ICH in DT and need Advice on Potential Solutions

SAM2023

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Single Dad's and Kid's Tank facing Issues. If you can, Please read in full as I have detailed information noted below.

150 G DT (55 by 26 by 22) and 30 G Sump
UB 57 Watts plus UV 25 Watts both intake/outflow in the last section of the sump (from where we place the return to the DT)
Protein Skimmer and Two powerheads.
Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate very high PH 8.2 Salinity 1.022 Temp 80F

Livestock

Non-FIsh Livestock : 6 or 7 Pink anemones, 4 Yuma and 1 GSP and 1 Riccorda

Fish Livestock : Number of Fish 15 - Total Fish Length 78 Inches Total Fish Area 264 Square Inches. SIGNS of Ich since 7/10/23 & growing. All fish moving and eating like usual (very well). Feeding Mysis/Brine/Nori/Td Chroma pellets/Half Clams form LFS - All soaked in Selcon and Garlic.

Fish Details -

Angel - Blue Ring 5.5 Inches - Ich Spots
D Angel - Coral Beauty 2.5 Inches
Angel - Emperor 7 Inches - Ich Spots
D Angel - Flame 2 Inches
Angel - Queen 9 Inches - Ich Spots
Clown Fish 3.5 Inches
Red Corris Wrasse 6 Inches
Rabbitfish - Magnificent Fox 7 Inches - Ich Spots
Rabbitfish - Yellow Fox 6 Inches - Ich Spots
Tang - Atlantic Blue 5 Inches
Tang - Chocolate 4 Inches
Tang - Hippo 4.5 Inches - Ich Spots & one Cloudy Eye
Tang - Sailfin 4.5 Inches - Ich Spots
Trigger - Blue Throat 5 Inches
Trigger - Clown 6 Inches

I understand it is overstocked after my another post on social media and I will rehome some fish (2 Triggers and 1 FoxFace and 2 Tangs) - once I resolve issue at hand.

Questions -

1) I am planning to move my both UV's intake/outflow in my DT so it gets less of it's own water that it just threw out in that little section of sump as it is doing now. Do you think this step will be in a positive direction? If this helps magically and I give away 4 or more fish once they are okay, will I still have a good chance of ICH again even If I don't get anything new in my tank?
2) Is moving corals anemones into a QT and making Hypo salinity in DT for 30 days a viable and better option? I can go down from 1.020 to 1.010 in 3 water changes over 3 days. Will this kill ICH?
3) Copper Treatment: Most would say this is the best option so I am trying consider this given I have little space for a proper QT, If I go this route I will use the 2 bath tubs I have. Is Copper Safe better or Cupramine? Do I used UV and Protein skimmer in QT while giving Copper Treatment? Can I do Copper and Hypo both or its a NO-NO ?

Any tried and tested help appreciated. I am a single dad with 2 jobs so limited by time & space as I live in the city. Kindly advise.
 
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vetteguy53081

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Single Dad's and Kid's Tank facing Issues. If you can, Please read in full as I have detailed information noted below.

150 G DT (55 by 26 by 22) and 30 G Sump
UB 57 Watts plus UV 25 Watts both intake/outflow in the last section of the sump (from where we place the return to the DT)
Protein Skimmer and Two powerheads.
Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate very high PH 8.2 Salinity 1.022 Temp 80F

Livestock

Non-FIsh Livestock : 6 or 7 Pink anemones, 4 Yuma and 1 GSP and 1 Riccorda

Fish Livestock : Number of Fish 15 - Total Fish Length 78 Inches Total Fish Area 264 Square Inches. SIGNS of Ich since 7/10/23 & growing. All fish moving and eating like usual (very well). Feeding Mysis/Brine/Nori/Td Chroma pellets/Half Clams form LFS - All soaked in Selcon and Garlic.

