I wanna keep sponges

[Timfish]

Work done by de Geoij has shown at least some sponges have an incredibly fast mitosis rate (cellular reproduction of ~8 hours, faster than most bacteria) but don't grow. Instead nitrogen and carbon rich detritus sloughs off and quickly is incorporated into the reef food webs. Whatever the mechanism is that lets them grow instead of sloughing off tissue is, as far as I've been able to find, an unknown. So even if you're feeding the right stuff, you still may not see any growth.

 

[lil sumpin]

These white sponges are taking off in my tank rn.. Im actually gonna toss some next WC

 

[Timfish]

. . . From what I've read they actually get most of their nutrition from dissolved organics with a preference for algae derived DOC. . . .

Actually sponges feed off any source of labile DOC (carbon dosing) irregardless of the source. Algae, depending on the species, may dump lots more DOC into the water than corals. Problems arise as sponges process algae DOC differently than coral DOC and release compounds that promote phase shifts to algae dominate ecosystems to the detriment of corals. Excess labile DOC has also been shown to allow heterotrophic bacteria to utilize the refractory DOC not normally available for consumption to proliferate and as one consequence reduce oxygen levels in coral microbiomes. Additionally, increases in bacterial growth from increases in labile DOC, even if the DOC is from corals, has been shown to negatively impact corals.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

From what I've read they actually get most of their nutrition from dissolved organics with a preference for algae derived DOC.

Just to add to Timfish's comment above - this is part of one of my quotes I've already suggested reading:

Most sponges that I’ve looked into primarily consume Dissolved Organic Matter (DOM - sometimes called Dissolved Organic Carbon, or DOC, which is actually a component of DOM) and specific kinds of bacteria (which kinds vary at least a little from one sponge to another). Most of them seem to have no preference for where their DOC comes from, but they have a preference for algal-derived Dissolved Organic Nitrogen (i.e. DON produced by algae).

That said, they'll still consume DON from other sources - they just seem to prefer it come from algae.

 

[randomfishdude]

I don't think I've gotten to that part of biology

 

[Weaverjay101]

A GALLON????

Yes. I culture a large mixture of phytoplankton and bacteria in a 30 gallon aquarium in my basement. I'm figuring more food is better for sponges. Time will tell if my method works

 

[randomfishdude]

Yes. I culture a large mixture of phytoplankton and bacteria in a 30 gallon aquarium in my basement. I'm figuring more food is better for sponges. Time will tell if my method works

To a 75gallon?

 

[Weaverjay101]

Actually sponges feed off any source of labile DOC (carbon dosing) irregardless of the source. Algae, depending on the species, may dump lots more DOC into the water than corals. Problems arise as sponges process algae DOC differently than coral DOC and release compounds that promote phase shifts to algae dominate ecosystems to the detriment of corals. Excess labile DOC has also been shown to allow heterotrophic bacteria to utilize the refractory DOC not normally available for consumption to proliferate and as one consequence reduce oxygen levels in coral microbiomes. Additionally, increases in bacterial growth from increases in labile DOC, even if the DOC is from corals, has been shown to negatively impact corals.

So would sponges feed off NOPOX?

 

[MoshJosh]

Given that sponges naturally host pineapples under the sea, I would start by adding those to your tank. . .


. . . :)

 

[Weaverjay101]

To a 75gallon?

Yes. Overkill maybe, but my water is always clear by morning so something is eating it all.

 

[randomfishdude]

Given the sponges naturally host pineapples under the sea, I would start by adding those to your tank. . .


. . . :)

I have the pineapple. Both the real type and the sponge type

 

[randomfishdude]

Yes. Overkill maybe, but my water is always clear by morning so something is eating it all.

Hm. I dumped about 200ml into mine over the course of 2 days since the bottle was at to expire.

 

[MoshJosh]

I have the pineapple. Both the real type and the sponge type

I was thinking something like this:

Sorry could not help myself!

That said, good luck on your endeavor, there are some awesome looking sea sponges out there!

 

[randomfishdude]

I was thinking something like this:

I know :)
I think SpongeBob lives in a massive pineapple sponge

 

[Subsea]

Yes. Overkill maybe, but my water is always clear by morning so something is eating it all.

