Ridgeback1
Community Member
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- Nov 6, 2021
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- Bellingham, WA
- What state or country do you live in
- Washington
My experience with ich management...acknowledging up front that I really have no proof about what caused anything in this experience. There are some potential correlational conclusions, but I wouldn't bet that they are absolutely defensible. Here goes:
TLDR: The Humblefish Jessican peroxide/UV protocol has possibly eradicated ich in my tank.
SETUP: 327 gallon mostly FOWLR tank (and managed as such) with some soft and montipora corals brought over from a 120 gallon reef tank which I dismantled. Live rock, sand, fish, and some inverts also came over. 120 gallon ran four years with zero ich outbreaks (and an AquaBiomics test when they were still in business showed zero ich and I never added any fish or other life to the tank after that test).
ROUND 1: First ich outbreak. There are only two possible sources of the infection: Additional new live rock from a reputable online vendor, or captive bred fish from a reputable online vendor. I did not quarantine either. Based on that the captive bred fish (and all other fish) showed zero symptoms until the outbreak and they were purchased several weeks before the outbreak, I lean towards the live rock being the source (it was incredibly rich live rock--a tremendous amount of life (macroalgae, clams, sponges, etc.)--really impressive). As I note below, there is no way I can truly rule out that the fish weren't the source...for me the timing of the infection is what is driving my conclusion.
Since the tank is so large with lots of live rock and had so many fish and most of them small, there was no way I was catching all the fish and I didn't want to break the tank down.
I pulled what inverts and corals that I could and ran them in a quarantine tank fallow for 72 days. Some inverts that I couldn't find such as nassarius snails remained in the tank. The hyposalinity was devastating--it demolished everything that came in on the live rocks from algae to sponges to clams (but the nitrifying bacteria survived throughout). It was also highly successful at eliminating the ich. In the process I didn't lose a single fish, not even the ones who initially showed infection (it was fairly mild as one would expect of a first round but it included ich-magnets such as three blue tangs). The hyposalinity drop to 1.009 SG was quick enough (48 hours) and I got on it soon enough that the second round of ich swimmers hatched into a hyposaline environment and were killed (that's my hypothesis, anyway).
I am confident in saying that hyposalinity if you run it to the letter (I was testing and adjusting daily and ran it for the full six weeks), will eradicate ich.
I returned to normal salinity at the end of the treatment period. To my surprise, while there was carnage of empty snail shells from snails I couldn't find to transfer, the nassarius snails survived--burying in the sand and hunkering down they made it. Everything seemed healthy for a long time until...
ROUND 2: Several months after I was back to normal and running without ich, another round of ich hit--and this one killed five fish and infected another few which did not die (did not lose any of the ich magnets such as the blue tangs). The only things I added before the outbreak were a clean up crew from a reputable vendor (which included snails and hermit crabs--so things with shells), and, again, captive bred fish. I did do an observational quarantine on the fish, but I did not quarantine the CUC. I can't know for sure, but my guess is the ich came from the CUC since the newly added fish never showed symptoms of ich (which, as I alluded above, I realize is not definitive for declaring them ich-free--they could've harbored it hidden in their gills, or I just missed the signs).
I was unwilling at that point to run hyposalinity again as I had a pretty good invert base and some of the corals had grown enough to encrust on rocks, plus I had an awesome healthy growth of coraline algae which was both beautiful and was making it impossible for nuisance algae to grow. I opted for Jessican's Humblefish peroxide/UV protocol. https://humble.fish/community/threads/peroxide-h2o2-dosing-for-parasites-in-reef-tank.725/
I wasn't expecting to eradicate the ich but I was hopeful that I could suppress it enough to keep it at a non-lethal load. I was going for ich management and trusting that if I kept the load low enough, the fish could manage the mild infections that might come. In the meantime I ordered a DXaquaria parasite test and it came back showing a low level of ich (but no other diseases). To jump to the punchline: After I lost the five fish quickly in the first round of infection, I had some ich spots show up in a subsequent round but no fish died, and then I never saw another symptom. For months the tank has run without any sign of ich and the fish are all healthy. I ordered another DXaquaria test and it came back showing zero ich.
Have I eradicated ich? And was it the Jessican peroxide/UV protocol that did it? I can't know the answer to either question. First, I altered other variables such as soaking food in probiotics. Second, while I followed the peroxide dosing protocol to the letter, I went overboard with UV sterilization. I put sterilizers on the main tank, and one on each sump. Third, the DXaquaria test we can assume was accurate for what it was: The water sample I took had no ich DNA. Does that mean there isn't ich elsewhere in the tank? Who knows.
But, based on what I have to go on--DNA test showing no ich, all fish ich-free since the protocol kicked in, the peroxide dosing now being long discontinued (so I'm not artificially masking active ich with peroxide dosing that kills enough that a critical mass can't get going...although my continued use of UV may be doing that), and that I have since added new fish (after quarantine) and none of them have shown symptoms...I'm concluding that ich has been eradicated and is not just managed. Did the Humblefish protocol or just the massive UV sterilization alone do the trick? I don't know, especially since I have continued to run UV sterilization. But, I conclude as does Jessican: After doing it the ich is gone (or at least seems to be) and I can even add new (quarantined) fish and they remain ich-free.
CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS (take with a grain of salt, again...none of this was a good controlled science experiment):
1. In an attempt at whole-tank ich eradication or management, getting on it at the outset may be important. Hyposalinity will work no matter how far along you are, but if you wait too long you will lose fish that are more heavily infected before you are at hyposalinity. For the peroxide/UV protocol I do not have evidence that it works under a massive infection load because I had it in place immediately after noticing the first round of infection.
2. None of this is a criticism of the TTM or copper isolation treatments--if you can get ALL your fish out of your tank (ALL OF THEM) when you first spot ich and get them into a separate treatment tank, and then run the tank fallow for 72 days, that is ideal as a) We know that works (although both introduce levels of stress), and b) You don't sacrifice non-fish life in the display tank.
3. QUARANTINE EVERYTHING. Highly reputable vendors will say they never hear of ich coming from their products, and while I can't prove my ich came from live rock and CUC, the evidence supports that it did and other reports online support that they can be sources. I would go so far as to say that if you don't have the setup to do quarantine, don't get into the hobby. All of my pain was, well, pain. I will never put any fish, live rock, or hard surface invert (snail, crab) into my tank again without going through a full quarantine (and you can do your protocol of choice--I have been having success with long observation-only quarantines (with copper and such on hand to intervene if need be) and if I ever get another CUC, it will go through a full fallow period in a quarantine tank). I would even say to quarantine fish you buy from quarantining vendors (and, will note that I have in the past bought supposedly quarantined fish and had them introduce ich to a tank I was running at the time). For me, I'm not risking my huge investment and all those fish by trusting that someone else ran a proper quarantine protocol (what I am planning: Buying unquarantined fish and running full quarantine myself...even for captive bred). I realize many here have had success using quarantine vendors and introducing fish directly to their display tanks...so to each his own risk tolerance level.
4. Hyposalinity eradicates ich. Highly recommended if you are OK with nuking everything else but the fish and bacteria (and, apparently, nassarius snails).
5. The Humblefish peroxide/UV protocol can potentially eradicate ich, but I can only say from my experience that it has that potential if you start it very early in the infection cycle. (Side note: I have been keeping FOWLR and reef tanks for 30 years, ranging from 10 gallons to 375 gallons...this is only anecdotal, but I have had far less fish loss when I run UV sterilization).
TLDR: The Humblefish Jessican peroxide/UV protocol has possibly eradicated ich in my tank.
SETUP: 327 gallon mostly FOWLR tank (and managed as such) with some soft and montipora corals brought over from a 120 gallon reef tank which I dismantled. Live rock, sand, fish, and some inverts also came over. 120 gallon ran four years with zero ich outbreaks (and an AquaBiomics test when they were still in business showed zero ich and I never added any fish or other life to the tank after that test).
ROUND 1: First ich outbreak. There are only two possible sources of the infection: Additional new live rock from a reputable online vendor, or captive bred fish from a reputable online vendor. I did not quarantine either. Based on that the captive bred fish (and all other fish) showed zero symptoms until the outbreak and they were purchased several weeks before the outbreak, I lean towards the live rock being the source (it was incredibly rich live rock--a tremendous amount of life (macroalgae, clams, sponges, etc.)--really impressive). As I note below, there is no way I can truly rule out that the fish weren't the source...for me the timing of the infection is what is driving my conclusion.
Since the tank is so large with lots of live rock and had so many fish and most of them small, there was no way I was catching all the fish and I didn't want to break the tank down.
I pulled what inverts and corals that I could and ran them in a quarantine tank fallow for 72 days. Some inverts that I couldn't find such as nassarius snails remained in the tank. The hyposalinity was devastating--it demolished everything that came in on the live rocks from algae to sponges to clams (but the nitrifying bacteria survived throughout). It was also highly successful at eliminating the ich. In the process I didn't lose a single fish, not even the ones who initially showed infection (it was fairly mild as one would expect of a first round but it included ich-magnets such as three blue tangs). The hyposalinity drop to 1.009 SG was quick enough (48 hours) and I got on it soon enough that the second round of ich swimmers hatched into a hyposaline environment and were killed (that's my hypothesis, anyway).
I am confident in saying that hyposalinity if you run it to the letter (I was testing and adjusting daily and ran it for the full six weeks), will eradicate ich.
I returned to normal salinity at the end of the treatment period. To my surprise, while there was carnage of empty snail shells from snails I couldn't find to transfer, the nassarius snails survived--burying in the sand and hunkering down they made it. Everything seemed healthy for a long time until...