Fish Details -

Angel - Blue Ring 6 Inches - Ich Spots
Angel - Coral Beauty 6 Inches
Angel - Emperor 3.5 Inches - Ich Spots
D Angel - Flame 7 Inches
D Angel - Queen 7 Inches - Ich Spots
Clown Fish 6 Inches
Red Corris Wrasse 5 Inches
Rabbitfish - Magnificent Fox 9 Inches - Ich Spots
Rabbitfish - Yellow Fox 5 Inches - Ich Spots
Tang - Atlantic Blue 5.5 Inches
Tang - Chocolate 4.5 Inches
Tang - Hippo 2 Inches - Ich Spots & One Cloudy Eye
Tang - Sailfin 2.5 Inches - Ich Spots
Trigger - Blue Throat 4 Inches
Trigger - Clown 4.5 Inches

I understand it is overstocked after my another post on social media and I will rehome some fish (2 Triggers and 1 FoxFace and 2 Tangs) - once I resolve issue at hand.

Questions -

1) I am planning to move my both UV's intake/outflow in my DT so it gets less of it's own water that it just threw out in that little section of sump as it is doing now. Do you think this step will be in a positive direction? If this helps magically and I give away 4 or more fish once they are okay, will I still have a good chance of ICH again even If I don't get anything new in my tank?
2) Is moving corals anemones into a QT and making Hypo salinity in DT for 30 days a viable and better option? I can go down from 1.020 to 1.010 in 3 water changes over 3 days. Will this kill ICH?
3) Copper Treatment: Most would say this is the best option so I am trying consider this given I have little space for a proper QT, If I go this route I will use the 2 bath tubs I have. Is Copper Safe better or Cupramine? Do I used UV and Protein skimmer in QT while giving Copper Treatment? Can I do Copper and Hypo both or its a NO-NO ?

Any tried and tested help appreciated. I am a single dad with 2 jobs so limited by time & space as I live in the city. Kindly advise.
While UV will help, it will address what passes through the unit's channel and not remove parasites existing as assumed by many. Ich is always possible but controlled. Leave coral and anemones in display and leave dispaly fallow (without fish)
Coppersafe is best and either Hypo or copper but I dont recommend both. Cupramine is ionic and can be lethal if not applied properly.
Recommended is to treat in your tubs using Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
Attempt salinity at 1.023-1.024 and Ph 8.2 is very good.
 
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SAM2023

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While UV will help, it will address what passes through the unit's channel and not remove parasites existing as assumed by many. Ich is always possible but controlled. Leave coral and anemones in display and leave dispaly fallow (without fish)
Coppersafe is best and either Hypo or copper but I dont recommend both. Cupramine is ionic and can be lethal if not applied properly.
Recommended is to treat in your tubs using Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
Thank You Vettegy53081. Water changes of 33% every 48 hours will work or it has to be more in % and more frequent ? Or can this be a function of ammonia levels?
 

MnFish1

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Single Dad's and Kid's Tank facing Issues. If you can, Please read in full as I have detailed information noted below.

150 G DT (55 by 26 by 22) and 30 G Sump
UB 57 Watts plus UV 25 Watts both intake/outflow in the last section of the sump (from where we place the return to the DT)
Protein Skimmer and Two powerheads.
Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate very high PH 8.2 Salinity 1.022 Temp 80F

Livestock

Non-FIsh Livestock : 6 or 7 Pink anemones, 4 Yuma and 1 GSP and 1 Riccorda

Fish Livestock : Number of Fish 15 - Total Fish Length 78 Inches Total Fish Area 264 Square Inches. SIGNS of Ich since 7/10/23 & growing. All fish moving and eating like usual (very well). Feeding Mysis/Brine/Nori/Td Chroma pellets/Half Clams form LFS - All soaked in Selcon and Garlic.

Fish Details -

Angel - Blue Ring 6 Inches - Ich Spots
Angel - Coral Beauty 6 Inches
Angel - Emperor 3.5 Inches - Ich Spots
D Angel - Flame 7 Inches
D Angel - Queen 7 Inches - Ich Spots
Clown Fish 6 Inches
Red Corris Wrasse 5 Inches
Rabbitfish - Magnificent Fox 9 Inches - Ich Spots
Rabbitfish - Yellow Fox 5 Inches - Ich Spots
Tang - Atlantic Blue 5.5 Inches
Tang - Chocolate 4.5 Inches
Tang - Hippo 2 Inches - Ich Spots & One Cloudy Eye
Tang - Sailfin 2.5 Inches - Ich Spots
Trigger - Blue Throat 4 Inches
Trigger - Clown 4.5 Inches

I understand it is overstocked after my another post on social media and I will rehome some fish (2 Triggers and 1 FoxFace and 2 Tangs) - once I resolve issue at hand.