I similarly dose large quantities of phyto where you could not see back glass and in 3 hours, water is crystal clear. The pico critters that eat the phytoplankton are the most likely food source for your ornamental sponges: POC (particulate organic carbon).

 

[Weaverjay101]

I similarly dose large quantities of phyto where you could not see back glass and in 3 hours, water is crystal clear. The pico critters that eat the phytoplankton are the most likely food source for your ornamental sponges: POC (particulate organic carbon).

How large of a dose do you use and for what size tank? My tank takes on a green cloudiness for a few hours

 

[Subsea]

How large of a dose do you use and for what size tank? My tank takes on a green cloudiness for a few hours

I have dosed 1G into a 55G tank. My phyto culture was not very dark, which I have found to be less prone to crash.

My tank makes its own phyto in that I grow ornamental macro whose exudates are laudable DOC (dissolved organic carbon) which is a food for sponges.

Diatoms are a type of phytoplankton and their crystalline truce requires silicates as do sponges.

 

[Timfish]

So would sponges feed off NOPOX?

Near as I've been able to ascertain, most sponges found on reefs will feed off any labile DOC (aka carbon dosing). In light of how problematic excess labile DOC is for corals it seems reasonable cryptic sponges have saved corals, at least on the short term, by removing it faster than microbes (1000X faster than bacterioplankton) when aquarists add it to thier systems. Unfortunately, one of the problems researchers are uncovering is sponges and algae work together to create positive feedback loops that promote algae dominance. I'm critisized for dropping data bombs but reef ecosystems are very complex and practices are being recommended that research shows is detrimental and will cause chonic to acute problems for corals. So here's some links if your interested in understanding better how reef ecosystens work,

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Microbial view of Coral Decline


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching


DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"




FYI: DOC can be roughly seperated into three catagories, Labile, Semirefractory and Refractory. Most of the following papaers are looking mainly at Labile DOC. This will raise the hackles on some reefers but keep in mind Labile DOC and Carbon Dosing are synonamous. Jasper deGeoij's work shows cryptic sponges remove labile DOC about a thousand times faster than bacterioplankton. Included are links to some of the research showing what cryptic sponges are doing as well. Also, researchers tend to use DOM (Dissolved Organic Matter) and DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbon) interchangebly.

Indirect effects of algae on coral: algae‐mediated, microbe‐induced coral mortality
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1461-0248.2006.00937.x
Influence of coral and algal exudates on microbially mediated reef metabolism.
Coral DOC improves oxygen (autotrophy), algae DOC reduces oxygen (heterotrophy).
https://peerj.com/articles/108/?utm_source=TrendMD&utm_campaign=PeerJ_TrendMD_0&utm_medium=TrendMD
Role of elevated organic carbon levels and microbial activity in coral mortality
http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2006/314/m314p119.pdf
Effects of Coral Reef Benthic Primary Producers on Dissolved Organic Carbon and Microbial Activity
Algae releases significantly more DOC into the water than coral.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0027973
Pathologies and mortality rates caused by organic carbon and nutrient stressors in three Caribbean coral species.
DOC caused coral death but not high nitrates, phosphates or ammonium.
http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2005/294/m294p173.pdf
Visualization of oxygen distribution patterns caused by coral and algae
https://peerj.com/articles/106/
Biological oxygen demand optode analysis of coral reef-associated microbial communities exposed to algal exudates
Exposure to exudates derived from turf algae stimulated higher oxygen drawdown by the coral-associated bacteria.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3719127/
Microbial ecology: Algae feed a shift on coral reefs
https://www.nature.com/articles/nmicrobiol201661
Coral and macroalgal exudates vary in neutral sugar composition and differentially enrich reef bacterioplankton lineages.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23303369
Sugar enrichment provides evidence for a role of nitrogen fixation in coral bleaching
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/gcb.13695
Elevated ammonium delays the impairment of the coral-dinoflagellate symbiosis during labile carbon pollution
(here's an argument for maintaining heavy fish loads if you're carbon dosing)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166445X19307192
Excess labile carbon promotes the expression of virulence factors in coral reef bacterioplankton
https://www.nature.com/articles/ismej2017142
Unseen players shape benthic competition on coral reefs.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22944243
Allelochemicals Produced by Brown Macroalgae of the Lobophora Genus Are Active against Coral Larvae and Associated Bacteria, Supporting Pathogenic Shifts to Vibrio Dominance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27795310
Macroalgae decrease growth and alter microbial community structure of the reef-building coral, Porites astreoides.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22957055
Macroalgal extracts induce bacterial assemblage shifts and sublethal tissue stress in Caribbean corals.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23028648
Biophysical and physiological processes causing oxygen loss from coral reefs.
https://elifesciences.org/articles/49114.pdf
Global microbialization of coral reefs
DDAM Proven
https://www.nature.com/articles/nmicrobiol201642
Coral Reef Microorganisms in a Changing Climate, Fig 3
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7096749/figure/fig3/
Ecosystem Microbiology of Coral Reefs: Linking Genomic, Metabolomic, and Biogeochemical Dynamics from Animal Symbioses to Reefscape Processes
https://msystems.asm.org/content/msys/3/2/e00162-17.full.pdf

