I think my rodi unit is causing issues with my growout system

[PerplexyHexy]

So I have had alot of issues with growing hard corals. I have good growth on all my softies... not as much as I would like, but Ill take it. Im starting to wonder if my rodi setup is causing the issue. Im using a Hydrologic stealth 150 I got brand new from my friend who worked at a hydroponic store. So Ive been using that. I added the di chamber myself. I always flush membrane out before I fill my ro storage tank. Have multiple tds meters, always reads zero... I change filters out every 6-7 months... I havent changed the membrane yet which I know could be an issue. I bought an icp test because im almost positive there has to be an issue with my topoff water. So I need to send that in asap to find out results of topoff water. I have no clue what else it could be. Ive heard a few people say that even though their tds meters read zero there is still some contaminant remaining in their topoff water. Any suggestions or tips on how to figure this out? Hit me with some info or pointers or ask me questions so I can better understand why Im having such an issue with sps. I also use natural sea water for water changes. I prebuffer the water to match tank water. Running carx to maintain levels in between waterchanges. Parameters are always spot on every waterchange. Both lps and sps tanks are all on one system... just trying to give a little background... Tank will hit the one year mark in January... so yes, its a new setup... thats the only other thing I could think of... bare bottom in both tanks... 400+ lbs liverock... 300 gallon system with 40 gallon refugium... plenty of flow, running gyres... I just dont really know whats up...

 

[JoshH]

What kind of lighting are you running on your SPS system? What kind of issues are you having exactly? Just slow growing? Also can you share your parameters with us anyway? You mentioned prebuffering your WC water, could you elaborate on that as well??

Also have you checked for any stray voltage? Any equipment that might be rusting?

 

[PerplexyHexy]

I get my water from Scripps in San Diego... Ca, mag, and alk are on the lower side, still within a reasonable range though... Tests always come out the same everytime I check... CA 420 mag 1350 alk 6.8... I dose 50ml of b-ionic ca and alk to every 50 gallon water change I do every week to two weeks. Made all the calculations with reef calculator from what my tank runs and what the Scripps water comes in at... Tank runs at ca 455 mag 1475 alk 8.3, I basically left all the parameters the way it was after I still was using synthetic salt mixes and no carx... I was using RSCP... I run 61” hybrid with five g4 xr15s and a 48” hybrid with two g3 and two g4 xr15s... soft tank runs all b+ bulbs and hard corals use two C+ and two B+ bulbs... there is little to no growth, eventually they just rtn/stn then grow algae all over them... the sps I have left have no growth at all and grow algae in them in certain areas as well. Havent checked for stray voltage, tanks obviously okay when I put my hands in... I know thats not a dead giveaway, but eh... no metal I could think of in the tank... just magnets that visually look like they did when I bought them... no swelling or anything... I dont know anymore... hahahah

 

[W1ngz]

What's your day/night swing of ph, nitrate and phosphate level?

 

[JoshH]

I get my water from Scripps in San Diego... Ca, mag, and alk are on the lower side, still within a reasonable range though... Tests always come out the same everytime I check... CA 420 mag 1350 alk 6.8... I dose 50ml of b-ionic ca and alk to every 50 gallon water change I do every week to two weeks. Made all the calculations with reef calculator from what my tank runs and what the Scripps water comes in at... Tank runs at ca 455 mag 1475 alk 8.3, I basically left all the parameters the way it was after I still was using synthetic salt mixes and no carx... I was using RSCP... I run 61” hybrid with five g4 xr15s and a 48” hybrid with two g3 and two g4 xr15s... soft tank runs all b+ bulbs and hard corals use two C+ and two B+ bulbs... there is little to no growth, eventually they just rtn/stn then grow algae all over them... the sps I have left have no growth at all and grow algae in them in certain areas as well. Havent checked for stray voltage, tanks obviously okay when I put my hands in... I know thats not a dead giveaway, but eh... no metal I could think of in the tank... just magnets that visually look like they did when I bought them... no swelling or anything... I dont know anymore... hahahah

How about your phosphate and nitrate? I'll be honest I'm not much of a coral expert, just trying to think of everything that might be an issue until someone who has a bit more knowledge chimes in

 

[PerplexyHexy]

How about your phosphate and nitrate? I'll be honest I'm not much of a coral expert, just trying to think of everything that might be an issue until someone who has a bit more knowledge chimes in

I got you... Needs to be said anyway, like you said for others... no3 is 25 and po4 is .14

 

[PerplexyHexy]

What's your day/night swing of ph, nitrate and phosphate level?

Dont mind the salinity, probe needs to be recalibrated... Its all over the place recently... Been 6 months since I calibrated last... salinity is 1.025 checked with refractometer and hanna as backup...