Questions -

1) I am planning to move my both UV's intake/outflow in my DT so it gets less of it's own water that it just threw out in that little section of sump as it is doing now. Do you think this step will be in a positive direction? If this helps magically and I give away 4 or more fish once they are okay, will I still have a good chance of ICH again even If I don't get anything new in my tank?
2) Is moving corals anemones into a QT and making Hypo salinity in DT for 30 days a viable and better option? I can go down from 1.020 to 1.010 in 3 water changes over 3 days. Will this kill ICH?
3) Copper Treatment: Most would say this is the best option so I am trying consider this given I have little space for a proper QT, If I go this route I will use the 2 bath tubs I have. Is Copper Safe better or Cupramine? Do I used UV and Protein skimmer in QT while giving Copper Treatment? Can I do Copper and Hypo both or its a NO-NO ?

Any tried and tested help appreciated. I am a single dad with 2 jobs so limited by time & space as I live in the city. Kindly advise.
Curious - did you post a similar question a couple days ago? - only because I answered someone who had a similar plan.

To answer your specific questions:

1. It's always best to take water from one area, and put it back into another area (i.e. I think you're doing it incorrectly). I don't like tubes in my display tank - so I would say have the intake of your UV in the area where the tank water is just entering the sump. Put the output of your UV downstream so that it minimizes 'recirculation'.
2. There is a hypo salinity protocol above usually down to 1.009 for 30 days. My answer depends on how well you think you can manage your corals, etc - in another tank - i.e. lighting, etc etc THEY would have to be left in their other tank for a fallow period - 45-76 days depending on the protocol
3. IMHO - a QT tank is your best option, (actually a hospital tank) - treat with copper - if you want to do the prazipro step - all good. BUT - then you would leave your display fallow for the 45-76 days.

I would not use copper and hypo (too stressful). You do not need a skimmer. I would not use a bathtub. Use a food grade rubbermaid tub.
 

MnFish1

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I will use the 2 bath tubs I have.
PS - if I misunderstood this - apologies. A bath tub is something people bathe in. I would not use that!
 

Jason_MrFrags

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Best treatment is to remove all fish and treat with some form of copper and allow tank to run Fallow.
2nd and probably easiest would be to remove corals/inverts and hyposalinity system 35-45 days, no need for water changes. Just remove the water and allow ato to fill with rodi. Or do one big change if you have the RODI sitting around. Your allowed to drop salinity as fast, but when its all done raising salinity is done slowly.
 

vetteguy53081

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Thank You Vettegy53081. Water changes of 33% every 48 hours will work or it has to be more in % and more frequent ? Or can this be a function of ammonia levels?
Monitor ammonia and are tubs bath tubs or rubbermaid tubs? I would utilize rubbermaid tubs after washed out are sterile opposed to bath tubs. 3 days will not amount to much treatment - follow copper protocol mentioned which is most effective.
Also - How did you confirm ich ?
Please provide any pics if you can under white lighting. Again change water as needed as you want to maintain copper levels
 
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SAM2023

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Pics from just now. Day 10 since first Ich spot seen.

Hippo with Ich and 1 eye cloudy.
Magnificent Fox with multiple spots (this pic seems to imply its sand but it is not)
Emperor can be seen with Ich spots too. He scratched his body a bit now because I tried to move the UV from sump to DT. So everybody was a bit scared and hence pictures didn't come out good enough to show spots.

The video I am sending is from Day 2 since Ich spot was seen.

Noted your responses & am thankful for them. Also, answering some Q's that were raised.
Yes, I am referring to Standard Condominium Bath Tubs. I have never taken a shower in it as me and my kid only use Walking Showers. It has the standard white coating on it, it that why you guys are concerned on using it. I can buy plastic tubs but It won't be long enough space for these fishes & they may feel even more stressed and go after each other when in QT.
 

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SAM2023

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One more thing - it is not velvet, I am certain it is ich. If it was velvet I would not have seen day 10.
 

