of most recent parameters?

I know some of this has been answered, but spread over 3 pages it is hard to get a full picture.

Speaking of pictures, can you post a picture of the tank please?

From what I am reading it sounds like you have the proper equipment and are putting in appropriate time/effort. . . something is amiss. . .

I will agree with others that you may be doing "too much". But hard so say without knowing the above.

Tank is a JBJ 45 rimless, I have 36 gallons of actual water.

Stock is two clowns and a yellow tailed damsel. One cleaner shrimp (he's 3 now, about time to die me thinks). An urchin I have had for 15 years. The clowns I have had for 11 years. And the Damsel is 9 years old.

CUC is a ton of small ceriths, like a ton. Then like 12 or 13 big ceriths. 9 Nerites. 5 hermits...well maybe four I think I lost one. They are dwarf red and some blue legged. And one massive mexican. I bought these guys the last algae outbreak.

I feed spectrum new life flake almost every day and saltwater multipack, one half cube twice a week on days I don't.

I dose 2ml vodka daily. Iodide on Wednesdays, 3ml since last ICP test showed it was on the much lower side. And Brightwell replenish on Wednesdays, just because a friend of mine uses it and his tank is fire. I know, waste of money. Daily 2mL or red sea AB+. I started this the last time I added corals. Thought it might help. It doesn't do squat. I have a Red Sea doser. It's only dosing vodka right now because my tank stopped using alk and ca when all the coral died. I mean, it does but its nothing.

I change ten gallons of water once a week.

I use a EFlux Loop return pump 1040GPH, the pumps that come with the tunze are garbage. A Tunze 9010 skimmer. An MP40, bought for the 90 gallon, and an MP10. They are in antisync mode reef crest, the MP40 is barely over 15% or it blows water out the tank. A phosban reactor 550 with carbon, I just like how clear it makes the water. I don't have to use it by anymeans. Another phosban reactor 550 with GFO. That was to help with the algae.

My light is a reef breeders photon V2 pro. Light is on at 9:00am ramps for 2 hours then blues peak at 37% and the whites come on after a three hour ramp and peak at 10%, then out at 9pm.

The icp test is nothing sandwich. Everything in the green BUT arsenic. That was considered high. Was it higher than our city's drinking water, no. Not even close. I just sent a new test out yesterday should get the results from germany in a week or so. I will post photos, current photos, and some of the stats. Ignore that nitrate 11.3. That's our city's tap water. I have no clue why the hall I stuck it in the aquarium notes.

 

[Devisissy]

Pay 0 attention to @The Opinionated Reefer

I mean he's not wrong. I could very well one of those people. It's so weird that a 3 gallon macro algae tank is fine. I use no filtration on that. I do a dixie cup sized water change daily and a monthly 50% water change. I use nilcog fertilizer on it using the same schedule my low tech planted tank is on. The phosphates in that pico are at 4 or 5 and nitrates 20. Running an old Kessil tuna sun on it. I mean as less fussing you can imagine. I use a 2 liter pop bottle as an ATO. And it thrives. Just one dusty old crab in there so it's pretty easy. So when I say I need to keep it simple. Maybe that's what it boils down to. Just simplify this crap. The trigger 36 is as simple a sump as they come.

I'm just talking out loud.

 

[MoshJosh]

Seems like you are doing a bit much for a relatively small bioload and big water changes.

Could you take like EVERYTHING away? Like no vodka, no dosing, no reactors. . . keep skimmer. . . and see what happens? (still keep the obvious stuff like heater, pumps, ATO, etc.)

I have kept a few simple tanks with similar stocking and smaller water changes and grown coral.

. . . also keep an eye on the urchin as they can eat corals. . .

. . . also I like astrea snails, trochous snails, turbo snails, blue leg hermits, and emerald crabs for CUC personally. . .

 

[BeanAnimal]

Real talk:

The more details that you post the more evident it becomes that you have listened to far too many people and tried far too many things. You have a small, less than ideal bucket of water and are dumping everything under the Sun into it. Either change that, or be doomed to repeat.

My advice stands, restart with the 90 and drop 100% of that nonsense in favor of simple and stable… or don’t and waste more time and money.

Salt
Light
2-part
skimmer
Period

 

[Seanb1]

Do you ever get corraline algae to grow and what type rock are you using.
I k8nda had the same problem for a couple years and came to the conclusion that Marco rock sucks.
I purchased some kg aquatics starter rock that was beautiful and everything has been great for a year now.
I used some of my old Marco to build some islands out of and now it's totally full of life from the aquaculture live rock and have started with some sps frags believe it of not and they are growing well.

 

[ctopherl]

Seems like you are doing a bit much for a relatively small bioload and big water changes.

Could you take like EVERYTHING away? Like no vodka, no dosing, no reactors. . . keep skimmer. . . and see what happens? (still keep the obvious stuff like heater, pumps, ATO, etc.)