 

[PerplexyHexy]

Been looking for some good readings besides my phone for once... Been awhile since I bought any literature on reefing so I decided to give this one a go...

 

[Flippers4pups]

Sounds like a bacterial issue or pest. Do you dip your corals? Assuming you do.

 

[PerplexyHexy]

I dip all new additions, yes! But all the corals Ive had already, no...

 

[PerplexyHexy]

Been thinking of dipping them all actually... Need to find a good process to dip over 100 pieces most effectively... and what dip I should use... I have revive and bayer... I understand revive is good, but doesnt get rid of some pests and Bayer is brutal, but works... Been thinking of going back to Polyp Lab Primer, but not sure... So is rodi water not the problem then?

 

[W1ngz]

Everything that I know to look for seems to be under control and stable. Logically the only other suspects might be pests or contaminants. The ICP test might show something when it comes back. Stray voltage is possible, but most of what I've read on that only seems anecdotal. A ground probe and GFCI outlet or shop cord would eliminate that from consideration.

What is it that makes you suspect the topoff water?

 

[PerplexyHexy]

Everything that I know to look for seems to be under control and stable. Logically the only other suspects might be pests or contaminants. The ICP test might show something when it comes back. Stray voltage is possible, but most of what I've read on that only seems anecdotal. A ground probe and GFCI outlet or shop cord would eliminate that from consideration.

What is it that makes you suspect the topoff water?

That and now that its been brought up, dipping! Are my only two issues that I could think it is. Or also what Flip said... bacteria. Could be in the Scripps water... Thats the downfall of using natural sea water I guess... I just wanted to use natural sea water for an entire year to get all the necessary beneficial bacteria established well in the system.

 

[PerplexyHexy]

Im not super knowledgeable on rodi units... So I just kinda figured the unit Im using is garbage, but theoretically all rodi units function the same way I guess... lol! The ICP would be best to rule that out... So 3 possibilities Im getting from this; pests, bacterial, rodi water... I have no clue going about treating bacterial issues. So I dont even know where to begin on that... looks like more reading for me

 

[SeaDweller]

Bro, I wouldn't use Scripps anymore. I'm sure our water is contaminated still from the TJ stuff, and it's just not worth it. I don't think the water quality from scripps is all that great, anymore. I got a buddy of mine who used it for years (alot of high end acros) and he was having some sorts of issues, once he stopped and made his own water, all the issues slowly went away, and his stuff is thriving now.

As far as the RODI water, I was having issues a few years ago at about this time as well. For one, my ASO wasn't turning off my RODI, so I'm sure it was depleting my filters, and also, in SD at that time, supposedly there was alot of chloramines being added to the city water too, so I quickly saw my acros go to ish. There were multiple people I knew who had issues at about this time a few short years ago.

I now change out my pre filters every 3-4 months just in case man. @cboltsd01 may have insight as to the Scripps thing.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Im not super knowledgeable on rodi units... So I just kinda figured the unit Im using is garbage, but theoretically all rodi units function the same way I guess... lol! The ICP would be best to rule that out... So 3 possibilities Im getting from this; pests, bacterial, rodi water... I have no clue going about treating bacterial issues. So I dont even know where to begin on that... looks like more reading for me

Sorry, barbecuing right now! Okay, to test your RO/DI, aside of TDS out put would be to test if your carbon blocks are spent.

With your RO/DI unit running, test the waste water coming out for chlorine or chloramines.

You can get these at any pool store or places like BRS.

Insta-Test Free & Total Chlorine & Chloramine Strips (Fresh Water)

Why does BRS recommend this? The easiest way to know if your city uses chlorine or chloramines is by using the LaMotte Test Strips for Free and Total Chlorine. Water Treatment facilities can change their treatment process without notice and usually change the amounts of disinfectants used...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Any sign that there is any getting through is a indicator that the carbon blocks are spent and need to be replaced.

 

[Timfish]

For what it's worth here's a link to ICP tests I did for a mixed reef system maintained with local tapwater only treated with dechlorinator:

ICP test results, 90 gallon Mixed Reef w/ Tapwater

Just wanted to show the ATI ICP test results for a mixed reef system maintained with tap water. Often what I've seen when aquarists post problems blame is quickly attributed to water quality issues that aren't supported by the research I've read and experiences I've had over the last couple of de...

www.austinreefclub.com

As far as nitrates are conserned you might consider trying to lower it as all forms and suorces on nitrogen need to be considered. I know it's a fad right now to raise nitrates to color up corals but what's not taken into consideration is corals prefer urea, ammonia and then nitrates derived from fish over nitrates from anthropogenic sources. Also, corals have symbiotic diazotrophs that fix N2 for them. Organic nitrogen in the form of amino acids also needs to be considered as it is an important suorce for corals. Research has also shown dosing nitrates has a ngeative impact on corals. Here's some papers if you want to dig into it more:

Corals prefer fish poop, Nitrate dosing negatively impacts calcification

Context-dependent effects of nutrient loading on the coral-algal mutualism | Request PDF

Request PDF | Context-dependent effects of nutrient loading on the coral-algal mutualism | Human-mediated increases in nutrient availability alter patterns of primary production, impact species diversity, and threaten ecosystem function.... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on...

www.researchgate.net

Diazotrophs: a non-negligible source of nitrogen for the tropical coral Stylophora pistillata

Diazotrophs: a non-negligible source of nitrogen for the tropical coral Stylophora pistillata - PubMed

Corals are mixotrophs: they are able to fix inorganic carbon through the activity of their symbiotic dinoflagellates and to gain nitrogen from predation on plankton and uptake of dissolved organic and inorganic nutrients. They also live in close association with diverse diazotrophic communities...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Urea uptake prefered to nitrate

Urea uptake by the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

Urea can be one of the major sources of nitrogen for phytoplankton, but little is known about its importance for corals. Experiments were therefore de…

www.sciencedirect.com

Uptake of ammonium: (You'll need to do a search on Google Scholar with the term "Uptake of ammonium by the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata". There's an understandable issue with cookies preventing the link from working correctly.)

Uptake of amino acids

Uptake of dissolved free amino acids by the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

SUMMARY. This study was designed to assess the importance of dissolved free amino acids (DFAA) as a nitrogen source for the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata. For this purpose, experiments were performed using 15N-enriched DFAAs, and %15N enrichment was measured both in animal tissue and...

jeb.biologists.org

ANd cryptic sponges need to be considered also as they can be recycling nitrogen and dumping nitrogen enriched detritus back into the food web in your system.

(PDF) 2013 deGoeij Science Sponge loop

PDF | On Jun 23, 2015, Jasper M de Goeij and others published 2013 deGoeij Science Sponge loop | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

 

[PerplexyHexy]

For what it's worth here's a link to ICP tests I did for a mixed reef system maintained with local tapwater only treated with dechlorinator:

ICP test results, 90 gallon Mixed Reef w/ Tapwater

Just wanted to show the ATI ICP test results for a mixed reef system maintained with tap water. Often what I've seen when aquarists post problems blame is quickly attributed to water quality issues that aren't supported by the research I've read and experiences I've had over the last couple of de...

www.austinreefclub.com

As far as nitrates are conserned you might consider trying to lower it as all forms and suorces on nitrogen need to be considered. I know it's a fad right now to raise nitrates to color up corals but what's not taken into consideration is corals prefer urea, ammonia and then nitrates derived from fish over nitrates from anthropogenic sources. Also, corals have symbiotic diazotrophs that fix N2 for them. Organic nitrogen in the form of amino acids also needs to be considered as it is an important suorce for corals. Research has also shown dosing nitrates has a ngeative impact on corals. Here's some papers if you want to dig into it more:

Corals prefer fish poop, Nitrate dosing negatively impacts calcification

Context-dependent effects of nutrient loading on the coral-algal mutualism | Request PDF

Request PDF | Context-dependent effects of nutrient loading on the coral-algal mutualism | Human-mediated increases in nutrient availability alter patterns of primary production, impact species diversity, and threaten ecosystem function.... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on...

www.researchgate.net

Diazotrophs: a non-negligible source of nitrogen for the tropical coral Stylophora pistillata

Diazotrophs: a non-negligible source of nitrogen for the tropical coral Stylophora pistillata - PubMed

Corals are mixotrophs: they are able to fix inorganic carbon through the activity of their symbiotic dinoflagellates and to gain nitrogen from predation on plankton and uptake of dissolved organic and inorganic nutrients. They also live in close association with diverse diazotrophic communities...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Urea uptake prefered to nitrate

Urea uptake by the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

Urea can be one of the major sources of nitrogen for phytoplankton, but little is known about its importance for corals. Experiments were therefore de…

www.sciencedirect.com

Uptake of ammonium: (You'll need to do a search on Google Scholar with the term "Uptake of ammonium by the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata". There's an understandable issue with cookies preventing the link from working correctly.)

Uptake of amino acids

Uptake of dissolved free amino acids by the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

SUMMARY. This study was designed to assess the importance of dissolved free amino acids (DFAA) as a nitrogen source for the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata. For this purpose, experiments were performed using 15N-enriched DFAAs, and %15N enrichment was measured both in animal tissue and...

jeb.biologists.org

ANd cryptic sponges need to be considered also as they can be recycling nitrogen and dumping nitrogen enriched detritus back into the food web in your system.