Jay Hemdal

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One more thing - it is not velvet, I am certain it is ich. If it was velvet I would not have seen day 10.

Yes - the fish have a moderate case of ich. What happens in crowded systems is that the "propagule pressure" - the infective tomites/theronts in the water are in such great numbers, that ich management usually fails. I think your best option will be to move the inverts out and run hyposalinity in the DT. I say this because it looks to me that your value in fish is much higher than in invertebrates, so you want to give the fish the best possible chance. I do not like to move fish into brand new tanks/vats to treat for ich - too much of a risk of ammonia problems.

Here is our thread on hyposalinity:

Jay
 
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SAM2023

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Yes - the fish have a moderate case of ich. What happens in crowded systems is that the "propagule pressure" - the infective tomites/theronts in the water are in such great numbers, that ich management usually fails. I think your best option will be to move the inverts out and run hyposalinity in the DT. I say this because it looks to me that your value in fish is much higher than in invertebrates, so you want to give the fish the best possible chance. I do not like to move fish into brand new tanks/vats to treat for ich - too much of a risk of ammonia problems.

Here is our thread on hyposalinity:

Jay
Hi Jay, yes you are right the anemones and corals would be around $650 or so but the replacement cost of fish could be close to 3.5K. (since they grew bigger now).

I agree hyposalinity is far easier/less work/and suitable for my case given the fish to coral ratio and me not having QT tanks.

I saw the thread on hyposalinity that you referred me to. Amazing info. I think I’ll that route. I have a ATC salinity checker where you put 2 drops of water on a screen and then view it from a eyehole (looks like a binocular but with one lens) . I suppose that is good enough.

I plan to go down from my current 1.020 to 1.090 in perhaps 4 or 5 steps over 2 days. Thanks for the math.

I assume I can run the skimmer and UV as usual here, if not let me know. “??

Can I continue to dose Polyplab medic for the remaining 10 days out of the total 20 days course??

Thanks again.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Hi Jay, yes you are right the anemones and corals would be around $650 or so but the replacement cost of fish could be close to 3.5K. (since they grew bigger now).

I agree hyposalinity is far easier/less work/and suitable for my case given the fish to coral ratio and me not having QT tanks.

I saw the thread on hyposalinity that you referred me to. Amazing info. I think I’ll that route. I have a ATC salinity checker where you put 2 drops of water on a screen and then view it from a eyehole (looks like a binocular but with one lens) . I suppose that is good enough.

I plan to go down from my current 1.020 to 1.090 in perhaps 4 or 5 steps over 2 days. Thanks for the math.

I assume I can run the skimmer and UV as usual here, if not let me know. “??

Can I continue to dose Polyplab medic for the remaining 10 days out of the total 20 days course??

Thanks again.
Yes, run your UV and skimmer during hyposalinity, but the skimmer may not foam as much. I’ve not run polyp lab medic during hypo, but it should be ok. You might contact the company to double check though.
Jay
 
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SAM2023

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Yes, run your UV and skimmer during hyposalinity, but the skimmer may not foam as much. I’ve not run polyp lab medic during hypo, but it should be ok. You might contact the company to double check though.
Jay
Hi Jay,

I’m just did step 1 of water change. Salinity down to 1.017 from 1.022. PH constant at 8.3. Used the water that was taken out from DT for corals (took the most I could about 75% ) as the clown fish wouldn’t let me take the last 3/4 anemones.

Right now fish look fine. Will aim to do 3 more water changes in next 36 hours to get to Salinity of 1.009. A video and couple of pics attached. Will need move 1 light from DT to the coral tub else coral May die.
 

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Jay Hemdal

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Hi Jay,

I’m just did step 1 of water change. Salinity down to 1.017 from 1.022. PH constant at 8.3. Used the water that was taken out from DT for corals (took the most I could about 75% ) as the clown fish wouldn’t let me take the last 3/4 anemones.

Right now fish look fine. Will aim to do 3 more water changes in next 36 hours to get to Salinity of 1.009. A video and couple of pics attached. Will need move 1 light from DT to the coral tub else coral May die.
Looks good. Do you think your tank has good enough aeration? Is there a skimmer in the sump?
Jay
 
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SAM2023

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Looks good. Do you think your tank has good enough aeration? Is there a skimmer in the sump?
Jay
Assuming you are asking about the DT, yes a good skimmer. You can see it In the pic I posted today right behind the algae scrubber in Sump. The skimmer was off when I took the picture.