ROUND 2: Several months after I was back to normal and running without ich, another round of ich hit--and this one killed five fish and infected another few which did not die (did not lose any of the ich magnets such as the blue tangs). The only things I added before the outbreak were a clean up crew from a reputable vendor (which included snails and hermit crabs--so things with shells), and, again, captive bred fish. I did do an observational quarantine on the fish, but I did not quarantine the CUC. I can't know for sure, but my guess is the ich came from the CUC since the newly added fish never showed symptoms of ich (which, as I alluded above, I realize is not definitive for declaring them ich-free--they could've harbored it hidden in their gills, or I just missed the signs).
I was unwilling at that point to run hyposalinity again as I had a pretty good invert base and some of the corals had grown enough to encrust on rocks, plus I had an awesome healthy growth of coraline algae which was both beautiful and was making it impossible for nuisance algae to grow. I opted for Jessican's Humblefish peroxide/UV protocol. https://humble.fish/community/threads/peroxide-h2o2-dosing-for-parasites-in-reef-tank.725/
I wasn't expecting to eradicate the ich but I was hopeful that I could suppress it enough to keep it at a non-lethal load. I was going for ich management and trusting that if I kept the load low enough, the fish could manage the mild infections that might come. In the meantime I ordered a DXaquaria parasite test and it came back showing a low level of ich (but no other diseases). To jump to the punchline: After I lost the five fish quickly in the first round of infection, I had some ich spots show up in a subsequent round but no fish died, and then I never saw another symptom. For months the tank has run without any sign of ich and the fish are all healthy. I ordered another DXaquaria test and it came back showing zero ich.
Have I eradicated ich? And was it the Jessican peroxide/UV protocol that did it? I can't know the answer to either question. First, I altered other variables such as soaking food in probiotics. Second, while I followed the peroxide dosing protocol to the letter, I went overboard with UV sterilization. I put sterilizers on the main tank, and one on each sump. Third, the DXaquaria test we can assume was accurate for what it was: The water sample I took had no ich DNA. Does that mean there isn't ich elsewhere in the tank? Who knows.
But, based on what I have to go on--DNA test showing no ich, all fish ich-free since the protocol kicked in, the peroxide dosing now being long discontinued (so I'm not artificially masking active ich with peroxide dosing that kills enough that a critical mass can't get going...although my continued use of UV may be doing that), and that I have since added new fish (after quarantine) and none of them have shown symptoms...I'm concluding that ich has been eradicated and is not just managed. Did the Humblefish protocol or just the massive UV sterilization alone do the trick? I don't know, especially since I have continued to run UV sterilization. But, I conclude as does Jessican: After doing it the ich is gone (or at least seems to be) and I can even add new (quarantined) fish and they remain ich-free.
CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS (take with a grain of salt, again...none of this was a good controlled science experiment):
1. In an attempt at whole-tank ich eradication or management, getting on it at the outset may be important. Hyposalinity will work no matter how far along you are, but if you wait too long you will lose fish that are more heavily infected before you are at hyposalinity. For the peroxide/UV protocol I do not have evidence that it works under a massive infection load because I had it in place immediately after noticing the first round of infection.
2. None of this is a criticism of the TTM or copper isolation treatments--if you can get ALL your fish out of your tank (ALL OF THEM) when you first spot ich and get them into a separate treatment tank, and then run the tank fallow for 72 days, that is ideal as a) We know that works (although both introduce levels of stress), and b) You don't sacrifice non-fish life in the display tank.
3. QUARANTINE EVERYTHING. Highly reputable vendors will say they never hear of ich coming from their products, and while I can't prove my ich came from live rock and CUC, the evidence supports that it did and other reports online support that they can be sources. I would go so far as to say that if you don't have the setup to do quarantine, don't get into the hobby. All of my pain was, well, pain. I will never put any fish, live rock, or hard surface invert (snail, crab) into my tank again without going through a full quarantine (and you can do your protocol of choice--I have been having success with long observation-only quarantines (with copper and such on hand to intervene if need be) and if I ever get another CUC, it will go through a full fallow period in a quarantine tank). I would even say to quarantine fish you buy from quarantining vendors (and, will note that I have in the past bought supposedly quarantined fish and had them introduce ich to a tank I was running at the time). For me, I'm not risking my huge investment and all those fish by trusting that someone else ran a proper quarantine protocol (what I am planning: Buying unquarantined fish and running full quarantine myself...even for captive bred). I realize many here have had success using quarantine vendors and introducing fish directly to their display tanks...so to each his own risk tolerance level.
4. Hyposalinity eradicates ich. Highly recommended if you are OK with nuking everything else but the fish and bacteria (and, apparently, nassarius snails).
5. The Humblefish peroxide/UV protocol can potentially eradicate ich, but I can only say from my experience that it has that potential if you start it very early in the infection cycle. (Side note: I have been keeping FOWLR and reef tanks for 30 years, ranging from 10 gallons to 375 gallons...this is only anecdotal, but I have had far less fish loss when I run UV sterilization).