(PDF) 2013 deGoeij Science Sponge loop

PDF | On Jun 23, 2015, Jasper M de Goeij and others published 2013 deGoeij Science Sponge loop | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Yeah... im gonna get no3 down to around 10... increased fuge photperiod from 5hrs to 8hrs... so we will see what happens... im gonna do waterchanges without buffering the water for a bit and see how that goes... im not thinking thats the issue though...

 

[cboltsd01]

I get my water from Scripps in San Diego... Ca, mag, and alk are on the lower side, still within a reasonable range though... Tests always come out the same everytime I check... CA 420 mag 1350 alk 6.8... I dose 50ml of b-ionic ca and alk to every 50 gallon water change I do every week to two weeks. Made all the calculations with reef calculator from what my tank runs and what the Scripps water comes in at... Tank runs at ca 455 mag 1475 alk 8.3, I basically left all the parameters the way it was after I still was using synthetic salt mixes and no carx... I was using RSCP... I run 61” hybrid with five g4 xr15s and a 48” hybrid with two g3 and two g4 xr15s... soft tank runs all b+ bulbs and hard corals use two C+ and two B+ bulbs... there is little to no growth, eventually they just rtn/stn then grow algae all over them... the sps I have left have no growth at all and grow algae in them in certain areas as well. Havent checked for stray voltage, tanks obviously okay when I put my hands in... I know thats not a dead giveaway, but eh... no metal I could think of in the tank... just magnets that visually look like they did when I bought them... no swelling or anything... I dont know anymore... hahahah

As a prior user of Scripps water with a dominant SPS tank, I completely stopped. I had a 110g that I was successful using it in, or so I thought. I upgraded to a 225g and had issues with color, growth and stn. I couldn't put my finger on it since I was so successful with my 110g. I did water changes on my 225g every week and couldn't figure out the cause. Then it hit me, with my 110g, I rarely did a water change, I ran that tank a solid 9 months and never changed the water. I dosed aminos and carbohydrates and it never missed a beat. So I started thinking, am I doing too many water changes on my 225g.
I dove in and did an ICP test. Scripps lacks trace elements needed to support the growth of SPS. From Strontium, Iodine, potassium, Boron...you name it. So here I was thinking I was replenishing these nutrients with weekly water changes from Scripps and all I was doing was depleting them. I started using TPM, but have since switched to Fritz. I started dosing Red Sea Color and Brightwell for Stronium since my tank drinks that stuff as a SPS dominant tank. My tank has done a 180 since these changes. I dont think your RODI has anything to do with it imo.

Do yourself a favor, drop 50$ on a ICP and see where your levels are. There is a lot more going on than just the big 3 (Alk, Cal, Mag) every tests for. You'll be surprised. Triton is the best imo and will give you dosage recommendations.

 

[PerplexyHexy]

As a prior user of Scripps water with a dominant SPS tank, I completely stopped. I had a 110g that I was successful using it in, or so I thought. I upgraded to a 225g and had issues with color, growth and stn. I couldn't put my finger on it since I was so successful with my 110g. I did water changes on my 225g every week and couldn't figure out the cause. Then it hit me, with my 110g, I rarely did a water change, I ran that tank a solid 9 months and never changed the water. I dosed aminos and carbohydrates and it never missed a beat. So I started thinking, am I doing too many water changes on my 225g.
I dove in and did an ICP test. Scripps lacks trace elements needed to support the growth of SPS. From Strontium, Iodine, potassium, Boron...you name it. So here I was thinking I was replenishing these nutrients with weekly water changes from Scripps and all I was doing was depleting them. I started using TPM, but have since switched to Fritz. I started dosing Red Sea Color and Brightwell for Stronium since my tank drinks that stuff as a SPS dominant tank. My tank has done a 180 since these changes. I dont think your RODI has anything to do with it imo.

Do yourself a favor, drop 50$ on a ICP and see where your levels are. There is a lot more going on than just the big 3 (Alk, Cal, Mag) every tests for. You'll be surprised. Triton is the best imo and will give you dosage recommendations.

Thanks for the info... Im gonna stick it out with Scripps until my one year mark and then Im gonna switch to a synthetic salt mix... im dosing b-ionic 2 part to the water before water changes... arent there trace elements in the 2 part? And also a carx, doesnt that give off trace elements as well? Its looking like ICP is my best bet to figure out whats going on... I have the ATI ICP test... When is the best time to collect water for the test? I was figuring wed or thursday since I did a waterchange today...