I have kept a few simple tanks with similar stocking and smaller water changes and grown coral.

. . . also keep an eye on the urchin as they can eat corals. . .

. . . also I like astrea snails, trochous snails, turbo snails, blue leg hermits, and emerald crabs for CUC personally. . .

Real talk my little 20g coral QT is more stable than my actual tank right now just because I can do 30% weekly water changes. I have two small submersible filters (~$10 on Amazon) that have a little sponge filter in them and double as power heads and some rock that I seeded with bacteria in my sump for a few months (+heater/ATO). Corals are thriving.

 

[Nano_Man]

Running a simple set up works well your salt has everything you need in it so don’t dose maybe at a later date . Saltwater lighting and good filter bang all done. Skimmer on larger volumes of water

 

[BeanAnimal]

Do you ever get corraline algae to grow and what type rock are you using.
I k8nda had the same problem for a couple years and came to the conclusion that Marco rock sucks.

Except that Marco Rocks doesn’t suck or prevent coralline algae from growing. It is dry mined aragonite and perfectly suitable for a reef, that is where it came from. My reef and countless others being perfect examples.

 

[MnFish1]

I know, I know. Lot's of threads just like this.

I have been in the hobby now, 15 years. I have never been really successful. For the past 7 years I have had the same tank crash multiple times. Nothing stays alive except the fish. Nothing. They become giant algae pits, I get rid of the algae, then the corals die, rinse and repeat. I have had all the same fish for the last 7 years except for one blenny that died of old age.

But corals. I spend all this money, then they all die. There is no reason either. I send my water for ICP, it comes back great (30 times over the past 15 years)! I home test EVERY week. Nothing out of the ordinary. PH, ALK, CA, MAG all fall within normal. I do a weekly water change with water the same level as the tank. I have a great RO/DI system. The light is a reef breeders. Par is EXACTLY what you would want for a mixed tank. Softies, skin falls off they die, Sticks, they RTN and die. Xenia, shrivels dies, mushrooms, shrivel die. what the heck?

The fish just hang out and live FOREVER. So over these last 15 years I have taken the tank completely down and restarted. New sand rocks and corals. Always with the same results. Algae, coral death, fix algae, more coral death. Each time I reset up the tank I get a new algae I've never had before.

I'm so done. I can't figure out why I am always fighting algae and coral death. I have a JBJ 45 rimless. I also have a 90 gallon custom made tank with trigger sump and an aluminum stand but haven't set it up because I can't figure out where I am going wrong. Why set up another death trap? So I got to thinking maybe I am just really bad at this and I should give up. I was looking at my app, and my tank has been painfully consistent over the last 6 years since I have had the app. The only real changes has been lighting. The last three years being with the reef breeders.

Why do I fail?! I have nothing to lose at this point if anyone wants to throw in their 2 cents. I will consider it. After painful painful husbandry I was able to defeat my hair algae...but just like the other 5 times the corals are dying now. They were when the hair algae was around but they just continue to die after the algae is dead.

Any advice?

Not specifically you - but my guess is you aren't realizing (as most people do not) - that those beautiful fish tank pictures have also had their series of failures. For example. Birdsnest coral Easy, right? I tried 5, 10 15 - they would die within 2 weeks - while other acros, LPS, etc etc did fine. Parameters were 'fine'. Sometimes it's just a milieu in the tank that is toxic to something else. All of the sudden - after adding come carbon (activated) - it was 'easy'. In short - the tanks full of coral does not mean that every coral put into that tank grew in that position.

 

[Devisissy]

Except that Marco Rocks doesn’t suck or prevent coralline algae from growing. It is dry mined aragonite and perfectly suitable for a reef, that is where it came from. My reef and countless others being perfect examples.

All my times restarting were marco rock. I have always been pleased.

 

[Devisissy]

Seems like you are doing a bit much for a relatively small bioload and big water changes.

Could you take like EVERYTHING away? Like no vodka, no dosing, no reactors. . . keep skimmer. . . and see what happens? (still keep the obvious stuff like heater, pumps, ATO, etc.)

I have kept a few simple tanks with similar stocking and smaller water changes and grown coral.

. . . also keep an eye on the urchin as they can eat corals. . .

. . . also I like astrea snails, trochous snails, turbo snails, blue leg hermits, and emerald crabs for CUC personally. . .

Yes, deal.

 

[Devisissy]

Do you ever get corraline algae to grow and what type rock are you using.
I k8nda had the same problem for a couple years and came to the conclusion that Marco rock sucks.
I purchased some kg aquatics starter rock that was beautiful and everything has been great for a year now.
I used some of my old Marco to build some islands out of and now it's totally full of life from the aquaculture live rock and have started with some sps frags believe it of not and they are growing well.

Yes, it's a the green variety. However, it doesn't grow like others.

