ICH in DT and need Advice on Potential Solutions

[SAM2023]

Yes, I prefer to start counting when all spots are gone, but some people start counting when they hit 1.009

Jay

Noted will follow that day count rule.
However, this AM, I saw a fistful of dead bristle worms lying on sand and couple of pink tip (4inch diameter when live) dead on sand. I removed all of these dead stuff out of the tank. When alive, I couldn't take bristle worms out as hard to do that & the 2 anemones because of aggressive clownfish won't allow me and wanted to keep some live rock to which they were attached. Yesterday, I had fed the fish only 40% of what I usually do expecting something like this.

This spike in ammonia is due to the dead items (most likely) and it is up from 0.00 to about 1.0 PPM (4th block in the test kit from top).

What should be my next step to manage ammonia? Is water change the way to go ensuring salinity stays at where it is at 1.0090?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Noted will follow that day count rule.
However, this AM, I saw a fistful of dead bristle worms lying on sand and couple of pink tip (4inch diameter when live) dead on sand. I removed all of these dead stuff out of the tank. When alive, I couldn't take bristle worms out as hard to do that & the 2 anemones because of aggressive clownfish won't allow me and wanted to keep some live rock to which they were attached. Yesterday, I had fed the fish only 40% of what I usually do expecting something like this.

This spike in ammonia is due to the dead items (most likely) and it is up from 0.00 to about 1.0 PPM (4th block in the test kit from top).

What should be my next step to manage ammonia? Is water change the way to go ensuring salinity stays at where it is at 1.0090?

Oh - there are still anemones in the tank? Those must be removed prior to running hypo. At the very least, they will die, and at the worst, they will create an ammonia spike like you are seeing. Damage control in this case is to get all of the dead material out of the tank, use a siphon and get under all of the rocks. Then, replace that water with newly mixed, low salinity water. Finally, use Amquel to detoxify the ammonia until it drops on its own.

Jay

 

[SAM2023]

Hey,
Thank you so much for the reply.

Yes just a couple of anemones out of the 10.
Will do one more siphon in sometime & replace water.
Just ordered Amquel plus, will come in tomorrow.

Thanks

 

[SAM2023]

Hey,
Thank you so much for the reply.

Yes just a couple of anemones out of the 10.
Will do one more siphon in sometime & replace water.
Just ordered Amquel plus, will come in tomorrow.

Thanks

By the way I have a bottle of “

Seachem Prime Fresh and Saltwater Conditioner - Chemical Remover and Detoxifier 500 ml”​

It says detoxifies ammonia, nitrite, nitrates. Can I use this until I get the Amquel in hand?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

By the way I have a bottle of “

Seachem Prime Fresh and Saltwater Conditioner - Chemical Remover and Detoxifier 500 ml”​

It says detoxifies ammonia, nitrite, nitrates. Can I use this until I get the Amquel in hand?

Prime has a bit of a mixed history for handling ammonia in aquariums. I personally prefer Amquel, but with 1 ppm ammonia, you need to deal with that ASAP, so I would say, yes, use that!

Jay

 

[SAM2023]

Hi Jay,
I had replaced 25 Gs of water in my 150G and siphoned the sand last night. Also added Prime but Ammonia won't drop. Today noon, I got my Amquel delivery and dosed that and Ammonia went down from 1.5 P to 0.75P. They say I have to wait 24 hours for another dose.
Magnificent Fox Fish showing massive sluggishness and imbalance in holding steady since 10 hours. Could be Ammonia affectim him the most. NO deaths yet.
My PH is going down like you had warned and even when I put PH buffer it goes low in an hour or two. It hasn't gone down below 7.9 but when it comes close to 7.9 I put the buffer.
IF any other advice or do's and don't please comment when you get a moment.
Appreciate help as always.
Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay,
I had replaced 25 Gs of water in my 150G and siphoned the sand last night. Also added Prime but Ammonia won't drop. Today noon, I got my Amquel delivery and dosed that and Ammonia went down from 1.5 P to 0.75P. They say I have to wait 24 hours for another dose.
Magnificent Fox Fish showing massive sluggishness and imbalance in holding steady since 10 hours. Could be Ammonia affectim him the most. NO deaths yet.
My PH is going down like you had warned and even when I put PH buffer it goes low in an hour or two. It hasn't gone down below 7.9 but when it comes close to 7.9 I put the buffer.
IF any other advice or do's and don't please comment when you get a moment.
Appreciate help as always.
Thanks

I would not buffer the pH unless it goes below 7.5 or so. turns out, the lower the pH, the less toxic the ammonia is! You can actually manage ammonia toxicity by lowering the pH intentionally.