Because sponges are essential players in the carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus cycle(s) on reefs here's some links to research done with them.

Element cycling on tropical coral reefs.
This is Jasper de Geoij's ground breaking research on reef sponge finding some species process labile DOC 1000X faster than bacterioplankton. (The introduction is in Dutch but the content is in English.)
https://www.rug.nl/research/portal/files/14555035/13completethesis.pdf
Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle
https://www.pnas.org/content/112/14/4191
Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges
https://www.pnas.org/content/112/14/4381
Differential recycling of coral and algal dissolved organic matter via the sponge loop.
Sponges treat DOC from algae differently than DOC from corals
https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1365-2435.12758
A Vicious Circle? Altered Carbon and Nutrient Cycling May Explain the Low Resilience of Caribbean Coral Reefs
https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/66/6/470/2754308
Surviving in a Marine Desert The Sponge Loop Retains Resources Within Coral Reefs
Dissolved organic carbon and nitrogen are quickly processed by sponges and released back into the reef food web in hours as carbon and nitrogen rich detritus.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279061640_2013_deGoeij_Science_Sponge_loop
Natural Diet of Coral-Excavating Sponges Consists Mainly of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3934968/
The Role of Marine Sponges in Carbon and Nitrogen Cycles of COral Reefs and Nearshore Environments.
https://search.proquest.com/openvie...9d1e5/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y

 

[Weaverjay101]

Near as I've been able to ascertain, most sponges found on reefs will feed off any labile DOC (aka carbon dosing). In light of how problematic excess labile DOC is for corals it seems reasonable cryptic sponges have saved corals, at least on the short term, by removing it faster than microbes (1000X faster than bacterioplankton) when aquarists add it to thier systems. Unfortunately, one of the problems researchers are uncovering is sponges and algae work together to create positive feedback loops that promote algae dominance. I'm critisized for dropping data bombs but reef ecosystems are very complex and practices are being recommended that research shows is detrimental and will cause chonic to acute problems for corals. So here's some links if your interested in understanding better how reef ecosystens work,

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Microbial view of Coral Decline


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching


DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"




FYI: DOC can be roughly seperated into three catagories, Labile, Semirefractory and Refractory. Most of the following papaers are looking mainly at Labile DOC. This will raise the hackles on some reefers but keep in mind Labile DOC and Carbon Dosing are synonamous. Jasper deGeoij's work shows cryptic sponges remove labile DOC about a thousand times faster than bacterioplankton. Included are links to some of the research showing what cryptic sponges are doing as well. Also, researchers tend to use DOM (Dissolved Organic Matter) and DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbon) interchangebly.