Real talk:

The more details that you post the more evident it becomes that you have listened to far too many people and tried far too many things. You have a small, less than ideal bucket of water and are dumping everything under the Sun into it. Either change that, or be doomed to repeat.

My advice stands, restart with the 90 and drop 100% of that nonsense in favor of simple and stable… or don’t and waste more time and money.

Salt
Light
2-part
skimmer
Period

I can do this. I would actually love to do this. I'm fighting the urge to look at algae reactors right now.

 

[Seanb1]

All my times restarting were marco rock. I have always been pleased.

Not me, and I've seen alot of others have problems with it.
Yes indeed it did come from a reef, an ancient one that's been buried on land with who know what soaking into it.
When I took mine out of my tank I soaked it in rodi water for about 6 months changing the water every 6 weeks or so and it had phosphate in it every time I tested the water,, it grew hair algae like you've never seen, I took a gallon of hair algae off my rocks every week.

It was and is garbage rock ill never buy it again, nor would I suggest anyone use it.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yes, it's a the green variety. However, it doesn't grow like others.


I can do this. I would actually love to do this. I'm fighting the urge to look at algae reactors right now.

You just pretty much summarized your problem. The minute you run into an issue with the new setup and fall back into that pattern is the minute that history will repeat itself.

A stable reef takes patience and stable husbandry. This hobby is full of solutions that create other problems.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Not me, and I've seen alot of others have problems with it.
Yes indeed it did come from a reef, an ancient one that's been buried on land with who know what soaking into it.

You do realize that MOST of the REAL dry rock in this hobby comes from a small number of places, don't you? Florida Keys being one of those places. Piles of Fiji and Tonga and other rock are also gathered from dry deposits that were once underwater with "who knows what" soaking into it.

When I took mine out of my tank I soaked it in rodi water for about 6 months changing the water every 6 weeks or so and it had phosphate in it every time I tested the water,, it grew hair algae like you've never seen, I took a gallon of hair algae off my rocks every week.

ANY Porous rock will do this if you had phosphate in your system. The more porous the rock the more area to bind phosphate. Don't want to bind phosphate, get super dense rock and use very little of it.

It was and is garbage rock ill never buy it again, nor would I suggest anyone use it.

Except that it is not garbage and you are repeating disproved hokum. You are blaming the rock for bringing in phosphate when it was actually absorbing it from your system. This has been disproven several times over the last 2 decades, even fairly recently with a lab test.

Any Issues with Marco Rock?

I just read a thread about 'the best rock' and someone mentioned some dry rock leaching phosphates or something. I wouldn't have thought that there would be any problems with dry rock -- surely it would be better than spending more for live rock, which could contain all sorts of pests? I want...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Sump Crab]

Next time you start over use real ocean liverock like KP aquatics or TBS saltwater rocks. It will make a difference.

 

[nuxx]

Had to make the decision back in the mid 2010s as well, ended up deciding to get out.

Just had way too much invested in the tank, along with some extremely rare fish, I couldn't figure out a random death issue that kept coming up with smaller fish. Tried everything, even having the housecleaners change to vinegar over chemical products.

Couldn't stomach losing a very special fish. Tore the tank down and spread my fish out amongst the local reef club.

I did make a lot of connections in the industry and it's still a business of mine. I really enjoy hearing about other people's tanks, helping them with selections, etc... but from a distance is fine for me right now.

I've also been in the watch industry since the early 2000s and went through a period of probably over 10 years where I was so burnt out by watches that I didn't own or wear one. In the last two years I've got the watch bug hard again, and have put together a rare nice / grail type collection in a very short time.

Who knows, the same thing might happen with a new tank one day...

 

[Devisissy]

Had to make the decision back in the mid 2010s as well, ended up deciding to get out.

Just had way too much invested in the tank, along with some extremely rare fish, I couldn't figure out a random death issue that kept coming up with smaller fish. Tried everything, even having the housecleaners change to vinegar over chemical products.

Couldn't stomach losing a very special fish. Tore the tank down and spread my fish out amongst the local reef club.

I did make a lot of connections in the industry and it's still a business of mine. I really enjoy hearing about other people's tanks, helping them with selections, etc... but from a distance is fine for me right now.

I've also been in the watch industry since the early 2000s and went through a period of probably over 10 years where I was so burnt out by watches that I didn't own or wear one. In the last two years I've got the watch bug hard again, and have put together a rare nice / grail type collection in a very short time.

Who knows, the same thing might happen with a new tank one day...

My fish are long lived. They are the originals. I was given a blenny from a guy in our group that was 6 years old, so I had him for another 3 and he finally just died. It's the massive amount of wasted money on coral, just to watch it die.

I really am not sure about the live rock. I have heard horror stories. However I will still keep researching it.

I did break down and buy an algae scrubber. I might never use it. Just ordered some plumming. Will start a thread...I guess. So people can watch me fail in real time.