In the coral tub for now I have a bubble and a mini wavemaker I can add a small skimmer to it too that I have handy.
 
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SAM2023

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After 4 water changes within 48 hours I’m down from 1.022 to 1.0105 but not yet 1.0090. All fish thankfully are still alive and eating.

NH3 stayed at 0.00 so far even after removing 33% of rocks with corals.

Questions
1) Is the 1.0090 very critical or should I keep it at 1.0105? I might find it difficult to fine tune this as it’s so close to target. I could go a bit lower if that’s okay?
2) the PH used to be around 8.2 & it is now 8.09 and temperature is stays between 80 & 81 F. I think I read PH of 7.7 or more and 77F. Should I adjust these parameters to target too?


Thanks
Sagar
 
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SAM2023

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Assuming you are asking about the DT, yes a good skimmer. You can see it In the pic I posted today right behind the algae scrubber in Sump. The skimmer was off when I took the picture.

In the coral tub for now I have a bubble and a mini wavemaker I can add a small skimmer to it too that I have handy.
After 4 water changes within 48 hours I’m down from 1.022 to 1.0105 but not yet 1.0090. All fish thankfully are still alive and eating.

NH3 stayed at 0.00 so far even after removing 33% of rocks with corals.

Questions
1) Is the 1.0090 very critical or should I keep it at 1.0105? I might find it difficult to fine tune this as it’s so close to target. I could go a bit lower if that’s okay?
2) the PH used to be around 8.2 & it is now 8.09 and temperature is stays between 80 & 81 F. I think I read PH of 7.7 or more and 77F. Should I adjust these parameters to target too?

Thanks
Sagar
 

Jay Hemdal

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After 4 water changes within 48 hours I’m down from 1.022 to 1.0105 but not yet 1.0090. All fish thankfully are still alive and eating.

NH3 stayed at 0.00 so far even after removing 33% of rocks with corals.

Questions
1) Is the 1.0090 very critical or should I keep it at 1.0105? I might find it difficult to fine tune this as it’s so close to target. I could go a bit lower if that’s okay?
2) the PH used to be around 8.2 & it is now 8.09 and temperature is stays between 80 & 81 F. I think I read PH of 7.7 or more and 77F. Should I adjust these parameters to target too?

Thanks
Sagar
If you can lower the temperature to below 80, that will help. Your specific gravity needs to be below 1.010 - we say shoot for 1.009 in order to ensure you go low enough.
The pH really doesn’t matter as long as it is above 7.4 and below 8.3
Jay
 
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SAM2023

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If you can lower the temperature to below 80, that will help. Your specific gravity needs to be below 1.010 - we say shoot for 1.009 in order to ensure you go low enough.
The pH really doesn’t matter as long as it is above 7.4 and below 8.3
Jay
Hi Jay, I really appreciate your time ongoing feedback & I am happy to report that I did another 15 G water change and got it down exactly to 1.0090. Also lowered the temperature to 78.5 but since I don’t have a chiller not sure if it stays below 80 all the time.
All fish are still okay & eating & moving around.
Magnificent fox has some spots.
Hippo tang (most Effected) shows NO spots.
Only other fish who is showing symptoms of irritation is the emperor.

I believe the 30 day count of hypo begins from the day NO fish shows any spots or symptoms. Waiting for that day.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Hi Jay, I really appreciate your time ongoing feedback & I am happy to report that I did another 15 G water change and got it down exactly to 1.0090. Also lowered the temperature to 78.5 but since I don’t have a chiller not sure if it stays below 80 all the time.
All fish are still okay & eating & moving around.
Magnificent fox has some spots.
Hippo tang (most Effected) shows NO spots.
Only other fish who is showing symptoms of irritation is the emperor.

I believe the 30 day count of hypo begins from the day NO fish shows any spots or symptoms. Waiting for that day.
Yes, I prefer to start counting when all spots are gone, but some people start counting when they hit 1.009

Jay
 

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