Jay

 

[SAM2023]

Monday, July 24 is when I reached hypo salinity of 1.0090. First 2 days since then, ammonia was 0.00 however, day 3 onwards and until now ammonia has been in the 1.5 to 2.5 range. Water changes/Amqueil is not helping. (May be Amquel is helping but as I read Amquel makes ammonia less toxic but test reading will show high ammonia as it can’t distinguish between less toxic and toxic ammonia).
A part of the reason I believe for ammonia simple was two anemones deaths and a bunch of bristle worms deaths that I could only take out after they came out hours after they died as a result of hypo.

I notice water has been cloudy from 2 days and also a thick layer of white film on the glass (almost 70% of all the glass) that I scraped & let it flow to the sump . Not sure if this was to be done or not. I hope I didn’t scrape out beneficial bacteria.

Below are test results from my hypo DT, and just ammonia test result from my 27G Qt Where I have kept the corals/invertd with the same stones from DT and same water (no hypo in this QT)

DT TEMP is staying under 80F and PH around 7.7 to 7.8.
I am wondering what should be next steps for my DTs ammonia problem as my two fox faces are moving a bit but with face down as if they have lost balance “. This is the case from 2 days. Except fox face no other fish has this symptom and other fish are eating as well (30% of how much they used to eat )

 

[SAM2023]

Monday, July 24 is when I reached hypo salinity of 1.0090. First 2 days since then, ammonia was 0.00 however, day 3 onwards and until now ammonia has been in the 1.5 to 2.5 range. Water changes/Amqueil is not helping. (May be Amquel is helping but as I read Amquel makes ammonia less toxic but test reading will show high ammonia as it can’t distinguish between less toxic and toxic ammonia).
A part of the reason I believe for ammonia simple was two anemones deaths and a bunch of bristle worms deaths that I could only take out after they came out hours after they died as a result of hypo.

I notice water has been cloudy from 2 days and also a thick layer of white film on the glass (almost 70% of all the glass) that I scraped & let it flow to the sump . Not sure if this was to be done or not. I hope I didn’t scrape out beneficial bacteria.

Below are test results from my hypo DT, and just ammonia test result from my 27G Qt Where I have kept the corals/invertd with the same stones from DT and same water (no hypo in this QT)

DT TEMP is staying under 80F and PH around 7.7 to 7.8.
I am wondering what should be next steps for my DTs ammonia problem as my two fox faces are moving a bit but with face down as if they have lost balance “. This is the case from 2 days. Except fox face no other fish has this symptom and other fish are eating as well (30% of how much they used to eat )

Also, Adding a video of DT from just now.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Also, Adding a video of DT from just now.

A couple of things - you MUST add aeration to that tank ASAP! If the tank has a sump with a powerful protein skimmer, you might be o.k., but otherwise, you need to be breaking the surface tension of the water with bubbles. An air pump with an air stone at the bottom of the tank is the best way to do this.

Secondly, as we discussed, the dead anemones are causing an on-going ammonia spike. Ammonia continues to build up, even after adding Amquel or doing water changes. You may need to do more water changes with low salinity water in order to keep it in a better range for the fish.

Overall, the fish don't look bad - just breathing a bit heavily, likely due to the lack of aeration.

Jay

 

[SAM2023]

Also, Adding a video of DT from just now.

A couple of things - you MUST add aeration to that tank ASAP! If the tank has a sump with a powerful protein skimmer, you might be o.k., but otherwise, you need to be breaking the surface tension of the water with bubbles. An air pump with an air stone at the bottom of the tank is the best way to do this.

Secondly, as we discussed, the dead anemones are causing an on-going ammonia spike. Ammonia continues to build up, even after adding Amquel or doing water changes. You may need to do more water changes with low salinity water in order to keep it in a better range for the fish.

Overall, the fish don't look bad - just breathing a bit heavily, likely due to the lack of aeration.

Jay

Had a good size skimmer but also now added 2 air stones.
Perhaps will wait a day to see if water Change is needed, because the fish really get stressed with so many water changes that already occurred in last 7 days.

 

[SAM2023]

Also, Adding a video of DT from just now.

A couple of things - you MUST add aeration to that tank ASAP! If the tank has a sump with a powerful protein skimmer, you might be o.k., but otherwise, you need to be breaking the surface tension of the water with bubbles. An air pump with an air stone at the bottom of the tank is the best way to do this.