Indirect effects of algae on coral: algae‐mediated, microbe‐induced coral mortality
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1461-0248.2006.00937.x
Influence of coral and algal exudates on microbially mediated reef metabolism.
Coral DOC improves oxygen (autotrophy), algae DOC reduces oxygen (heterotrophy).
https://peerj.com/articles/108/?utm_source=TrendMD&utm_campaign=PeerJ_TrendMD_0&utm_medium=TrendMD
Role of elevated organic carbon levels and microbial activity in coral mortality
http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2006/314/m314p119.pdf
Effects of Coral Reef Benthic Primary Producers on Dissolved Organic Carbon and Microbial Activity
Algae releases significantly more DOC into the water than coral.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0027973
Pathologies and mortality rates caused by organic carbon and nutrient stressors in three Caribbean coral species.
DOC caused coral death but not high nitrates, phosphates or ammonium.
http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2005/294/m294p173.pdf
Visualization of oxygen distribution patterns caused by coral and algae
https://peerj.com/articles/106/
Biological oxygen demand optode analysis of coral reef-associated microbial communities exposed to algal exudates
Exposure to exudates derived from turf algae stimulated higher oxygen drawdown by the coral-associated bacteria.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3719127/
Microbial ecology: Algae feed a shift on coral reefs
https://www.nature.com/articles/nmicrobiol201661
Coral and macroalgal exudates vary in neutral sugar composition and differentially enrich reef bacterioplankton lineages.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23303369
Sugar enrichment provides evidence for a role of nitrogen fixation in coral bleaching
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/gcb.13695
Elevated ammonium delays the impairment of the coral-dinoflagellate symbiosis during labile carbon pollution
(here's an argument for maintaining heavy fish loads if you're carbon dosing)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166445X19307192
Excess labile carbon promotes the expression of virulence factors in coral reef bacterioplankton
https://www.nature.com/articles/ismej2017142
Unseen players shape benthic competition on coral reefs.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22944243
Allelochemicals Produced by Brown Macroalgae of the Lobophora Genus Are Active against Coral Larvae and Associated Bacteria, Supporting Pathogenic Shifts to Vibrio Dominance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27795310
Macroalgae decrease growth and alter microbial community structure of the reef-building coral, Porites astreoides.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22957055
Macroalgal extracts induce bacterial assemblage shifts and sublethal tissue stress in Caribbean corals.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23028648
Biophysical and physiological processes causing oxygen loss from coral reefs.
https://elifesciences.org/articles/49114.pdf
Global microbialization of coral reefs
DDAM Proven
https://www.nature.com/articles/nmicrobiol201642
Coral Reef Microorganisms in a Changing Climate, Fig 3
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7096749/figure/fig3/
Ecosystem Microbiology of Coral Reefs: Linking Genomic, Metabolomic, and Biogeochemical Dynamics from Animal Symbioses to Reefscape Processes
https://msystems.asm.org/content/msys/3/2/e00162-17.full.pdf

Because sponges are essential players in the carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus cycle(s) on reefs here's some links to research done with them.

Element cycling on tropical coral reefs.
This is Jasper de Geoij's ground breaking research on reef sponge finding some species process labile DOC 1000X faster than bacterioplankton. (The introduction is in Dutch but the content is in English.)
https://www.rug.nl/research/portal/files/14555035/13completethesis.pdf
Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle
https://www.pnas.org/content/112/14/4191
Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges
https://www.pnas.org/content/112/14/4381
Differential recycling of coral and algal dissolved organic matter via the sponge loop.
Sponges treat DOC from algae differently than DOC from corals
https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1365-2435.12758
A Vicious Circle? Altered Carbon and Nutrient Cycling May Explain the Low Resilience of Caribbean Coral Reefs
https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/66/6/470/2754308
Surviving in a Marine Desert The Sponge Loop Retains Resources Within Coral Reefs
Dissolved organic carbon and nitrogen are quickly processed by sponges and released back into the reef food web in hours as carbon and nitrogen rich detritus.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279061640_2013_deGoeij_Science_Sponge_loop
Natural Diet of Coral-Excavating Sponges Consists Mainly of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3934968/
The Role of Marine Sponges in Carbon and Nitrogen Cycles of COral Reefs and Nearshore Environments.
https://search.proquest.com/openvie...9d1e5/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y

I am a colossal nerd so knowledge bombs are most welcomed! I'm personally attempting to do a sponge and macroalgae dominated tank, so the positive feedback loop is good news for me.

 

[randomfishdude]

I am a colossal nerd so knowledge bombs are most welcomed!

I'm not :( I'm only a quarter way done.