Secondly, as we discussed, the dead anemones are causing an on-going ammonia spike. Ammonia continues to build up, even after adding Amquel or doing water changes. You may need to do more water changes with low salinity water in order to keep it in a better range for the fish.

Overall, the fish don't look bad - just breathing a bit heavily, likely due to the lack of aeration.

Jay

Had a good size skimmer but also now added 2 air stones.
Perhaps will wait a day to see if water Change is needed, because the fish really get stressed with so many water changes that already occurred in last 7 days.

 

[SAM2023]

Update:
Did about 25% water change twice Sunday AM and Monday AM (maintaining Salinity at 1.0090 and PH around 7.9)
NH3 still around 2.0. No casualties but both fox faces and now hippo swimming slowly and seems loss of balance. This morning fish don't seem to go for the little food I put.
I am wondering if I should do a 40% water change at once tonight (max capacity of water change I can do at once) as this will help reduce NH3 much more than two 20% changes.
SKimmer/WaveMaker/Bubblers are still on.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update:
Did about 25% water change twice Sunday AM and Monday AM (maintaining Salinity at 1.0090 and PH around 7.9)
NH3 still around 2.0. No casualties but both fox faces and now hippo swimming slowly and seems loss of balance. This morning fish don't seem to go for the little food I put.
I am wondering if I should do a 40% water change at once tonight (max capacity of water change I can do at once) as this will help reduce NH3 much more than two 20% changes.
SKimmer/WaveMaker/Bubblers are still on.

Yes, doing a single larger water change removes more ammonia than two smaller ones well, just match up the 1.009 SG.

Have you added more Amquel?

Jay

 

[SAM2023]

Hi,

Not added Amqueil to Dt Recently.
The last time I added to DT was about 30 hours ago,
however I am Adding the recommended amount to the 2 water changes I did within 30 hours .

 

[SAM2023]

I did a 35% water chance last night and since then all fish (including the 2 fox faces who were most affected) are much happier even at not so great nh3 levels. NH3 went down from 2 to 1 though but still high. Will
Plan to do another 35% tonight .
Ph stays around 7.85.

 

[SAM2023]

Update - Wednesday 11 AM EST :
NH3 Down to 0.6. PH around 7.85. Salinity maintained at 1.0090.
No Deaths & All Fish eating/moving (including the 2 foxface fishes who appeared to be most troubled due to high NH3).
This is day 12 of Hypo and Day 7 of No Spots of Ich. Accordingly, I have another 23 days of Hypo to be maintained at a minimum.
I hope my ongoing updates are not bothering and I think they will be helpful to someone else in future.

Thank you all & especially Thanks a lot to Jay Hemdal.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update - Wednesday 11 AM EST :
NH3 Down to 0.6. PH around 7.85. Salinity maintained at 1.0090.
No Deaths & All Fish eating/moving (including the 2 foxface fishes who appeared to be most troubled due to high NH3).
This is day 12 of Hypo and Day 7 of No Spots of Ich. Accordingly, I have another 23 days of Hypo to be maintained at a minimum.
I hope my ongoing updates are not bothering and I think they will be helpful to someone else in future.

Thank you all & especially Thanks a lot to Jay Hemdal.

Good deal! Aside from the ammonia spike, this is how hypo should work.....

Jay

 

[wisnia99]

I will add my 2 cents. I have anew tank 6 months (I had tanks before) and had and ich outbreak just feed a lot and make the fish happy. They will fight it off. Just remember stressed fish = Sick fish. My personal opinion is that you have to many big fish in your tank they are getting stressed and I think it will just get worse the longer you go.

 

[SAM2023]

Today is day 36 of Hypo salinity and Day 31 for No Spots/Signs of Ich. Happy to report that there is NO LOSS of fish due to Ich. Unfortunately last week, my Apex Temperature probe broke and that raised temperature to 90 F overnight causing my 10 inch queen angel/3.5 inch Flame and 3.5 inch coral beauty's demise. However, want to emphasis that the Hyposalinity works well. I had ammonia spike but that was due to a very large (5 inch) snail that I just forgot to take out as he kept hidden at the back near the black water column in my waterbox and he barely moves but with his death there was a lot of ammonia for a week in the beginning.

I am starting to now increase salinity over 4 days (in ten 5 gallon water replacements) back to 1.022 - 1.024 range.

I am so glad that this has worked for me removing ich parasite from my tank. My corals/anemones are doing well in the separate tank and they will be moved back in in another 14 days (i.e total 50 days of fallow water for the ich in it to be dead).